POPE FRANCIS MODELING IRREVERSIBLE VATICAN II LITURGICAL REFORM IN CONTINUITY
This takes place every Sunday at St. Joseph's. I want to know how wide spread it is across the country. Also, how wide spread is the EF? Are a significant number of Churches ditching all the post VATII nonsense and returning to a sane OF, or are they still playing hippie and pushing Woodstock Catholicism? Most of the Churches I have attended in this diocese seem to be sane. The ones I have attended in WVA and Fla. were normal OF also, except the Priests looked pretty unenthusiatic. I cannot get a measure of how the reform of the reform is going in the big picture.
Our parish had a bilingual Mass on Sunday -- pretty much beginning to end with homily in both languages.One might say that Latin would resolve the modern language problem, but before Vatican II there were parishes based on language. Today it is not uncommon to see two churches within a few blocks of each other for that reason. (Of course, today one has most likely been closed and the parishes combined.)Announcements: Please don't read the entire bulletin to us in either language or both!Also, why not share your beautiful church and liturgy online? It may be far more expensive a proposition that I suppose.
Do Churches in France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Mexico, or anywhere else have regular English Masses?
Latin cannot "resolve the modern language problem" since no one speaks Latin. Parishes for centuries before Vatican II were established along cultural lines. Language was a huge part of this balkanization. French parishes, Polich parishes, Lithuanian parishes - each ethnic group had its own parish and heaven help the poor English-speaking Irish Catholic who wandered by accident into an Italian parish on a Sunday morning.Being a-historical is comfortable, but useless.
It appears Ignotus is back under yet another anonymous. The use of Latin is not "a-historical." We do not use Latin because anyone speaks it (although its use is still wide spread in law and medicine, not to mention in nearly every English or French word spoken), we use it because it recapitulates for us our history and Catholic heritage...which is quite "historical." We use Latin for some of the same reasons we say the Pledge of Allegiance even though we are not a Republic anymore. We may hope and pray that one day we will be a Republic again, just as we hope and pray that Latin will be taught in high schools again.
pin,Evidently some folks have an obsession directed against Latin. No accounting for them (unless it all goes back to toilet-training difficulties).But is it not true that the Mass you say "takes place every Sunday at St. Joseph's" is an OF Mass in English?
Yes, Henry, the Sunday Masses are OF Masses in English. 9:30 and 12:10 are High Mass and 7:45 a.m. and 5 pm are Low Masses.
This "alternate universe" you describe (including the link to a previous post) is a very thoughtful reflection on how the OF can (dare I say should) be influenced by the EF while taking into account the current state of liturgy.Could this be also thought of as organic development by mutual enrichment?
St. Joseph anonymous here. There comes a point when the celebration of the Mass, if too convoluted, is no longer full of grace. Too many changes lead to confusion as to what faithful Mass attenders should do. An unsung Mass in the vernacular can be very full of grace and lead to a deeper appreciation of Christ's sacrifice
Henry, people don't have an obsession directed against Latin. We simply understand that 1) Latin is not constitutive of Catholic identity, 2) Latin doesn't help achieve the two primary goals of liturgy, and 3) Latin was never the universal language of the Church. All three of these silly suggestions are routinely repeated by tose how have, um, er, an obsession directed toward Latin. . .
"People" do not have an obsession directed against Latin, you do, Ignotus. LOL!
Now Pin, let me jump to Ignatz defense here. I don't think he's got an obsession directed against Latin, he's one of those Self Loathing Liberals, so his obsession is against the whole of Traditional Catholicism. Latin just is one loathing amongst many.I'd cry if I found out he was a young Priest with 40 years left to spread hate for the True Faith, but I doubt that's the case.
No, Templar, Ignotus is starting to get a little moss on his horns...LOL!
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