Ecclesia Dei confirms Fellay: "Full communion with SSPX is near."
From Andrea Tornielli, who has been one of the unofficial spokesman for Pope Francis in his pontificate, in an article this morning for La Stampa:
"We are working at this moment in the completion of some aspects of the canonical frame, which will be the Personal Prelature." Archbishop Guido Pozzo, Secretary of the Ecclesia Dei commission, charged with dialogue with the Society of Saint Pius X, confirms [SSPX Superior-General Fellay's words] to Vatican Insider that the stage of full communion with the Lefebvrians is near. The accomplishment of the agreement is now in plain sight, even if some time is still needed.
To answer your question Father: Francis wants the SSPX to be regularized so he can destroy it. It's not rocket science.
desperate for bodies and money!
"If Pope Francis is opposed to tradition, why . . ."
I don't claim to know for sure, but traditional Catholics are familiar with bishops unsympathetic to tradition who establish a single diocesan traditional Latin Mass or personal parish for the purpose of segregating the TLM in a ghetto within the diocese.
The huge Archdiocese of Atlanta looks like (and might be?) such example, with its FSSP personal parish, but (so far as I know) not a single TLM regularly scheduled in its other 160+ parishes--despite the presence of a number of priests who'd like to celebrate it.
The Diocese of Knoxville--one of the country's smallest in its Catholic population--is at the opposite extreme, with its bishop encouraging his seminarians to learn the TLM, and with 9 priests regularly or occasionally celebrating TLMs in a half dozen different locations.
TJM, you always give voice to my darkest fears.
OTOH, with even the most sinister motives I think this is a good thing for the Church. Next is how they will operate within the various US diocese.
Henry, as someone who lives in the Archdiocese of Atlanta, we tried singing parts of the ordinary form in Latin at our parish and the pastor gave it up after a while as parishioners did not sing the parts very well. But maybe that befits a large urban area like Atlanta, which is more liberal than the rest of Georgia (Clinton won our region by nearly 200,000 votes last November). At the same time, some Episcopal parishes manage to live side by side using their old 1928 Book of Common Prayer and the 1979 version. There should be room for both ordinary and Latin form---I'm not one to support just one version of worship, any more than Anglicans or the Orthodox would.
Anon 12:41 I would be surprised if any congregation could sing the Latin Ordinary in the first few months. The basic responses of the congregation, however, should not be too tough. I noticed some people here were a little reluctant to belt it out until they have heard it a few times and enough other folks have joined in. I don't think political affiliation would affect it much, or if it did they would simply find another Mass. In a city as big as Atlanta that should be difficult.
rcg, I have become increasingly cynical because of Pope "Mercy." I never felt this way before this pontificate
rcg, I have become increasingly cynical because of Pope "Mercy." I never felt this way before this pontificate, even when Paul VI was Pope. I didn't like a lot of things he implemented but I never doubted his orthodoxy.
At the little country church we go to on vacation the congregation frequently sings the Kyrie in Greek and the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin. They actually sing these far better than the English hymns. But I guess it's too hard for the "sophisticates" in the big city.
TJM, Since the beginning of Advent, 2016, we have been singing the Greek Kyrie, and the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin. That's in St. Joseph parish in little old Waycross, Ga. in the Diocese of Savannah! Though it won't affect me in my locale, I am still very encouraged to hear that the SSPX personal prelature may be imminent.
Joseph Johnson, that's excellent news. Sounds like your pastor has read Sacrosanctum Concilium and understands it!
TJM, you sound like old Gene Talmadge of the 1930s and 1940s, liked that old county unit system and never cared for the city folks. Interestingly, at Atlanta's Episcopal Cathedral of St. Philip that is just up the street from the Catholic cathedral, their choir often sings Evensong with some Latin. Who would have thought, more Latin at an Anglican church than a Catholic one?!?
I wonder how long it will take Francis to appoint Cardinal Kasper as head of the SSPX once it is fully intergrated into the Church.
The SSPX has been in an ecclesial and canonical limbo - neither officially in schismatic status, nor objectively in full communion. The Societies churches were established within the jurisdiction of dioceses without the approval being granted by the local bishop to do so. Granting the SSPX their own prelature is the best way to bring them back under the authority of the Holy Father. Bringing local ordinaries into the picture would have complicated things and perhaps even prevented this normalization of relations from coming about, or at least being realized at this time .
There is irony in all this in that the conception of the personal prelature structure came out of Vatican II(Presbyterorum Ordinis) and was enacted into law by Pope Paul VI in Ecclesiae Sanctae.
Anonymous at 5:17 (Kavanaugh),
Well since I am a Republican, and not a racist Democrat like Talmadge, and live in Chicago, we have very little in common, other than unlike Democrats, I respect people who do not live in "sophisticated" big cities. But you should be proud of the fact that your Party, the Dems, are still keeping Blacks on the welfare plantation AND are exterminating them through your Sacrament of Abortion
Henry you are spot on, many bishops want to corral us into "ghettos" and throw us a TLM and some Latin to shut us up and will not let it spread to the rest of their diocese, it is a common dirty trick by Novus Ordo bishops. I for one do not trust Bergoglio he is very very cunning a Jesuit and Argentine to boot! CUIDADO everybody!!!!! Watch for a trick to destroy Fellay and the S.S.P.X. remember what happened to the Franciscans of the Immaculate.
I will believe the Holy Father's intentions are innocent when he answers the dubia.
Gene Talmadge famous quotes:
"You got three friends in this world, Jesus Christ, the Sears and Roebuck catalog, and Gene Talmadge."
"Yeah, I stole...but, I stole for ya'll."
Maybe I can put my 2 cents in as someone who really doesn't have a dog in the fight. I've commented to many/most probably know that I am Eastern Orthodox, so maybe it's good with someone who is familiar with Catholicism and is on the outside looking in to give their POV?
I've followed the SSPX situation since Benedict was pope with passing interest. I have to admit, coming back into the Roman fold (or whatever you want to call it) under Francis and his tumultuous papacy, especially surrounding Amoris, is pretty puzzling to me.
I would like to be more optimistic but it's kind of hard not to see the writing on the wall vis-a-vis the Knights of Malta/Burks/FotI/the family synods. It seems pretty clear to me what he wants to do. Like it or not, the SSPX is really the only large scale opposition to Francis and the "Novus Ordo church" so Francis is doing pulling the whole "Keep your friends close, but enemies closer" deal.
Anyways just my input :)
A bit off the subject at hand, but I can't help but notice the irony over Nancy Pelosi's opposition to Trump's choice for the Supreme Court---gold ol Nancy says the appointment would be bad for children and that Gorsuch is outside the legal mainstream...and this from a woman with a 100% pro-choice voting record....Houston, we have a problem when people like her are defining what the "legal mainstream" is!!!
Archbishop Cordileone needs to remember what his name means: Lion Hearted and excommunicate this dreadful, evil apostate
TJM, I am with you---it is long overdue for her. LONG, LONG overdue, even if she represents one of the most heavily Democratic districts on earth. Trump's promise to appoint strict constructionists to the court was a critical factor in his victory, getting voters who might disagree with him on other issues such as trade and taxes. A Clinton win would have been not just a political disaster but a legal one too, filling the courts with judges who like to legislate from the bench. Of course the proof is in the pudding---Republicans have been betrayed before by some choices (see, Souder, David, and Blackmun, Harry among others)
With good ol Nancy, I would give her 48 hours to publicly recant her views on abortion and same-sex marriage---her refusal to do so would be "hasta la vista"...
Pelosi has worked under a number of powerful politicians and congresssmen...this is how she got where she is.
Pelosi's husband is very wealthy and has a number of businesses in which he uses no union labor. The evil, corrupt media NEVER mentions that
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