The National Catholic Reporter, of all papers, has a good analysis of Pope Francis’ peace making efforts to end Russia’s war on Ukraine.
The Ukrainians, to include the Catholic Patriarch there, who should have been named a cardinal, and would be a good papal candidate, and God willing, a non cardinal could be elected the next go around, have been quite critical of Pope Francis’ appeasement of the Russians to gain peace.
It really is a part of this Pope backwardism, his walking us to the 1970’s, that is the blame as His Holiness, as the article states, is trying to recapture Pope Paul VI’s appeasement of Communism, which Vatican II did to a certain extent.
We see this also with the pope’s appeasement of Red China’s dictator who wants to name his own bishops and the pope humiliating himself by caving in to a recent illegal appointment.
But connecting the dots, we see how Pope Francis’ backward trajectory has caused such polarization not only for the poor people of Ukraine, but for Catholics throughout the world, especially by pretending that development of doctrine had not occurred with the Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI era in the Church. This pope prefers to go back to a time prior to these two great popes, the mid 70’s, to accomplish his backward goals, especially his antipathy and animus towards Traditionalists which boarders on the obsessive.
Read the NCR report by pressing the title:
Concern lingers among Ukrainians after Vatican's peace mission to Moscow
Sound byte:
Criticism has been strong among Ukrainians, two-thirds of whom have lost family members in the war, and who are now indignant, with so many bridges destroyed both metaphorically and literally, to hear Ukrainians and Russians referred to as "sister-nations."
Iryna Biskub, a Catholic and a linguistics professor at Lesya Ukrainka Volyn National University, said persistent attempts by Francis to reach out to Moscow have created problems for local church members, with Mass attendance dropping in her northwestern home City of Lutsk.
"The peace efforts aren't being taken seriously now — after so many debatable statements by the pope, Ukrainians no longer believe the Vatican has any serious capacity to affect this war," Biskub told NCR.
27 comments:
It is a shame if Ukrainians are not attending Mass over this. Even if the Pope is an idiot they should not let his foolishness stand between them and God. As with Latin Mass Catholics, it even gives them something to confess.
Father McDonald, thank you for having posted the article in question. The article has highlighted Pope Francis' role as a peacemaker who has acted in good faith.
Therefore, it is a shame that there are Catholics, in Ukraine, and beyond, who do not appreciate the above. Said folks expect Pope Francis to march in lockstep with their opinions in regard to how to end the war in Ukraine.
In their minds, Pope Francis must say/do "XYZ." Otherwise, in preposterous fashion, they attack Pope Francis.
The article reported that in regard to his peace efforts, there are Ukrainians who believe that Pope Francis does not "fully understand their pain."
However, article noted the following from Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, leader of Ukrainian Greek Catholics:
In a late June interview with Ukraine's Glavkom agency, Shevchuk said he understood that, far from "representing moral neutrality," Francis wished to be a "herald of good news to the Ukrainian people," and also understood "who the aggressor and victim are."
===============================================================================
Speaking of Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk: Three months ago, he praised Pope Francis' efforts to establish peace in Ukraine.
-- Leader of Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church: Pope Francis offers unique voice for peace
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2023-04/major-archbishop-shevchuk-shares-ukrainian-greek-catholic-easter.html
He expressed gratitude to Pope Francis for being a singular voice in working toward peace.
In an interview with Vatican Radio - Vatican News, Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk of Kyiv-Halyc, expressed this, noting his gratitude to Pope Francis for his constant closeness and appeals, and, in particular, for offering a unique voice on how to find peaceful solutions.
Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk:
"And the Holy Father speaks not only to Ukrainians but also on behalf of Ukrainians to the world. And each time that he is trying to announce to the world the tragedy which is happening in Ukraine, for us, his words are lifegiving. Because of the worldwide solidarity, we were able to withstand with the consequences of this war."
"Thanks be to God and thanks to the Holy Father, this humanitarian crisis, provoked by the war, the humanitarian tragedy did not deteriorate. So each prayer, each appeal of the Holy Father to the world for us, is a lifegiving message."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mass attendance in Lutsk has dropped supposedly as the result of Pope Francis' peacemaking efforts.
If that claim is accurate...
It is preposterous that Catholics would shun the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in regard to the above.
That reminds me of news reports in 2011 A.D, when certain Catholics expressed tremendous anger in regard to the then-new English translation of the Mass. There were Catholics who announced that they would not attend Mass as the result of the new translation.
It is pathetic that there are Catholics who find excuses...utterly ridiculous excuses...to abandon Holy Mass.
I find it unbelievable that there are Catholics who have abandoned the Mass via their disapproval of Pope Francis' peacemaking efforts...over his keeping the line of communication open in regard to Moscow.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I am teetering on the brink of walking away myself. I cannot abide this guy any longer. He is a scourge on Holy Mother Church and his Bishop, in my diocese, is AWOL...as are the overwhelming majority of Bishops in the US as far as I can tell. How could this guy become Pope? Awful doesn't begin to describe his pontificate.
The following is from last year, at the height of Pope Francis' supposed softness toward Russia...as well as his supposed lack of having felt Ukraine's pain:
-- Pope Francis ‘begs’ Putin to stop ‘spiral of violence and death’
-- Pope condemns Russia’s annexation of four Ukrainian regions and calls on President Zelenskyy to be open to any ‘serious peace proposal’.
Pope Francis appealed directly to Vladimir Putin to stop the “spiral of violence and death” in Ukraine, saying he is haunted by “rivers of blood and tears”.
"The head of the Catholic Church also condemned the annexation of four regions of Ukraine...during an address dedicated to Ukraine in St Peter’s Square."
Francis has often condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the death it has caused, but it was the first time he made a direct personal appeal to Putin.
“My appeal goes above all to the president of the Russian Federation, begging him to stop this spiral of violence and death, even out of love for his own people,” Francis said.
“On the other side, pained by the enormous suffering of the Ukrainian population following the aggression it suffered, I address an equally hopeful appeal to the president of Ukraine to be open to a serious peace proposal."
“I strongly deplore the grave situation that has been created in the last few days, with more actions that are contrary to the principles of international law,” Francis said in a clear reference to the annexation.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT, this hits the mail on the head! Both dictators of Russia and China see this pope as weak, divisive and ineffectual. They see the chaos he has revived by going backwards. They see the anger and rage he has fomented in Ukraine and the underground Church in China which he threw under the bus along with traditional Catholics. It is all quite sad.
Father McDonald, all that I know is that Pope Francis enjoys the love and respect among the overwhelming amount of God's Holy People.
Although I am an horrific sinner, in regard to the above, I stand with my brothers and sisters in the Faith.
Also, as I had noted on this thread, Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, leader of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, has praised Pope Francis' closeness to Ukrainians. Major Archbishop Shevchuk has also praised Pope Francis' holy and tremendous efforts to rescue Ukrainians from the horrific war in question.
Unfortunately, there are folks within, and without Ukraine, who do not recognize that reality.
In regard to Pope Francis critics, I turn to the following from the final lines of Pope Benedict XVI's book that was published post-mortem:.
"At the end of my reflections, I want to thank Pope Francis for everything he does to constantly display the light of God, which, even today, has not faded. Thank you, Holy Father!"
Father McDonald, I stand with Pope Benedict XVI's outstanding positive assessment of Pope Francis. I stand with Pope Benedict XVI, who had granted his "unconditional reverence and obedience" to Pope Francis.
Finally, in my diocese, we are moving forward in positive fashion with Pope Francis. His Holiness has not moved us backward to the 1970s.
Father McDonald, thank you for having allowed me to respond to you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Hey, Mark Thomas, chew on this statement from your Vice President Kamala Harris, a real braintrust:
“When we invest in clean energy and electric vehicles and reduce population, more of our children can breathe clean air and drink clean water,” Harris told a crowd at Coppin State University in Baltimore, Maryland, in a speech centered on the Inflation Reduction Act.
Notice the "reduce population." I bet PF agrees with that.
Talk about delusional!
"Father McDonald, all that I know is that Pope Francis enjoys the love and respect among the overwhelming amount of God's Holy People."
not really
Pope Francis has not lost sight of the fact that war is hell. and that war is evil—sometimes perhaps a necessary evil, but still an evil. Being the child of an English father and a German mother who met and married as a result of WWII, I grew up hearing perspectives on that war from each side of the “enemy divide,” and as a result have a militant revulsion for war and violence (both the Allies and the Axis powers committed war crimes by the way, but the Allies were never tried because they won). Bombs, artillery, and guns do not discriminate. They kill, maim, and destroy whatever and whomever they target, often innocent civilians. The longer a war continues, the more entrenched each side becomes as atrocities committed by each side fuel the desire to avenge.
This war in Ukraine could last for many more years with little headway by either side as more atrocities continue to accumulate. I for one applaud Pope Francis’s effort to find a better way and so, I believe, should every Catholic. Call him naïve, call him quixotic; they said and did worse to Jesus. At least Pope Francis is trying to love up to “Blessed are the peacemakers.” In sum, I agree with mark Thomas.
That said, when dealing with the likes of Putin, one must be gentle as doves but wise as serpents.
Father McDonald said..."Both dictators of Russia and China see this pope as weak, divisive and ineffectual."
As a friend and follower of Jesus Christ, Pope Francis' true strength — holy strength — lies in the worldly perception that His Holiness is weak.
Pope Francis is, far and away, the world's moral voice. That served him well in regard to the following:
It is via his spiritual strength (his moral authority) that the supposed "weak...ineffectual" Pope Francis was able to secure the return to Ukraine of prisoners held by Russia.
President Zelenskiyy has placed his confidence in Pope Francis to obtain from Russia the release of thousands of Ukrainian children taken by the Russians. President Zelenskiyy would not have entrusted such an important task to a supposed weak, ineffectual, person.
Conversely, President Zelenskiyy has recognized that Pope Francis is blessed with the tremendous moral authority required to accomplish said important task.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
The Russian Federation will fight as long as necessary to achieve its aims. Ukraine is already on the lobsing side: millions of its citizens are refugees, téns of thousands of its soldiers dead, Many more maimed; its infrastructure including its agricultural treasures demaged or destroyed. The latest effort to dislodge the agressor Russians cost Zelensky upwards of 30 thousand dead soldiers. It is estimated the Ukrainians managed to recapture oly about 500 sq km's. The cost in lives is unspeakably great. That is why Pope Francis and others are calling for a cease fire and peace negotiations. The Pope is on the right side of the issue this time.
Zelensky should call elections to ascertain the will of the Ukrainian people. His term of office expired. Lét the people decide.
Perhaps Wilfred Owen said it best in his WWI Poem “Strange Meeting”:
It seemed that out of battle I escaped
Down some profound dull tunnel, long since scooped
Through granites which titanic wars had groined.
Yet also there encumbered sleepers groaned,
Too fast in thought or death to be bestirred.
Then, as I probed them, one sprang up, and stared
With piteous recognition in fixed eyes,
Lifting distressful hands, as if to bless.
And by his smile, I knew that sullen hall,—
By his dead smile I knew we stood in Hell.
With a thousand fears that vision's face was grained;
Yet no blood reached there from the upper ground,
And no guns thumped, or down the flues made moan.
“Strange friend,” I said, “here is no cause to mourn.”
“None,” said that other, “save the undone years,
The hopelessness. Whatever hope is yours,
Was my life also; I went hunting wild
After the wildest beauty in the world,
Which lies not calm in eyes, or braided hair,
But mocks the steady running of the hour,
And if it grieves, grieves richlier than here.
For by my glee might many men have laughed,
And of my weeping something had been left,
Which must die now. I mean the truth untold,
The pity of war, the pity war distilled.
Now men will go content with what we spoiled.
Or, discontent, boil bloody, and be spilled.
They will be swift with swiftness of the tigress.
None will break ranks, though nations trek from progress.
Courage was mine, and I had mystery;
Wisdom was mine, and I had mastery:
To miss the march of this retreating world
Into vain citadels that are not walled.
Then, when much blood had clogged their chariot-wheels,
I would go up and wash them from sweet wells,
Even with truths that lie too deep for taint.
I would have poured my spirit without stint
But not through wounds; not on the cess of war.
Foreheads of men have bled where no wounds were.
“I am the enemy you killed, my friend.
I knew you in this dark: for so you frowned
Yesterday through me as you jabbed and killed.
I parried; but my hands were loath and cold.
Let us sleep now. . . .”
In regard to critics of Pope Francis related to the topic at hand:
There are folks who wish to flood Ukraine was such things as cluster munitions. Then there is Pope Francis. He is a true peacemaker.
In regard to Pope Francis' critics: From the beginning of the war in Ukraine to date, who among them has done more to work for a peaceful resolution to the war in question?
What critic of Pope Francis has done more than His Holiness to obtain such humanitarian victories as the return to Ukraine of Ukrainian prisoners held by Russia?
Pope Francis has prayed repeatedly for Ukrainians. Pope Francis has, time again, denounced the invasion of Ukraine.
Pope Francis has, time again, called attention to the sufferings that Ukrainians have experienced via the war in question.
How many among Pope Francis' critics have ensured the delivery of food, medicine, as well as additional necessities, to Ukrainians?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas,
What food and medicine has your golden calf provided? How many refugees has the Vatican taken in?
As an aside when is PF going to stop war on Faithful Catholics?
Father McDonald said..."Both dictators of Russia and China see this pope as...divisive..."
Father McDonald, I agree that Pope Francis is divisive. Pope Francis is divisive among those who have chosen to view him that way. Pope Francis is divisive in the same manner in which Popes throughout my lifetime have been divisive.
He is divisive to folks who do not wish to encounter teachings related to immigrants/refugees, the poor, economic fairness, abortion, artificial birth control, marriage, death penalty, deployment of armaments, all-male priesthood...He is divisive to those who are keen to reject the Magisterium.
He is divisive in the same manner that Pope Benedict XVI was/is divisive.
Pope Benedict XVI enraged those who did not wish to embrace teachings related to the holiness and spiritual efficacy of the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI, abortion, condoms, marriage, the environment, refugees/immigrants, economic justice, war...
Pope Benedict XVI enraged those who despised and rejected his unrelenting support of Vatican II. He is divisive among those who have insisted that he covered-up for priests who had engaged in sexual abuse.
Popes Saint John Paul II, Saint Paul VI, as well as Saint John XXIII, have been dismissed as horrific, divisive Popes.
Pope Venerable Pius XII has been identified and denounced as "Hitler's Pope."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
It is a shame that many Catholics bloggers critical of Pope Francis in regard to the war in Ukraine have not featured such uplifting news stories as follows:
Unlike said folks, I respect and appreciate that Father McDonald has always allowed opinions, as well as the postings of news stories, that have differed with his opinions.
To return to Pope Francis and his determination to reduce/eliminate the sufferings of Ukrainians: Here is an example of that:
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatican-city/news/2022-03/pope-francis-ukraine-refugees-donation-war.html
-- Pope Francis’ closeness to Ukrainian refugees
"Through the Office of Papal Charities, Pope Francis has sent medical supplies to the Basilica of Santa Sofia in Rome – the national Church of the Ukrainian Catholic community in Italy."
"For several days now, trucks laden with food and basic necessities have been departing to bring aid for the people who are suffering the terrible effects of the war."
"The Pope’s gesture comes in response to a request from the Ukrainian community for medical supplies. The Pope’s gift contained syringes, bandages, disinfectants, and other products.
"For days now, vehicles full of boxes with supplies have been lined up at the Basilica waiting to unload the supplies they have collected, including clothes, canned foods, children’s toys, and other emergency supplies.
"The donations will arrive in a few days in Lviv, the Ukrainian city closest to the Polish border. Ukrainian truckers in Rome have made their trucks available to bring aid to their countrymen and women in need."
"That’s not all, said Cardinal Krajewski: "The Vatican is ready to help those in need."
"He explains that, thanks to the support of the Office of Papal Charities, the apostolic nuncios who live in the most difficult parts of the world also receive sums of money to support the local populations.
"The most recent aid went to the nuncio in Romania, who is supporting Ukrainian refugees housed in various structures of the ecclesial network."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Charity is given without expectation of approval or even appropriate use of the gift.
The war in Ukraine is a fight between rival thugs. It is to be hoped that at least one, if not both, emerge from this more mature. The West provoked the war by supporting western interests in an area the Russians consider their historical province. NATO membership of the Baltic and the Black Sea counties will essentially cut Russia’s nuts off and, in their minds, justify additional aggression.
The Ukraine is using the cluster munitions we gave them. I will admit to being out of that game at the technical level for a bit, but the children who may stumble on any UXO in the coming years will be the ones who survived Russian attacks on maternity hospitals and daycare centers. Cluster munitions suck but that is a distinction without difference.
Europe may have arrogantly bitten off more than it should have and is laying the groundwork for another world war. On the other hand Europe culture has an unequaled civilizing effect on the rest of the world because they, too, are recovering heathen barbarians who have successfully created a method for remaining distinct cultures that often clash but produce beautiful fruit. A fundamental question for this American is: do laws protect criminals, too? Does thief or prostitute deserve protection under the law? I think so. So siding with The Ukrainian is not an endorsement of their behaviour, but of law.
Our Pope is trying, bless him, but he has a contra-European approach to governing eclectic groups and representing the Church. It would be a cheap shot to say that his Hagan Lio! attitude is a pretentious cover for not knowing what right looks like. But his resources are, essentially, unlimited. So he should recruit help people who have some likelihood of success. Humility helps with that search.
Who is being referred to "Patriarch", HB Sviatoslav?
By "mass attendance", do we literally mean the Mass or Divine Liturgy?
Ukraine literally means borderland. Ukrainians typically find the reference to "The Ukraine" to be insulting.
Ukraine has been abused by the Russian Government almost indefinitely. "Sisterhood" will forever be a tough pill to swallow.
My question for Mark Thomas: Why Pope Francis? Why this fondness? He's just a man, nothing more. He's a man elected by men with political aspirations of every sort. I'm just trying to understand what compels you to apologetics there.
ByzRus,
There have always been bootlickers. Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini had their share
ByzRus, when i explain the relationship of Russia to Ukraine i compare it to the husband who beats his wife but keeps begging her to return.
ByzRus said..."My question for Mark Thomas: Why Pope Francis? Why this fondness? I'm just trying to understand what compels you to apologetics there."
Thank you for your questions. I am happy to answer your questions.
I wonder, though, about the following:
Have you asked certain folks here as to why they lack fondness for Pope Francis? Have you asked said folks as why, at every turn, they are compelled to denounce Pope Francis?
Just wondering.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
ByzRus said..."My question for Mark Thomas: Why Pope Francis? Why this fondness? He's just a man, nothing more."
ByzRus, thank you for your questions.
Should I not have fondness for Pope Francis? Should I not have fondness for a man of God?
As to his being "just a man."
As he is a man, created in God's image, does that alone not imbue Jorge Bergoglio with tremendous dignity and worth?
Beyond that, of all men on earth, God has raised Jorge Bergoglio to serve as Pope. To Pope Francis alone, God has entrusted the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.
God has empowered Pope Francis to teach, govern, and sanctify God's Holy People.
The True Church has guaranteed that thanks to the promise of Jesus Christ, Pope Francis' Teaching Authority will not fail. The True Church has guaranteed that Pope Francis has been blessed with never-failing faith.
He who hears Pope Francis hears Jesus Christ.
Therefore, in line with Pope Benedict XVI, I am blessed and privileged to grant to Pope Francis my "unconditional reverence and obedience."
ByzRus, thank you for your questions.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT: I appreciate your defense of Pope Francis and the institution of the papacy. However, no human being should be placed so high on a pedestal that the one defending the person of the pope thinks that the pope should never be critiqued or criticized. Seawall rightly says that the veil has been removed. Pope Francis has begun the forces that will change Catholic doctrine on morality. This will lead to a change in dogmatic doctrine also. It will lead to blessing of LGBTQ….”marriages” as well as allowing LGBTQ+++ordinations to the priesthood, diaconate and the order of bishops. This is serious stuff and it may take an ecumenical council the clean up the mess. Pope Francis is responsible for this if it happens and it appears the trajectory is for it to happen.
Mark Thomas,
Thank you for your reply.
I cannot speak for others. However, for myself:
Have you asked certain folks here as to why they lack fondness for Pope Francis?
*True, I'm not fond of the current HF.
I find him to be:
*Divisive
*Radical
*Driven by ideology
*Not merciful, or selectively so - it comes off as a ruse
*While not necessarily a laughingstock of the Orthodox, he's basically been written off in those circles
*He seems too cultural, as opposed to counter-cultural
*Pope Benedict's funeral seemed like an attempt to be purposely offensive
He has contributed to:
*Radicalization
*Balkanization
*Behavior bordering on heretical
*Centralization of power to the detriment of the petrine ministry
*Suppression of discussion/dissent
*Rewarding adherence to cult of personality
In the Church currently:
*One's value is determined based upon one's acceptance of current ideology
*Liturgy has been weaponized, again
*Adherents of tradition are regularly maligned
*Youth who adhere to the TLM are falling victim to a "fad"
*Certain Bishops conferences are conducting their affairs in ways that, to me, are perilously close to heresy
Have you asked said folks as why, at every turn, they are compelled to denounce Pope Francis?
*People "denounce" as you call it, statements and actions that seem contrary to the faith they were taught as children and have lived throughout their lives
*Personally, I find it difficult to laud much of what emanates from the Vatican these days. It's all just a puzzlement while fundamentals, particularly liturgy, are allowed to languish
I'm fond of people and things, but, that fondness has it's limits. I liked Pope Benedict, I was very fond of him, I delighted in seeing him in action, I liked his peaceful demeanor, I liked how he wrote, I liked how he wrote as though he was speaking directly to me and so on.
On the flip side, I felt he didn't adequately support the TLM and liturgical movement that was his passion. He contributed a bit to balkanization where such isn't necessary. What goes on in the Roman Church is bewildering to an Easterner. This parish is bells and smells, the next one over is puppets and bongo drums. Chant mostly seems anathema wherever you go. Pope Benedict had a golden opportunity to realign the Church with her traditions and we would have been almost one generation removed from its inception. That didn't happen and, by appearances, things are not better off, and while there is growth, there is tremendous shrinkage cancelling out that growth.
Man is man, warts, flaws and all. If man was more divine than human, particularly a pope, then he would be sitting up next to St. Peter, not sharing the increasingly foul air the rest of us are breathing.
Mark Thomas,
Perhaps read the attached if you are so inclined. God provides guidance to a conclave, it does not mean said conclave will hear, understand and/or action such guidance. Additionally, guidance doesn't override free will of man. My sense is you ascribe greater divinity to the election of a pope than perhaps is the case.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/does-god-pick-the-pope
Father McDonald said..."However, no human being should be placed so high on a pedestal that the one defending the person of the pope thinks that the pope should never be critiqued or criticized."
Father McDonald, we have the right to make known, in charitable fashion, to Church authorities, our concerns, as well as spiritual needs. What Peter Seewald did went far beyond that.
Peter Seewald issued unsubstantiated claims designed to "prove" that Pope Francis despises Pope Benedict XVI.
The interviewer said to Peter Seewald:
"In your latest book, Benedict's Legacy, you quote the words of praise that Francis had for his predecessor. He praised him as a "great pope": "Great for the strength of his intelligence, his contribution to theology, great for his love for the Church and for people, great for his virtues and his faith."
Seewald, trapped by his having to acknowledge that Pope Francis had always praised Pope Benedict XVI, replied:
"Today, however, one must ask oneself whether Bergoglio's confessions were just lip service, or even smokescreens."
To accept Seewald's claim in question is to believe that Pope Francis is a liar.
It is to believe that Pope Francis' wonderful relationship with, and positive assessment of then-Pope Emeritus, was a lie, a facade concocted by Pope Francis.
Peter Seewald's attack against Pope Francis is vile and disgraceful.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
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