The first Mass is one of those Modern Masses that allows for many various options, a unity in diversity and no need for permission from the Vatican every two years to celebrate Mass this way.
The TLM Mass in Savannah, needs Vatican approval, cannot be advertised in the bulletin and once approval is granted, after the time limit, the bishop has to reapply for permission. Under Pope Francis, the desired effect is to elimnate the TLM as it is seen as creating liturgical division in the Church and is not a part of the one unique expression of the liturgy of the post-Vatican II Church.
Given the part of the world where the Modern Mass is celebrated exclusively with all its variations, options, choices, etc, except kneeling for Holy Communion and ad oriented which are forbidden or frowned upon, only 5% to 25% of Catholics actually attend the Modern Mass. Of those who do attend the Modern Mass, the most, but not all, enjoy liturgical abuses but don’t know that liturgical abuses are liturgical abuses. As long as it yanks their chains, they like it, no matter what.
Yet, the TLM in the eyes of the Vatican is the biggest liturgical problem in the Church. Go figure!
25 comments:
Pope Leo XIV has insisted that in regard to the TLM, the situation is "complicated." He clearly views the issue with concern.
His Holiness outraged various "traditionalists" when he suggested that said folks would do well to embrace the Holy Mass of Saint Paul VI. That is a solid solution that he has presented.
Pope Leo XIV is very much in line with the following from Pope Francis (requiescat in pace):
"Whoever wishes to celebrate with devotion according to earlier forms of the liturgy can find in the reformed Roman Missal according to Vatican Council II all the elements of the Roman Rite, in particular the Roman Canon which constitutes one of its more distinctive elements."
Unfortunately, a powerful anti-Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI attitude prevails within Trad Inc. Said Mass is viewed as the "Novus Bogus"...the Bugnini Freemason Mass concocted supposedly with the aid of six Protestants.
There also is the unfortunate reality that various Churchmen are not keen to accommodate the TLM in line with Church teaching.
May His Holiness receive our prayers and cooperation as he deals with the "complicated" situation in question.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
The photo of the two Jesuits celebrating Mass is definitely the Novous Bogus. You misquote Leo about the TLM. Best you read this as an update:
https://www.mondayvatican.com/vatican/leo-xiv-endings-and-beginnings
I did not misquote Pope Leo XIV.
Anyway, I will stand happily with Pope Leo XIV in regard to whatever he may determine in regard to the TLM
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
From the link:
"Leo XIV’s approach will likely be middle-of-the-road."
Various folks will view that as the continuation of the supposed destructive path that our Popes have followed since Vatican II.
I do not view Pope Leo XIV as a "middle-of-the-road" Pope.
His Holiness will teach, govern, and sanctify us in line with God's will and teachings. Pope Leo XIV will not shepherd us via such labels right, left, middle-of-the-road. He will move us forward in line with Vatican II/Holy Tradition.
Reform in continuity.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Incredible vestments Father! Waiting, but not holding my breath, for the Extraordinary Consistory of Cardinals in January. The Liturgy is on the agenda.
MT Suit, you are so lacking in self-awareness. It is YOU who label people as right-wing, etc. Do us a favor, get help.
Francis was a nasty, uncharitable man, unfit to tie Pope Benedict's sandle straps. Get over your Man crush on that guy.
I'm not sure where MT gets this idea that the pope's decisions on prudential matters are always in line with God's will.
Certainly no Catholic catechism.
It's obvious that a pope can be very permissive or very restrictive with regards to permissions for the TLM or other liturgies. To say that there is no way a pope could choose a path that is "middle-of-the-road" is to deify his decision making to such a degree that he becomes little more than God's automaton.
Nick
In regard to what we can expect from Pope Leo XIV:
Father McDonald, on April 26th, posted the following from Bishop Barron: This is the manner in which Pope Leo XIV's Pontificate will also conclude.
Guaranteed.
Bishop Barron:
"From What I find perhaps most intriguing about Pope Francis is what he didn’t do...many on the Catholic left commenced to see him as the long-awaited liberal savior, the one who would revive the postconciliar dream that had been punctured by John Paul II and Benedict XVI.
"Francis, they were convinced, would, at long last, bring us married priests, women priests, and gay marriage, a liberalizing of the Church’s teachings on abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, and birth control.
"Well, he delivered on precisely none of it.
"The great Catholic surrender to the demands of the culture didn’t happen on his watch, and it was amusing in the extreme to watch the mainstream liberal Catholic media try to come to terms with this.
"In fact, abortion had no stronger opponent than Francis, who frequently compared it to the “hiring of a hitman.”
"And he was a strenuous critic of what he often called “gender ideology,” the imposition of which on developing nations he termed “ideological colonization.”
=======
Pope Leo XIV will bless us as well with a holy, orthodox Pontificate. His approach will not be middle-of-the-road"...right, or left. His approach will prove Catholic.
Factions within, and without the Church, will attempt to define His Holiness. But that will fail.
In line with Pope Francis' (requiescat in pace), "the great Catholic surrender to the demands of the culture" will not happen on Pope Leo XIV's watch.
Guaranteed.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Michael Matt's prediction in regard to the Consistory:
(Welcome to the dark, depressing conspiratorial world of Trad Inc.)
https://x.com/Michael_J_Matt/status/2005826391825068477
=======
Summorum Pontificum was designed to end the TLM via a reform of the reform...mutual enrichment.
Pope Benedict XVI believed that an "enriched" Novus Ordo would satisfy "traditionalists" while allowing the Church to move forward with the "revolutionary" Council.
Pope Leo XIV will revive Pope Benedict XVI's "trick" to satisfy "traditionalists" via a reform of the reform. His Holiness will authorize a Latin, ad orientem Novus Ordo to serve as the "traditional" Mass.
Pope Leo XIV believes that said Mass will placate "traditionalists." They get their "traditional" Latin Mass. Pope Leo XIV moves everybody else forward in line with Vatican II.
Pope Leo XIV destroys the TLM once and for all.
But Pope Leo XIV's trick will backfire as Michael Matt stated that "traditionalists aren't gonna put up with that."
That is at the video's 5:36 mark.
The result is that "traditionalists will fight harder than ever," according to Michael Matt.
=======
Some responses posted to Michael Matt's X page.
-- "Zero chance. If he were going to propose that, a lot more preparatory work would be needed."
-- He’s worse than Francis bc he’s dressed in trad vestments, smiling, soft spoken, but following the path of Francis as he surrounds himself w/gay or pro gay bishops & cardinals, allowed gay couples to fornicate in St. Peter’s, uses “rigid” to describe trads, while TLM disappears."
-- "Leo XIV will attempt to thread the needle (and fail miserably) by tossing in a little Latin here and there inside the Novus Ordo, thinking that that will “fix the problem” and “unify” the church.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
There's that chasuble again with the Queen of Hearts playing card decoration, the style of which Saint Charles Borromeo said represents a "break with Tradition." Further he specified the minimum size to which he expected chasubles to conform. They were to be at least 51 inches (130cm) wide and, at the back, they were to reach down almost to the heels of the wearer.”
Oh well, so much for "tradition"...
What did he say about gothic vestments that nearly drag the ground, go way over the priest’s arms, ie, Holy Rood vestments and albs with wide sleeves that drag on the altar moving Hosts and Their Particles to the ground not to mention knocking over Chalices of Precious Blood? And now let’s talk about modern design kitsch on those gothic chasubles…
It is time to cut the Gordian Knot and remove all restrictions on the celebration of the old Mass, placing it on an equal status as the new Mass. Until this is done, recalcitrant bishops and pastors will find a hundred and one excuses why it cannot be celebrated.
Yes, all those traditional elements can be found in the Missal but the reality is that they are effectively suppressed by the bishops. Until all restrictions on how to celebrate the new Mass are removed, the claim that the desires of those who want a more devote and traditional form of the Mass can be found in the new Missal is dishonest.
What is truly disgusting about the "priest" celebrating "Mass" in his fatigues, is that not so long ago there were priests in the battlefield celebrating the TLM properly vested with the altar properly dressed. These Novus Bogus guys are narcissists, it's all about them!
This will drive the All Highest K over the edge! The Pope's brother was at a party at Mar-A-Lago!
https://dailycaller.com/2025/12/30/trump-popes-leo-brother-mar-a-lago/
It's too hard to do it that way, obviously.
Nick
Is this a bad time to bring up the oracle's tremendous, groundbreaking proclamation that all religions are a way to arrive at God?
Nick
TeeJayEmm - Would that be the same brother who, in a PUBLIC FaceBook post, referred to Nancy Pelosi as a "nasty c--t" and claimed that anti-Trump Democrats should "be arrested and tried for subversion and even treason against the U.S.A." You know, the one who shared a post on FaceBook that said, ""Your child isn't trans, you're just a sh—ty parent."
So, no, your favorite Prevost brother's partying with the only president in US history to be convicted of 37 felonies doesn't drive me anywhere - except to pity him and those, like you, who think like him.
I'll note that the Mass was celebrated during a two-week search operation for missing and deceased migrants along the Mexican border. Burying the dead--you know, a corporal work of mercy. It would have been nice if they had brought proper vestments, but if I were forced to choose between observing rubrics and doing the works of mercy, I'd go with the works of mercy (Mt 12:7).
Also, "Conventual Franciscans" (if "Conventional Franciscans" was meant as a joke, it went over my head).
I'll note that the TLM was celebrated with proper vestments and altar dressings during wars on battlefields where there was plenty of fighting and dying - quit making excuses for these slobs. They could have packed appropriately.
All Highest K, Nancy Pelosi abused her office and somehow beat Wall Street and stock professionals, so she may not be your best example. And your human vegetable, Biden, old Blacks they were not Black if they didn't vote Democrat. Trans is just another fantasy of you and your Leftist pals. These kids are mentally ill and should be given care and treatment, not affirmation of their mental illness. Hate to burst your bubble, but all of those Lawfare cases against President Trump have either gone by-by or soon will be. The Democratic Party over time has morphed into a crime organization and is currently moving into the direction of a terrorist organization, engaging in Insurrection in major cities, to keep their felonious, illegal alien voters in the fold. You really are an empty cassock
Even a simpleton should get this one example of the crumbling lawfare pursued by the Party of Intrinsic Evil:
A New York state appellate court has thrown out the $464 million civil penalty a Manhattan judge had imposed against President Trump in February 2024. The appeals judges said the fine was “excessive” and violated the Constitution’s Eighth Amendment, which prohibits cruel and unusual punishments.
They tossed it entirely, a stunning rebuke to both New York attorney general Letitia James, who brought the case, and Judge Arthur Engoron, who ruled against Trump.
TeeJayEmm - My post wasn't about Pelosi or Biden or Trans kids or the felonies Trump was convicted in in a court of law. It wasn't about illegal voters or James or Engoron.
It was about the pope's brother who, sadly, chooses to post vulgar attacks against people he doesn't like. I am not at all surprised that you have ignored what I posted and dug deep into your reservoir of fears and over-hashed complaints to make such a silly non-response. You and Louis Prevost should get together at Mar-al-Lago with Trump. You apparently have lots in common.
Deacon Fritz, a Mass was not necessary to do what you say the two Jesuits are doing. Since they didn’t have the proper items required for a Mass, funeral or otherwise, they could have just as easily celebrated the Funeral Liturgy outside of Mass with the blessing of the place of burial and commendation of the faithful departed migrants. They could have gone to a nearby church, before or after, for a Funeral Mass properly celebrated. Those migrants would have deserved that. As a priest and you as a deacon, I am sure, have celebrated graveside services, “the rite of commital” without having a Mass at the site of burial.
Deacon Fritz, I hope you are well and a blessed Christmastide and Happy New Year.
Post a Comment