I don’t know what to make of this. It just goes to show how polarizing Pope Francis’ papacy is and will continue to be until the Lord calls His Holiness to his personal judgment and just reward.
Regis Martin has always struck me as a middle of the road charismatic, not a traditionalist by any measure of the word, especially liturgically.
I don’t like this kind of thing, though. The Church is more divided now between progressives/liberals and conservative/traditionalists than in any period since Vatican II.
For as many people who want Pope Francis to go to his just reward or resign, there are as many or more who wish he would be pope forever and make the Church into post-Catholicism. The polarization is unhealthy; it’s political and it harms the mission of the Church which is Christ and His Divine Love and Truth, both of which are never mutually exclusive or seperated.
My Advice? Step Down
Regis Martin
25 comments:
"I don't like this kind of thing, though."
Father, I am not sure what you mean. If what you mean is that you don't like to hear for calls for the pope to resign, I have to respectfully disagree.
Oh sure, we all know the pope isn't seeking your advice, mine or anyone else who disagrees with him...but that's not the point. This pope has just snowballed the process that has been in place since Vatican II. Now again, I am not necessarily denouncing Vatican II, although there IS much to criticize about the Council, how it was conducted and some subtle things that found their way into the documents. But the ultimate result was the decline we are continuing to witness.
I have had to spend my entire life watching the Church in decline. While most of Vatican II doesn't represent any huge departure from what the Catholic Church always was, there can be NO DENYING that the intent of some of its leaders was to radically change the Church. The callous and abrupt imposition (not introduction) of the Novus Ordo in 1969 was a huge departure point. Any Catholic from 1960 would walk into the average parish today wouldn't recognize that he was in a Catholic church!
It's all been incremental. I REPEAT, INCREMENTALISM IS THE WEAPON the "progressives" or "liberals" or whatever you want to call them have used. As time marches on, they are growing more brazen and the changes are going to be bolder and bolder. Even Pope Benedict, God bless Him, whose pontificate was the ONLY respite in this madness, showed us just how divided we were and he made his enemies even MORE determined that they would suffocate any kind of restoration he might bring about. While most of us here were very happy about Summorum Pontificum, have we forgotten about how so many "mainstream" Catholic pundits and Catholic publications wailed and screamed about how terrible it was that this pope was "imposing the past" upon the Church? Is our memory really that short?
Benedict is gone from us. Francis is unleashed. He has been waiting patiently for this moment and he has seized it and will continue to do so. If, IF we get another pope, I strongly suspect he will be even more far out and brazen than Francis. The determination of the Catholic deconstructionists and "progressives" to take the Church apart and rebuild it (hence their true god, Baphomet, has become a globalist symbol) that determination is picking up speed.
Which brings me back to your comment about how you don't like "this sort of thing."
I'm sorry Father, but the aftermath of Vatican II, the hamstringing of popes John Paul II and Benedict (and the likely murder of John Paul I) and now the shameless manipulations and confusions of Francis (and the continuing debate about whether he was even legitimately elected)...these are all symptoms of unrest, chaos, disruption. These are not the fruits of the Holy Spirit. IF WE WERE FOLLOWING GOD'S PATH AS A CHURCH, WE WOULD BE EXPERIENCING A VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF CHURCH THAN WHAT WE ARE STUCK WITH TODAY. Again, chaos, disruption, confusion, uncertainty, drops in religious vocations, sexual abuse, perversion in the ranks of the clergy, incrementally deconstructing the discipline of the sacraments...THESE ARE NOT THE FRUITS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Give Dr. Martin credit for the courage of his convictions. What else COULD any decent Catholic say? "Oh Thank You your Holiness for all this confusion"? "Dear Lord, thank you for blessing mankind with such a divided Church and all the uncertainty and disruption that comes with it"?
It's 2024. We've been hearing about
the "fruits" of Vatican II
the "New Springtime"
the "New Evangelization"
the "Renewal"
since 1964.
70 years of lies.
Sooner or later, people know bullsh_t when they smell it. And our Church stinks to high heaven.
I’m Catholic and my wife and her family are Protestant. With the Pope’s recent authorization to allow the blessing of same-sex couples, it’s fun defending the Church’s orthodox teachings in regard to Protestant critiques and the apostasy of the Pope and other modernist clergy. Yet, as Edward Pentin discussed in a conference last Fall, perhaps this is God’s will to expose the apostasy in the Church after decades of modernist rot.
This is not the first time that Regis Martin has issued a vile attack against the Vicar of Christ. Regis Martin has a history of having misrepresented Pope Francis. Also, this is not the first time that Regis Martin has, in preposterous fashion, called upon Pope Francis to resign as Pope.
In May 2023 A.D., Regis accomplished all of the above via a Crisis Magazine (Crisis Magazine...that figures) hit piece directed at His Holiness. Via that hit piece, Regis Martin supported Bishop Strickland's attacks against Pope Francis.
Regis Martin declared: "In setting out the pathology report, where does one begin? Why not begin with the Deposit of Faith, the depletion of which appears to have been a programmatic theme of this pontificate from the beginning. (Bishop Strickland of Tyler, Texas, a fearless fellow, is not the first to take notice, but he needs brother bishops to step up and do likewise.)"
His above support for Bishop Strickland's vile attack against Pope Francis tells me all that I need to know in regard to Regis Martin's dreadful, unreliable assessment of Pope Francis/Pope Francis' orthodoxy.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT, your outrageous judgmentalism and lack of inclusivity of those who critique Pope Francis is breathtaking and an insult to the teachings of Francis which is inclusive to todos, todo, todos. It appears to me that your vile attack on Dr. Regis Martin is really a vile attack on Pope Francis Church of inclusivity and love.
The resignation of Pope Francis would be making the same mistake as Pope Benedict did when he resigned. It would be a terrible development to have the office the Holy See become subject to the same political processes as secular governments. The failure of both men was in leadership. They had no support from the Vatican hierarchy to maintain the core of Catholic doctrine; they were, or are, dependent on people with divergent agenda to the Law of God. This is only a problem if one takes no action to solve it. The clergy sex abuse crisis had a snowball effect because they couldn’t bring themselves to take action. The first two actions recommended by the author are only starters that should be repeated through much of the Church. The second two are a weak man’s way out.
Regis Martin declared that Pope Francis is "all wet." How nice.
Regis Martin stated that "the declaration signed and delivered by him is flat out wrong.
Regis Martin declared his support in regard to Archbishop Tomash Peta's, as well as Auxiliary Bishop Athanasius Schneider's claim that Fiducia Supplicans is a "great deception...directly and seriously contradict Divine Revelation and the uninterrupted, bimillennial doctrine and practice of the Catholic Church...a serious abuse of the most Holy Name of God..."
But Holy Mother Church's teachings stand in opposition to the above. The True Church has guaranteed that thanks to the promise of Jesus Christ, Pope Francis has been blessed with never-failing faith.
The True Church teaches that it is impossible for Pope Francis to teach error, let alone grave error.
In opposition to Regis Martin, I believe, for example, the following from Pope Venerable Pius XII (Encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi):
"Christ enlightens His whole Church...it is He who enriches pastors and teachers and above all His Vicar on earth with the supernatural gifts of knowledge, understanding and wisdom, so that they may loyally preserve the treasury of faith, defend it vigorously, and explain it and confirm it with reverence and devotion."
I pray that Regis Martin (as well as those within his camp in question) will embrace the True Church's above teachings.
Holy Mother Church has guaranteed the following:
We can embrace with unrelenting confidence and serenity the fact that Pope Francis' God-given authority to teach, govern, and sanctify us is unassailable.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I guess that Regis Martin has rejected the following from Cardinal Müller:
-- No one has right to demand a pope’s resignation
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- People can disagree about problems and the best ways to resolve them, but no one should launch a formal accusation against a pope much less ask for his resignation, German Cardinal Gerhard Muller said.
"Such public attacks put into question the church's credibility, he said in an interview with the Italian website Vatican Insider Nov. 27."
"Asked about Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano's public call for Pope Francis to resign because he felt the pope knew about the alleged sex abuse involving U.S. Archbishop Theodore E. McCarrick's but still failed to act, Cardinal Muller said, "No one has a right to indict the pope or ask him to resign."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald, in regard to Fiducia Supplicans: Regis Martin would do well to embrace the two bishops over you, as well my bishop.
Your bishops, as well as my bishop, in communion with Pope Francis, have made it clear that Fiducia Supplicans is orthodox.
The Church teaches that unlike Regis Martin, "the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome. Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me", the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms."
Holy Mother Church has assured us that the correct interpretation of Fiducia Supplicans is supplied by Pope Francis, as well as bishops who share that teaching. Therefore, we are called to reject Regis Martin's rendering of Fiducia Supplicans.
Fortunately, Pope Francis has been blessed with great mercy and patience. Therefore, I am hopeful that in regard to the Declaration, that Rome will help such folks as Regis Martin to overcome opposition to beautiful, orthodox, Fiducia Supplicans.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald, the following is opinion: That I launched a "vile attack" against Regis Martin. I reject your opinion in question. But you expressed your opinion.
In turn, one may disagree with my opinion/description that Regis Martin had launched a "vile attack against Pope Francis.
But what is undeniable is that Regis Martin's characterization of Fiducia Supplicans is contrary to Church teaching.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
As of last week, 1000 Bishops worldwide have rejected Fiducia Supplicans.
Two Catholic Bishops in Africa have, in separate occasions, called on the people of God under their pastoral care to reject, ignore, and forget Fiducia Supplicans, the declaration that the Vatican Dicastery for the Doctrine of Faith (DDF) released permitting the blessing of “same-sex couples” and couples in other “irregular situations”.
In the statement to “all Priests and Religious men and women” in Kenya’s Wote Diocese he issued on December 27, Bishop Paul Kariuki Njiru says that the Vatican Declaration released on December 18 “should be rejected in totality and we faithfully uphold the Gospel teachings and Catholic traditional teachings on Marriage and sexuality”.
Earlier, on December 24, Bishop Martin Mtumbuka of Karonga Diocese in Malawi called upon the people of God in his Episcopal See to “forget and ignore this controversial and apparently blasphemous declaration in its entirety.”
Bishop Mtumbuka, who was presiding over Christmas Vigil Mass at St. Anne’s Parish of Karonga Diocese shared what he termed his honest reflection on Fiducia Supplicans “even if by doing so, I’m reflecting publicly on a document signed by the Holy Father.”
“But, I have to, because it is important that you faithful of this Diocese, entrusted to my pastoral care by the same Holy Father are guided, are supported, and are strengthened at this moment,” he added.
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The Malawian Catholic Bishop posed, “Was this letter written to please homosexuals and their promoters? We don’t know. Can the Church depart from its rightful path simply to please a certain people who live in immoral unions? If yes, why could this be done?”
“Do pastors do things like this in good faith? Or was this document written mainly to gain cheap popularity?” he further posed, adding, “It would seem in many parts of the world, certainly many people have celebrated this document as a sign of progress in the church, and the popularity of its drafters has certainly increased.”
Bishop Mtumbuka went on to highlight what he termed “our major concerns” with Fiducia Supplicans, saying it “looks to us like a heresy; it reads like a heresy; and its effects a heresy.”
He explained, “The document asks us to bless two people of same sex as individuals, but not as a couple. So, these two people of same sex who the previous night slept together like a couple, and present themselves to us as a couple are blessed as individuals, but they leave our presence as a couple; they go to their homes as a couple; they sleep in the same bed as a couple; but the document says they’re not blessed as a couple, although they appear to have been blessed like a couple. How could this be not changing the authentic teaching of the Church?”
“It’s very hard for me to give you, the faithful of this Diocese, why the Holy Father signed this document,” the Malawian Catholic Bishop said.
Mark Thomas, for all of the words he throws around, fails to acknowledge that Martin was practicing parrhesia and synodality. He's just hagan-ing the lio!
Nick
I am interested in observing as to how His Holiness will deal with opposition to Fiducia Supplicans.
Pope Francis is not, by far, the first Pope to deal with opposition to Church teaching.
In The Last Testament book/interview with then-Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, Peter Seewald noted the opposition within, and without the Church, that Pope Benedict XVI had experienced.
Peter Seewald said of Pope Benedict XVI, "Many times, the behavior of his brothers in the episcopacy amounted to non-compliance, as did that of some in the Vatican’s governmental apparatus."
"Relentless criticism generated the countless cover stories and articles in the media that assailed Ratzinger."
"The besieged pontiff responded by saying that ‘If a Pope is only getting applause, he has to ask himself whether or not he is doing things right.’"
============
Archbishop Georg Gänswein noted as well the tremendous difficulties that had plagued Pope Benedict XVI.
ROME – Retired Pope Benedict XVI’s longtime personal secretary has given an interview in which he says he believes the devil was working against Benedict throughout his papacy, but the scandals which erupted during his reign had nothing to do with his historic resignation.
Speaking to the Italian newspaper La Reppublica, German Archbishop Georg Gänswein said the word “scandal” was perhaps “a bit strong” to describe the many crises that erupted during Benedict XVI’s papacy, but that “it’s true that during the pontificate there were many problems.”
“It’s clear, he always tries to touch, to hit where the nerves are exposed and do the most damage,” he said, saying he could often feel the devil at work, and, “I felt him very against Pope Benedict.”
===========
In particular, Summorum Pontificum had experienced widespread opposition among bishops.
More than a few "traditionalists" noted that publicly, at least, Pope Benedict XVI had done little, if anything, to respond to the widespread opposition that had greeted SP.
Unlike the situation in regard to Summorum Pontificum, a great many bishops have responded well to Fiducia Supplicans. Therefore, unlike that which Pope Benedict XVI had experienced with SP, Pope Francis has the following in his favor:
Pope Francis been blessed with a fine base of support in regard to the launch of Fiducia Supplicans.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Interesting counterpoint to the Doom-And-Gloom that so often flows here.
George Weigel in "First Things" writes:
"First, the U.S. bishops are among the most loyal hierarchies in the world—an order of magnitude more loyal to Pope Francis and the Apostolic See than the German episcopate, which is currently defying the pope’s orders to cease-and-desist with implementing a new and heterodox form of ecclesiastical governance.
Second, for all its difficulties and challenges, the American Church is the liveliest, most vital local Church in the developed world. Period. It is the local Church that has taken most seriously the Second Vatican Council, as authoritatively interpreted by Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Its seminaries are the best in the Western world. U.S. Catholicism’s intellectual life is robust, dynamically orthodox, and culture-enriching—unlike Catholic intellectual life in those large swathes of Western Europe where “Follow the Zeitgeist to Mordor” is the order of the day.
Third, U.S. Catholicism is evangelically vibrant, living what Lamb describes as the pope’s call “to bring the Christian message into the world” far more energetically than the Church in Italy—or Argentina. Catholic campus ministry in the U.S. is experiencing a golden age, and FOCUS missionaries (a fruit of World Youth Day 1993 in Denver) now bring Christocentric evangelical dynamism to 193 campuses in six countries. Catholic schools in our inner-urban areas are effective instruments for empowering the poor (another priority of the pope’s). Catholic crisis pregnancy centers extend divine mercy in a very tangible way. And anyone who has experienced the doldrums of parish life in other parts of the world must be impressed by the vitality of U.S. Catholic parishes, even as they struggle to claw back the ground lost during the Plague."
Peruvian bishop rejects Fiducia Supplicans, calls it contradictory to Divine revelation.
Bishop Rafael Escudero Lopez-Brea: "This document harms the communion of the Church, as such blessings directly and seriously contradict Divine revelation and the uninterrupted doctrine and practice of the Catholic Church, including the recent magisterium of Pope Francis, which is why there are no quotations throughout the Declaration that support the previous magisterium. In its 2021 Responsum, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith told us, with the Holy Father’s signature, that “The Church does not have, nor can she have, the power to bless unions of persons of the same sex.”
Bishop of Eparchy of Passaic, Kurt Burnette: Fiducia Supplicans has no application to us.
Fourteen comments, most of which show a degree of thoughtfulness and diverse thinking. They certainly demonstrate room for disagreement...with one glaring exception: Six of those comments are cringeworthy, ad nauseum combinations of fan fiction and cut-and-paste quote salads, demonstrating any lack of individuality or original thinking, most of which follow each other before anyone else can even respond.
It's very sad to watch mentally ill people publicly talking to themselves.
When a person classes those who disagree with him or her as being "mentally ill," that person is revealing the weakness of his position, a serious lack of charity, and deep frustration in being unable to make everything conform to his or her views and preferences.
Father Kavanaugh, thank you for the information in regard to George Weigel's positive assessment of the Church in the United States. George Weigel, at least when he has issued harsh assessments of Pope Francis, has been cited here as a man to be taken seriously.
There are plenty of folks here who, for years, have insisted that the Church in the United States is all but spiritually, as well as liturgically, dead.
Father Kavanaugh, may the remainder of Christmastide remain blessed for you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father Kavanaugh,
This is about more than disagreements and you know it. You can try to shove my observation into a box and label it, but there are a number of people here, some of whom disagree with me about a number of issues who are fed up with the verbose, inane nonsense of the drivelmeister.
Am I being uncharitable? Maybe. But I've noticed a number of people have greatly reduced their participation on this blog because of the absurd, predictable blather they have to sift through to read anything sensible.
AND Father Kavanaugh,
Please let me add: I've got no beef with you. I'm sure you read my comment and probably thought, "what makes you think YOUR comments are so sensible?" or something along those lines. And it's true, I am as obnoxious as the worst of them. But I DO like reading the posts Father McDonald posts here, his comments and the comments of the others. The other annoyances seem to have just gotten more expansive and are getting increasingly tedious to wade through.
Jerome, No, I don't "know" that this is more than disagreement.
You, I suspect, are quite convinced that Pope Francis is a disaster, and that the blessing of gay couples is a tragic departure from everything that is good and holy. You see apostasy around every corner. You state emphatically, "...there can be NO DENYING that the intent of some of its leaders was to radically change the Church" and you maintain that Pope John Paul I was "likely murdered." There's more than a hint of paranoia afoot. And I don't agree with either contention.
On the other hand, regarding FD, there are any number of bishops who have noted, as the bishop of Savannah has, that, "The declaration does not make any change or amendment to the theology of the Sacrament of Marriage."
It may be your view that those who see it as Bishop Parkes does are either sucking up, or they are afraid of being cast out into the darkness to wail and gnash their teeth if they speak against. I would disagree with that assessment and suggest they are taking a reasoned position after reading what FD actually says.
As for blessing gay couples, I, and every priest who ever stood at the altar or at the presider's chair to give a blessing, has blessed gay couples. We've also blessed straight people in adulterous relationships. We've blessed those guilty of extortion and embezzlement, of oppressing the poor and defrauding laborers of their wages. Why do we do this? Because these are the people who come to church.
To quote Pope Francis, the Church is a field hospital. An article in America magazine said this, "By calling the church a “field hospital,” Pope Francis calls us to radically rethink ecclesial life. He is challenging all of us to give priority to the wounded. This means placing the needs of others before our own. The “field hospital church” is the antithesis of the “self-referential church.” It is a term that triggers the imagination, forcing us to rethink our identity, mission and our life together as disciples of Jesus Christ."
Jesus was questioned and attacked and condemned because He reached out to the people who were living on the periphery. His approach wasn't pleasing to the groups that wanted to maintain the status quo. But, it WAS His approach.
Hey Father, now that you can read my mind, I'll just shut up and let you do the talking for me!
Jerome - I read your comments, so I don't have to read you mind. Heck, I even QUOTE your comments. JPI was murdered? Really?
I'm not interested in doing the talking for you. You can choose to speak for yourself or not. But, should you choose to do so, don't presume that those you hear/read your comments are going to agree or that they are somehow obliged not to respond.
Gee Father, wouldn't that be rather presumptuous of me?
The big difference between SP and this train wreck is many Bishops looked at SP as a threat to their power and authority, Many including our bishop at the time threw up road blocks to SP to mainly prove their authority including all kinds of latin "tests" to "insure" that the priest new latin. I mean how dare the pope give any authority to a local priest!
This train wreck is just plain WRONG on so many moral counts lest alone divisive. You can quote the texts all you want but the perception will prevail that it is a blessing for gay married couples and before very long it will be turned into a marriage blessing to be used in an a "marriage " ceremony.
So much of what goes on today in the mass is due to priests and bishops stretching what is allowed and or just plain ignoring the "fine print" cases in point
Communion in the hand, pushed until the pope gave in out of frustration
Turned around altars, never called for but spirit of V2
Girl servers, instruction read "when faced with an INSURMOUNTABLE shortage of eligible males girls may fill in the gaps. Lo and behold within weeks every parish in the country had a shortage, just overnight.
and the list goes on
This will be used to create out of whole cloth a gay marriage ceremony before long and you will continue to quote the fine print.
Golly gosh, Jerome - You are presumptuous. You can change - if you want.
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