I haven't seen any real comment on this from orthodox or heterodox Catholics.
I must say that it sounds like 1970's thinking to me but I might be wrong.
How bad could this be???????
THE CELEBRATION OF THE FAITH: AN ENCULTURED LITURGY
“Evangelization with joy becomes beauty in the liturgy,
as part of our daily concern to spread goodness” (EG, 24)
125. The celebration of the faith must take place through inculturation so that it may be an expression of one’s own religious experience and of the bond of communion of the community that celebrates it. An inculturated liturgy will also be a sounding board for the struggles and aspirations of the communities and a transforming impulse towards a “land without evils.”
126. The following should be kept in mind:
a) A process of discernment is needed regarding the rites, symbols and styles of celebration of indigenous cultures in contact with nature, which need to be integrated into the liturgical and sacramental ritual. It is necessary to be attentive to grasp the true meaning of symbols that transcends the merely aesthetic and folkloric, especially in Christian initiation and marriage. It is suggested that the celebrations should be festive, with their own music and dances, using indigenous languages and clothing, in communion with nature and with the community. A liturgy that responds to their own culture so that it may be the source and summit of their Christian life (cf. SC 10) and linked to their struggles, sufferings and joys.
b) The sacraments must be a source of life and a remedy accessible to all (cf. EG 47), especially the poor (cf. EG 200). We are asked [it is necessary] to overcome the rigidity of a discipline that excludes and alienates, and practice pastoral sensitivity that accompanies and integrates (cf. AL 297, 312).
c) Communities find it difficult to celebrate the Eucharist frequently because of the lack of priests. “The Church draws her life from the Eucharist” and the Eucharist builds the Church. Therefore, instead of leaving the communities without the Eucharist, change is requested in the criteria for selecting and preparing ministers authorized to celebrate the Eucharist.
d) In accordance with a “sound ‘decentralization’” of the Church (cf. EG 16) the communities request that the Episcopal Conferences adapt the Eucharistic rite to their cultures.
e) The communities ask for a greater appreciation, accompaniment and promotion of the piety with which the poor and simple people express their faith through images, symbols, traditions, rites and other sacramentals. All this happens through community associations that organize various events such as prayers, pilgrimages, visits to shrines, processions and festivals celebrating the patron saint. This is evidence of a wisdom and spirituality that forms a real theological locus with great evangelizing potential (cf. EG 122-126).
I’m calling BS. What makes anyone think that it will be easier to find a married man to move into a remote area because he is married is stupid. Is it easier to convince two people of something than one? Sheesh.
Alternatively, if they are simply wanting Catholic Church franchises operated by local owner/operators who don’t really devote themselves totally to Christ then also BS. Nonsense on stilts.
In other words, give the poor benighted natives something that (in our opinion) they can relate to and understand, given their backwardness and lack of sophistication. We're not being condescending, of course. It's called inculturation.
Oh, and in Europe and north America, the plebs only understand short simple sentences and pop music, so that's what we'll give them. Condescension? No, inculturation.
However, in Japan, which has a culture which sets great store by formality and ritual we'll foist on them an informal, chatty 'liturgy'. You see, they are sophisticated enough to appreciate all the benefits of modern western culture.
It does smack of what Pope Benedict decried, the manufacturing of liturgy and creativity run amuck that makes the liturgy horizontal and not vertical.
It also smacks of clericalism on steroids which seems to be the form that progressives since Vatican II have shoved down the throats of everyone in the Church.
It really is sickening.
I hope this photo is a joke. If not, and if I had been there, I would have raised Cain with these apostates. I may have used by Irish heritage to hit them over the head with a wiskey bottle or punched their lights out. Inculturation
It is pretty obvious that this synod is nothing more than a pretext for ordaining married men. Open the door a little and it will soon be wide open, a typical tactic from Vatican 2 documents. Thanks to Vatican 2, there is a huge shortage of priests, and there will continue to be until the Church teaches the faith, including through a proper liturgy, not the Novus Ordo which for the past 50 years has done its best to destroy the Catholic Faith.
Makes me ill. Selling out (again)... protestantizing of the Church by shepherds... shop around to you find the right "cultural" fit... they have pumped out the Bride of Christ, and are intent on destroying the Church... for me, this so-called "papacy" of Francis has proven to me that the Church has been hijacked, and any Catholics who remain will find themselves in a non-Catholic Church... that's why I am ill... shepherds are either complicit, or cowards... mostly they are THRILLED with the destruction!
I don't even want to attend Mass while these monsters destroy it!
How's that for a reaction?
Father McDonald said..."It does smack of what Pope Benedict decried, the manufacturing of liturgy and creativity run amuck that makes the liturgy horizontal and not vertical."
That didn't prevent Pope Benedict XVI from having offered the Creole Mass.
Catholic News Service, December 12, 2011 A.D.
By Cindy Wooden and Carol Glatz
Catholic News Service
VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Celebrating the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe and confirming he will travel to Mexico and Cuba in the spring, Pope Benedict XVI called on the people of Latin America to hold firm to their faith.
The Mass was celebrated in Spanish, Portuguese and Latin with several musical pieces — including the Kyrie and Gloria — drawn from the “Misa Criolla,” a 1964 composition in Spanish that includes elements of Latin American folk music.
Latin American musicians sang and played traditional instruments such as the bombo drum, flute, guitars and various percussion instruments like goat nails.
Preceding the Mass, young people from Latin America and the Caribbean walked down the central aisle carrying flags from their home country; some wore colorful traditional costumes.
Melanesians from Fiji sing and dance in indigenous fashion to a rhythmic beat during the Gospel procession at Pope Benedict XVI's closing mass in Australia.
Pope Benedict XVI, 2008 A.D., Mass in Australia.
Melanesians from Fiji sing and dance to a rhythmic beat during the Gospel procession:
An Indian headdress for Mass? Uh, I think not. It certainly is not appropriate to be wearing any headgear while engaging in the consecration. You don't see a bishop wearing a miter or even a zuchetto at that point of the Mass.
As for Victor's claim that the synod is a pretext for ordaining married men...I am tempted to ask him, "And your point is?" Married priests exist in the Eastern rite of the Catholic Church; heck, we even have some ex-Episcopal priests who are married. Wasn't St. Peter married? It is not as if we are talking about women's ordination here, which is not open to debate. People can have different views as to whether married men should be ordained.
v"I haven't seen any real comment on this from orthodox or heterodox Catholics."
Rorate Caeli offered today a vile, hateful comment in regard to the Special Assembly of the Synod of Bishops for the Pan-Amazon Region.
In regard to the issue of married priests and the Latin Church:
Pope Venerable Pius XII opened that door when he permitted married Lutheran clergy to be ordained as Catholic priests.
Put your ideas in order, offer a rational argument and please, please, stop giving hyperlinks which no-one can click on, even were they inclined to do so.
Your argument seems to boil down to: 'Pope X said Y and Pope W said A and Pope G said H and so on ad nauseam.' It's not a grown-up perspective, is tedious and in the end is futile.
More fracturing of our Church; more "interpretation" instead of settled theology on what the Mass is and what we are doing there; less salvation, more entertainment.
Satan must be rolling around on the ground laughing hysterically at how easy it's all been.
God bless (and help us!)
Mr. Nolan, the topic at hand concerns liturgical inculturation.
Pope Benedict, as well as Pope Saint John Paul II, paved the way in regard to liturgical inculturation.
As to the link that I posted, I am sorry that you are unable to cut and paste the following:
For more than five minutes during the Gospel Procession, Pope Benedict XVI presided over
liturgical dancing to rhythmic music as Melanesians from Fiji, dressed in "hula" fashion.
Pope Benedict XVI promoted profound liturgical inculturation.
In turn, the bishops at the Special Assembly for the Pan-Amazon Region are following the path paved by Pope Benedict XVI.
That also applies to married priests, as Pope Venerable Pius XII opened that door when he permitted married Lutheran ministers to be ordained as Catholic priests (via the Western Church).
The thought that one even dares tinker with the Liturgy, it is the primary way that we encounter Christ. This enculturation, seems to me, everything to make Christ even more veiled than He already is at the vast majority of western parishes.
I have read the Rorate article which MT castigates as 'vile' and 'hateful', two of his favourite adjectives, which he applies to everyone who has the temerity to criticize PF. It quotes extensively from the official documents and draws inferences which are, to any intelligent person, at least reasonable and worthy of consideration given the events of the last six years.
After consideration, one is free to dispute the conclusions. Perhaps Mark might analyse the article and say, point by point, where and why he disagrees with it.
Regarding his observations concerning Benedict XVI I would ask him to consider the following. When popes make overseas trips the liturgical arrangements are made by the host country. The pope acquiesces out of politeness. No-one can forget JP II's Mass in Rio where the young women 'liturgical dancers' had their skirts lifted by a blustery wind, leaving little to the imagination.
Once Benedict had replaced Piero Marini with Guido Marini, the latter liaised ahead and made it clear what the Pope wanted. This was particularly evident on his trip to Britain in 2010. Those responsible for the music had commissioned the usual suspects to produce 1980s sacro-pop. Guido effectively vetoed this, a well as making it clear that the pope would be using Latin from the Preface to the Pater Noster.
MT is a two-faced hypocrite who still hasn't apologized for his calumnies against Pope Benedict, a great intellectual and spiritual leader, in contrast to the dim bulb he adores and worships which is a sin. He isn't worth your time or effort. Father Z is right: do not feed the trolls.
John Nolan said.."I have read the Rorate article which MT castigates as 'vile' and 'hateful', two of his favourite adjectives, which he applies to everyone who has the temerity to criticize PF. It quotes extensively from the official documents and draws inferences which are, to any intelligent person, at least reasonable and worthy of consideration given the events of the last six years."
The headline from the Rorate Caeli article:
"Francis' CRAP - Church Report on Amazon Problems: the "Amazon Synod" Document does not rise to the level of toilet paper.
From the article:
"...toilet paper is destined to a much higher and dignified use than the cellulose which will be wasted with this document."
That is the typical of Rorate Caeli...another in a long line of vile, hateful trash that Rorate has hurled, literally from the time that he was presented publicly as Pope to date, at the Vicar of Christ, His Holiness, Pope Francis.
When they aren't hurling foul, hateful comments at Pope Francis, Rorate Caeli promotes outright lies designed to defame the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis.
Rorate Caeli has forgotten its 2012 A.D. post...
"Love the Pope!" - no ifs, and no buts:"
But with Pope Francis, Rorate Caeli has taken the following route:
"Hate the Pope!" - no ifs, and no buts:"
"...therefore, in order to demonstrate our love for the Pope, it is necessary to obey him...because whoever is holy cannot dissent from the Pope."
— Pope Saint Pius X, November 18, 1912 A.D.
Obey the pope in what? If he ordered you to have sex with a man, MT, would you do it?
I now really believe that in some type of play out in the spiritual realm the Church must endure a "Peter becoming Judas." Francis is Judas.
Sad thing is, the shepherds are doing NOTHING, or extremely weak mewling before him.
MT doesn't seem to realize that Rorate Caeli is a forum, not a person. Contributors are free to air their own views. It is avowedly traditionalist, but apart from that does not have an editorial policy. It also circulates articles from other sources, for example a detailed critique of the Instrumentum Laboris for the Amazon Synod by Roberto de Mattei which simply cannot be dismissed out of hand, and an article about changes to the Lord's prayer by Melanie McDonagh in the Spectator. No-one is obliged to agree with the views expressed, but MT's playground insults do not constitute a reasoned counter-argument.
Pope Pius X had an exalted (perhaps overexalted) view of the papacy but even he was (I hope) not suggesting that a pope has to be obeyed in everything, nor that popes are above criticism. MT is guilty of what someone recently described as 'Mottramism' (see Brideshead Revisited).
It is undeniable that PF, by his words and actions, has brought down criticism on his own head from precisely those people who would be extremely loath to criticize any pope. They cannot be compared with the liberal critics of JP II and B XVI. MT might point out that the previous two popes were also attacked by traditionalists, but he knows full well that these were a tiny minority, some of them sedevacantists.
The most respected Catholic weekly in Britain, the Catholic Herald, found the Vigano testimony credible; MT dismissed it as 'garbage'. The signatories of the 'filial correction' were mainstream Catholics of distinction, concerned about the apparent direction in which the Church appeared to be heading. Two of them are known to me personally. MT simply trashed their characters and ignored their arguments, assuming he had actually read and understood them.
Mark Thomas would have been quite at home in Stalin's Russia and I suspect in present-day China, where criticism of the regime results in character assassination followed by worse. I know most people see him as a harmless eccentric, but I find him more sinister.
MT is an empty suit. He slavishly adores and slobbers over perhaps the least intellectually gifted Pope of our lifetime and routinely trashes perhaps the most gifted, Benedict XVI. No surprise that MT cannot see the ludicrous double standard in his statements. He is very disruptive and he even admitted once in a rare moment of candor that he has been banned from other religious blobs - dum spiro spero!
There is nothing "disruptive" in posting comments on a blog.
If you don't want to read them, don't read them.
If you find them ludicrous, don't read them.
If you disagree with them, don't read them.
If you say "Don't feed the trolls" and, then, continue to feed the trolls, who is at fault?
'If you find them ludicrous, don't read them. If you disagree with them, don't read them.'
There is a logical fallacy here. One cannot decide whether a comment is or is not ludicrous, or whether or not one agrees with it, unless one reads it.
Mark Thomas addressed his last comment to me. He didn't say anything he hasn't said countless times before, but that doesn't mean he is not worthy of a response, even if I choose to couch it in the third person.
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