I would say that bishops, priests and deacons are caught in the middle.
This is an excerpt from a Vatican News Editorial at the Vatican News webpage which you can read in full HERE.
Although the couple is blessed but not the union, the Declaration notes that what is blessed is the legitimate relationship between the two people: in “a brief prayer preceding this spontaneous blessing, the ordained minister could ask that the individuals have peace, health, a spirit of patience, dialogue, and mutual assistance—but also God’s light and strength to be able to fulfill his will completely” (par. 38).
Yet, I received the Jesuit America Magazine email with this headline, which I copy directly from the email:
BREAKING: Pope Francis allows blessing same-sex relationships
And of course, the secular media isn’t making the distinction that the Vatican editorial is making.
What a mess! This is the new normal. Will the next pope been given the mandate at the Conclave to clean up the mess, the best way he can? Time will tell.
43 comments:
He is now an anti-pope - blessing sin
This is the straw that breaks the back. I'm done. I do not consider myself to be in communion with Rome any longer. I am leaving the church. I am beyond sad. I am devastated.
TJM, none of us has the divine right to declare any pope to be an anti-pope. That has to be done by a future pope and clearly outlining why. There is a theory that a pope ceases to be pope at the time he enunciates something to be believed which is a heresy. This is easier to do with dogmatic theology or doctrine, such as the nature of the Trinity and the Three Divine Persons. For a pope to say that Jesus was an alien from outer space would qualify I think.
I am not sure that this declaration on blessing individuals in an illicit sexual union rises to that.
This just seems like creeping closer to eventual same sex marriages. And the day they do is the day I join the Orthodox Church.
This is all fresh off the press. I do think it has the potential to create a true schism. Pope Francis is the pope until someone with the divine authority to do so declares otherwise. Thus if bishops, priests and laity separate themselves from this pope because of this declaration, they will be in schism. Schism is separating oneself from the pope in a formal way, like the Great Schism.
Are there bishops and cardinals out there who might foment such a thing. I suspect so, but I think they will wait out this papacy which is coming to a conclusion, thus the feverish pace this pope is now trying to accomplish his agenda. I think women deacons will be next.
I’m sticking with the pope although it angers me that this pope is causing all of this mess and so unnecessarily.
There may be several ‘nexts’. I wonder if the Pope sees the end and is rushing the agenda.
Father McDonald,
He is doing a great job wrecking Catholicism. For one’s mental health it is best to tune him out
The wonderful, orthodox Declaration (Fiducia Supplicans) in question announced clearly and immediately,:
"As with the Holy Father’s above-mentioned response to the Dubia of two Cardinals, this Declaration remains firm on the traditional doctrine of the Church about marriage, not allowing any type of liturgical rite or blessing similar to a liturgical rite that can create confusion."
Section III, "Blessings of Couples in Irregular Situations and of Couples of the Same Sex", has stated clearly:
"...there is no intention to legitimize anything, but rather to open one’s life to God, to ask for his help to live better, and also to invoke the Holy Spirit so that the values of the Gospel may be lived with greater faithfulness."
================
To their collective credit, several journalists who have received accreditation to The Holy See Press Office have reported the Declaration's clear teachings.
Example: Bree A Dail, Rome correspondent, Daily Wire, reported:
VATICAN CITY — The new Prefect of the Doctrine of the Faith states people in “irregular” unions, such as same sex unions, may NOT (her emphasis) receive anything resembling liturgical blessings, or blessings of their unions."
Vatican News reported: "The doctrine regarding marriage does not change, and the blessing does not signify approval of the union."
===============
Any confusion in regard to the Declaration (Fiducia Supplicans) is the result of those who have twisted the Declaration's clear teachings.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
"The wonderful, orthodox Declaration (Fiducia Supplicans) in question announced clearly and immediately,:"
Oh look! The resident pope splainer/polly is here to tell us all is well and orthodox with sodomite blessings. 🤨
Just more weasel word hair splitting to excuse the inexcusable.
This very papacy's own head of CDF said the Church could not bless such sin, so a new head was brought in to give the desired heretical answer to an heretic pope.
Which pretty much is impossible to happen, but it did, undercutting every claim of the Roman Catholic Church as being THE Church where such could never happen.
And am sorry so many bishops, priests etc cannot own up to the truth of that damning assessment....they might not be able to see it, but accelerating declining numbers of Roman Catholics will show that everyone else has not missed it.
This is what comes of bishops and priests playing nice and not rocking the boat and paralyzing themselves into pussy footing around.
In regard to the Declaration Fiducia Supplicans:
It is unfortunate that today, via blogs, as well as X, certain Catholics have declared that Pope Francis has taught heresy...has promoted grave sin.
There are off-the-rails Catholics who, in bizarre, preposterous fashion, have declared that today's Declaration has proven that Pope Francis is an "anti-Pope."
Catholics who have pronounced against the Declaration must possess poor reading skills (if said folks have even read the Declaration). Or, said folks have misrepresented the document deliberately.
It is a shame that certain Catholics have attacked His Holiness, Pope Francis, via the Declaration Fiducia Supplicans, which is clear and orthodox.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
"James Martin, who advocates for greater welcome for LGBTQ+ Catholics, praised the new document as a 'huge step forward' and a 'dramatic shift' from the Vatican’s 2021 policy. The new document 'recognizes the deep desire in many Catholic same-sex couples for God’s presence and help in their committed relationships,' he said in an email. 'Along with many Catholic priests, I will now be delighted to bless my friends in same-sex marriages.'"
I wonder when he will get another letter praising his work.
Nick
Mark Thomas, do you think they are telling the truth? They say they are not blessing the union, just the same sex couple. What makes them a couple? Adjacent seats on the bus? And doesn’t Fr James Martin see this a “huge step forward”? Meaning there is more to come. Some outdated apostle said our no should mean no.
Bob,
It gives off strong Nixonian vibes.
Nick
More Clinton- depends on what the meaning of “is” is
N, I am now eagerly awaiting the rehabilitation of Sodom and Gomorrah as unjustly vilified.
I have not broken faith with the Roman Church. The Roman Church has broken faith with all the faithful, living and dead.
In regard to the following claims:
The Declaration is unorthodox. Via the Declaration, Pope Francis has sown confusion within, and without, the Church.
The above claims, as the Declaration's teachings below demonstrate, are untenable.
================
Here is the Declaration's clear, unmistakable teaching:
4. "Pope Francis’ recent response to the second of the five questions posed by two Cardinals offers an opportunity to explore this issue further, especially in its pastoral implications."
"It is a matter of avoiding that “something that is not marriage is being recognized as marriage.”
"Therefore, rites and prayers that could create confusion between what constitutes marriage—which is the “exclusive, stable, and indissoluble union between a man and a woman, naturally open to the generation of children” — and what contradicts it are inadmissible."
"This conviction is grounded in the perennial Catholic doctrine of marriage; it is only in this context that sexual relations find their natural, proper, and fully human meaning. The Church’s doctrine on this point remains firm."
5. "This is also the understanding of marriage that is offered by the Gospel. For this reason, when it comes to blessings, the Church has the right and the duty to avoid any rite that might contradict this conviction or lead to confusion."
"Such is also the meaning of the Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which states that the Church does not have the power to impart blessings on unions of persons of the same sex."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
rcg, in regard to journalists, this person, that person:
I rely upon my bishop, who teaches in communion with Pope Francis, to teach, govern, and sanctify me. My bishop has assured me/us (within our diocese) that the Declaration's teachings are orthodox. That is good enough for me.
But of monumental importance is that Holy Mother Church guarantees that, thanks to the promise of Jesus Christ, Pope Francis teachings are orthodox.
=============
rcg, I appreciate your reply.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
rcg said..."Some outdated apostle said our no should mean no."
Excellent.
In line with that "outdated apostle's" above statement," Pope Francis, via the Declaration released today, has said "no."
His Holiness, Pope Francis, has, in clear, unmistakable fashion, said "no" to the blessing of a same-sex union.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Statement of USCCB on Vatican’s Document Addressing Pastoral Blessings
December 18, 2023
WASHINGTON - In response to the Declaration “Fiducia supplicans” issued by the Vatican’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith today, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) offered the following statement from its spokesperson, Chieko Noguchi, executive director of public affairs.
“The Declaration issued today by the Vatican’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) articulated a distinction between liturgical (sacramental) blessings, and pastoral blessings, which may be given to persons who desire God’s loving grace in their lives."
"The Church’s teaching on marriage has not changed, and this declaration affirms that, while also making an effort to accompany people through the imparting of pastoral blessings because each of us needs God’s healing love and mercy in our lives.”
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark, if you want to believe that a good Christian Catholic must believe it when a pope p***** on your shoes amd tells you it's raining, why you go ahead and enjoy the shoe wash while patting yourself on the back as to how faithful you are.
Personally, I believe God calls me to be faithful to the Truth of scripture and all of what the Church (now formerly) taught through all (prior) history, and that the new teachings and teachers are faithless, and my going along with them endangers my mortal soul.
But more power to you and all the other defenders of what is shaping up more and more as "the great defection" unless swiftly and surely corrected.
Tim Flanders wrote a good one on this:
https://onepeterfive.com/vatican-blesses-sodomy/
Mark, if you want to believe that a good Christian Catholic must believe it when a pope p***** on your shoes amd tells you it's raining, why you go ahead and enjoy the shoe wash while patting yourself on the back as to how faithful you are.
Personally, I believe God calls me to be faithful to the Truth of scripture and all of what the Church (now formerly) taught through all (prior) history, and that the new teachings and teachers are faithless, and my going along with them endangers my immortal soul.
But more power to you and all the other defenders of what is shaping up more and more as "the great defection" unless swiftly and surely corrected.
Bob said...Mark, if you want to believe that a good Christian Catholic must believe it when a pope p***** on your shoes amd tells you it's raining, why you go ahead and enjoy the shoe wash while patting yourself on the back as to how faithful you are."
Bob, do you pat yourself on the back as to how unfaithful you are?
======================
Bob said..."Personally, I believe God calls me to be faithful to the Truth of scripture and all of what the Church (now formerly) taught through all (prior) history, and that the new teachings and teachers are faithless, and my going along with them endangers my immortal soul."
Bob, I believe that which Holy Mother Church has taught me. Among Her teachings is that the Pope is unable to promulgate unorthodox teachings. Therefore, via today's Declaration
(Fiducia supplicans), Pope Francis, thanks to the promise of Jesus Christ, has issued orthodox teachings.
Also, my bishop, who teaches in communion with Pope Francis, has guaranteed that the Declaration is orthodox.
Therefore, Bob, I am compelled to reject dissension, which I do so without hesitation, from Pope Francis', as well as my bishop's, awesome authority to teach, govern and sanctify me.
In regard to the holy teachings contained within the Declaration (Fiducia supplicans):
Jesus Christ today has spoken through His Holiness, Pope Francis, as well as my bishop.
Bob, peace and good health to you, as well as your family.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT, the Germans certainly understand it:
From the Pillar: The declaration, which provides a rationale for the blessing of couples in illicit unions, provided they are not within the context of a liturgy, cannot be interpreted as analogous to marriage, and do not attempt or imply a legitimizing of the sexual partnership, met with considerable controversy.
Many, including several of the bishops of Germany, hailed the text as a first step towards formal recognition of same sex unions by the Church and a change in the Church’s teaching on human sexuality.
MT you are a fundamentalist and use the pope and bishops as Protestants fundamentalists use the Bible. It is infantile.
Sorry for the double post, was correcting a typo and apparently posted the typo version.
Meanwhile, especially for Mark, no priest, bishop, cardinal, or pope has the power to bless a sinful state and them legitimately continue to hold their office....
THEY have fallen away from the Church, and no true believer is beholden to them, and any who follow them imperil their own membership in the mystical body. They excuse themselves only with legalistic double speak, and crooked lawyers are NOT who will be greeters at the pearly gates. You pays your money and you takes your chances,
Mark. I KNOW I am not imperilling my soul by refusing to follow those who teach in opposition of all which came before. And I KNOW who will get the blame for my "confusion", and brother, it ain't me, but instead those who sow confusion AND their defenders who support discarding all which came before under the banner of brain dead loyality. God gave us minds and holds us accountable for not using them.
Fr. McDonald, here is an excellent video with Robert Royal & Fr. Murray on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJK3fzvyKu0
There comes a point where the amount of mental gymnastics that is being used to explain the blatantly obvious things that one sees in front of their face becomes undoable. The Franciscan papacy has long gotten past that point.
Father McDonald said..."MT you are a fundamentalist..."
Father McDonald, I have issued comments today that are in line with Church teaching. Are you able to demonstrate otherwise?
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT you are like a Biblical fundamentalist and you are wrong. There is absolutely nothing infallible about today’s decree as it concerns blessing couples who are in immoral sexual unions which are publicly known. You are in error if you believe so.
Orthodox Physicist,
While I am sure it is not your intention, I would suggest we refrain from calling this papacy "The Franciscan Papacy".
To do so is a grave injustice and insult to St. Francis of Assisi and St. Francis de Sales. These were good, holy men who became saints. Jorge Bergoglio doesn't even belong in the same zip code as those two men.
Father McDonald:
I have no idea why you continue to waste time and mental energy on the resident buffoon. Let me restate that: He's graduated from resident buffoon to resident moron. It's an embarrassment for anyone with an IQ over 60 to read his name. Ugh.
Mark Thomas is a heretic and a leftist, Soros paid troll. Goodbye Father McDonald. With an exception or two your best Catholic posters are gone (Fr K Orwell is in the MT camp)
Maybe the pope could invite Donald Trump or the new Argentinian president, or both, to the Vatican for a public blessing with no other comments, just the blessing?
Father McDonald said..."MT you are like a Biblical fundamentalist..."
That is what Father Ruff had labeled me in 2015 A.D. Rita Ferrone had argued in favor of deacons administering the Sacrament of Extreme Unction. I quoted the then-CDF, as well as CCC, to counter her.
Father Ruff, unable to defeat Church teaching, had to resort to having labeled me a "Fundamentalist."
Today, Father McDonald, I employed Church teaching to counter false claims issued here against Fiducia Supplicans. Nobody here, or anywhere, is able to counter Church teaching.
We can rest assured that thanks to the promise of Jesus Christ, Pope Francis preserves the Catholic Religion immaculately. Correct?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
The pope is suppose to preserve the unity of the Church too. He is causing schism. There is nothing immaculate about the schism that is hay.
Happening
Father McDonald said..."MT, the Germans certainly understand it: From the Pillar..,.several of the bishops of Germany, hailed the text as a first step towards formal recognition of same sex unions by the Church and a change in the Church’s teaching on human sexuality."
Father McDonald, the next paragraph from the part of the The Pillar article that you referenced declared:
"...the text, which explicitly states, repeatedly, that the Church’s teaching on non-marital unions and same sex relationships remains unchanged, and bars the giving of blessings in any way or context which could be interpreted as resembling marriage or legitimizing a sinful situation."
Unfortunately, certain folks within the Church have misrepresented the Declaration. It is unfortunate that that will continue within, and without, the Church.
But the Declaration, as The Pillar article has made clear, teaches "explicitly," as well as "repeatedly," "that the Church’s teaching on non-marital unions and same sex relationships remains unchanged."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald, you declared earlier in this thread:
"Pope Francis is the pope...Thus if bishops, priests and laity separate themselves from this pope because of this declaration, they will be in schism. I’m sticking with the pope..."
===========
Father McDonald, just now you declared that Pope Francis is "causing schism." However, Father, you said that you are sticking with Pope Francis. If the supposed schism is caused by Pope Francis, then it is Pope Francis who has entered into schism. Correct?
Is it correct to say that if Pope Francis is "causing schism," then it is he who has broken with the Church?
Also, if Pope Francis has caused, or will cause, the grave situation of schism, then why would an orthodox Catholic even think to remain in communion with him?
Father McDonald, I am sincere in my attempt to follow your arguments/declarations in question.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
The Document appears to hedge its bets by using very 'conditional' language -
But we await the next logical movement when 'can' is replaced by 'must'
Blessing of a group implies blessing of that group’s effort. Blessing of a homosexual couple is a blessing of what identifies them as a couple. This is simple hegemony by the homosexual clergy that are trying to change the Law of God by steps.
All of this is so unnecessary. Just bless the individual and not the "Couple." It is confusing for us simple folks that see headlines that "Pope Approves Blessing Same Sex Couples." Who is going to read more than that, other than highly educated Church people? If it has to be explained in two or three sentences deep in an article, the particulars are going to get lost. Now us defenders of the faith have to explain this to our Protestant attackers. And to our highly orthodox Catholic family members that are looking for a reason to leave the Church and curse the Pope. As stated it is "sewing seeds of confusing." It has to be on purpose. It is so unnecessary unless to creep toward actual gay marriages.
This is a hornets' nest.
I asked our chancellor if a proposed text for such blessings would be provided. No, not allowed, per Rome.
So, I'm expected to come up with a blessing on my own. And what do you suppose happens if someone complains about my "unpastoral" blessing, which might mention virtues such as generosity, chastity, etc.?
My decision was that I will happily bless individuals; the only groups I will bless will be those described in existing blessings, such as pilgrims, students, engaged and married couples, i.e., in the natural-law understanding of the same.
This decision will cause a great deal of mischief. We'll wait and see how much of that is reined in by Rome.
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