Friday, October 17, 2014

THIS IS SCARY AND IT IS SAD--THIS MAY WELL BE POPE FRANCIS' SSPX MOMENT BUT IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT WAY

From Rorate Caeli: Burke confirms: Yes, Pope has demoted me. "Pope has done a lot of harm by not saying openly what his position is" Synod "designed to change Church's teaching"

We (Rorate Caeli) post here for the record of current events all the quotes published by BuzzFeed from their interview with Cardinal Burke:
A top cardinal told BuzzFeed News on Friday that the worldwide meeting of church leaders coming to a close in Rome seemed to have been designed to “weaken the church’s teaching and practice” with the apparent blessing of Pope Francis.
...
If Pope Francis had selected certain cardinals to steer the meeting to advance his personal views on matters like divorce and the treatment of LGBT people, Burke said, he would not be observing his mandate as the leader of the Catholic Church.
“According to my understanding of the church’s teaching and discipline, no it wouldn’t be correct,” Burke said, saying the pope had “done a lot of harm” by not saying “openly what his position is.
...
“The pope, more than anyone else as the pastor of the universal church, is bound to serve the truth,” Burke said. “The pope is not free to change the church’s teachings with regard to the immorality of homosexual acts or the insolubility of marriage or any other doctrine of the faith.”
...
In the interview with BuzzFeed News, Burke confirmed publicly for the first time the rumors that he had been told Francis intended to demote him from the church’s chief guardian of canon law to a minor post as patron to the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

“I very much have enjoyed and have been happy to give this service, so it is a disappointment to leave it,” Burke said, explaining that he hadn’t yet received a formal notice of transfer. “On the other hand, in the church as priests, we always have to be ready to accept whatever assignment we’re given. And so I trust by accepting this assignment I trust that God will bless me, and that’s what’s in the end most important.”
...
The [relatio post disceptationem] is now being revised with feedback from small-group discussions held this week, and a final version is scheduled to be voted on on Saturday. Burke said he hoped that the committee writing the new report will produce a “worthy document,” but said his “trust is a little bit shaken” by the language in the interim draft he said lack “a good foundation either in the sacred scriptures or in the church’s perennial teachings.”
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While Francis has shown no sign he supports overhauling the church’s teachings that homosexuality is sinful, he seems to have taken from this experience a desire to downplay conflicts over sexuality in order to broaden the church’s message.

But, Burke said, the Church must always call a “person who’s involved in sinful acts […] to conversion in a loving way, but obviously, like a father or mother in a family, in a firm way for the person’s own good.” There cannot be “a difference between doctrine and practice” on questions like homosexuality or anything else, Burke said.

27 comments:

FJH said...

Father, you should really credit the blogs from which you copy material.

Anonymous said...

OK, before we totally freak out, this seems to be the interpretation of the reporter - and Rorate. Nowhere does the BuzzFeed article have the words "designed to change Church teaching." That is Rorate's rather sensationalistic headline. The BuzzFeed article says, (that Card. Burke thinks) the Synod "was designed to 'weaken the church’s teaching and practice' with the apparent blessing of Pope Francis." The phrase "with the apparent blessing of Pope Francis" is not a Burke quote. Perhaps he implied it, perhaps not, but even so, that is his interpretation - or the reporter's interpretation. Everything else seems to be a rehash of news that we Catholic internet types already know (some of it quite old like the Spadaro interview from a year ago)- but may be new to the BuzzFeed reporter and which is being put together in a rather sensationalistic way.

I suppose that it is true that Burke is being demoted, but we already knew that was a real possibility. Sadly, he has confirmed it. However, even he says that he hasn't received the official notice yet.

Marc said...

"... [The pope] seems to have taken from this experience a desire to downplay conflicts over sexuality in order to broaden the church’s message."

So, in order to broaden the church's message, which includes teaching on sexual morality, he wants to downplay the teaching on sexual morality. In other words, sell people on a false message. To what end?

Anonymous said...

Reading these columns might make want to go hide under a rock or in a cave...hopefully there is some good news every now and then!

It seems like the "gay" issue is the main bone of contention at the synod. If the end result is that everyone is welcome at church, that should not be an issue. Atlanta's Archbishop yesterday issued a statement (following a meeting with parents of gay children) asking us to treat such persons with respect and dignity. I don't think he'll get much negative feedback up here from that (although it isn't like those entering a parish are being asked, "are you gay?"). If the result is trying to become like the Episcopal Church on that matter (same-sex blessings), then we'll have problems---big ones. Of course the conservative bishops in Rome are to be praised for saying we must adhere to once (even in Protestantism) was unquestioned---marriage is a man and woman.

All that being said, I don't think the typical person in the pew is following the acrimonious debates that much, in part because of the dominant news on the Ebola crisis, and in part because the midterm elections are only two and a half weeks away in this country (hopefully no runoffs here in the state of Georgia!)

Cameron said...

Marc, "To what end?" is a question that is not in the vocabulary of leftism.

I think the ultimate difference between liberalism and conservatism is the difference between process versus goal. The liberal is obsessed with the process, the conservative is obsessed with the goal.

JBS said...

Cameron,

Well said, very well said indeed.

JBS said...

This is the first time I've ever heard of "BuzzFeed", and I question whether a cardinal of the Church really spoke with them.

Marc said...

Good point, Cameron.

And here are the words of another brave (and literally Orthodox) bishop to the Synod:

“The time has come for Christians to join efforts and come out as a united front for the noble goal of protecting the family when confronted by the challenges of the secular world for the sake of preserving the future of civilization.”

“The topic of the family is one of the most acute and vital today. . . . It is an indicator of the moral state of the society in which we live.”

“We have anxiously watched as abuse of the notions of freedom and tolerance has been used in recent years to dismantle the basic values rooted in religious traditions. . . . There is an increasingly aggressive propagation of the idea of moral relativism applied also to the institution of the family held sacred by all of humanity.”

- Metropolitan Hilarion (of the Moscow Patriarchate)

JBS said...

If Pope Francis had only dedicated his papacy to promoting Gospel simplicity, he could have been a good pope. He remains popular with those lacking concern for the eternal consequences of sin, but I'm afraid others have now moved from curiosity, through confusion, to dismay with his pastoral style. I hope he can turn things around and rebuild trust, but it's not clear how he can accomplish this now. I've bent over backwards to explain and defend his words and deeds, but I've exhausted my personal resources with which to do so. May God bless him, and may God have mercy on us if we're wrong about this vicar of Christ.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, BuzzFeed is where one would go to get knowing, serious Catholic analysis? Even if Card. Burke spoke to them and confirmed his reappointment, everything else is old info that we already know. (We even heard the rumors of Burke's possible reassignment from Fr. Z and Sandro Magister weeks ago.) These are things that Burke or others have said in the last several weeks. Some of the Pope Francis quotes are from the Spadaro interview of a year ago. What the reporter did was to arrange them in such a way as to create maximum hype and scare.

MR said...

@JBS, You said "I've bent over backwards to explain and defend his words and deeds, but I've exhausted my personal resources with which to do so."
I think this is basically what Card Burke (and many others) are saying as well.

Anonymous said...

Now Francis is renting out the Sistine chapel for corporate dinners starting with the Porsche Gmbh, Cardinal Burke save us and Holy Mother Church. This papacy cannot be taken seriously I'm sorry to this but it's the honest truth.


,,

Anonymous 2 said...

There are some very interesting recent studies about the differences between liberals and conservatives and how they may be rooted in differences in personality, psychology, and even physiology and genetics. I retain a healthy skepticism about such studies, but that said I suspect there is some degree of truth to them.

I have just posted the following two paragraphs on an earlier thread (about the subpoenas served on some pastors in the city of Houston; see October 15):

Why do people allow themselves to be manipulated and whipped up by media hype (when the main thing they want to do is to sell their product to gullible consumers)? It is happening over the synod, it is happening over Ebola, it is happening over ISIS, and it is happening over this. Now what was that phrase about not cooperating in evil (I assume that lies, misrepresentations, and the deliberate creation of hysteria and fear-mongering are evils)? Not only is it wrong to participate in this, it is unwise because it reduces credibility of the reporter and of those further propagating the report. Consequently, when there really IS a “there” there no-one will believe it (except of course those who believe everything in these sources anyway) because we all remember, or should remember, the story about the boy who cried wolf.

Those who are really worried about losing their freedom should try to retain their independence of mind and critical thinking abilities so they can resist the excesses of government manipulation, corporate manipulation, and media manipulation. If one allows oneself to be manipulated by such forces, one has to that extent abdicated one’s freedom.

So, it is encouraging to see skepticism here about reports on Buzzfeed (whatever that is).


Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

The Sistine chapel is not being used for banquets, but only concerts and I presume and hope of a religious nature. It is in the Vatican Museum adjacent and down the hall that dinners are held!

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

I personally think it unwise for Cardinal Burke to be too vocal against the Holy Father. I hope that His Eminence spoke to Pope Francis in person about his concerns before he went public. It makes Cardinal Burke look like a man scorned and he might be and with good reason.

How do you tell the pope he's wrong without making it a public spectacle?

Anonymous said...

Given what Burke has been through, I think he's shown remarkable restraint. SOMEONE's voice needs to cry out in the wilderness.

Anonymous said...

Come on people....that red outfit is the grand prize winner in the Gay Pride Parade.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Homophobic?

Cameron said...

Lawl Fr. M, I think it is so funny that the lefties come out the woodwork to call bishops and priests "gay," it is so uber hypocritical of them.

Anonymous said...

Call it what you will...call me what you will. Just sayin'....my gay daughter totally agrees with me about the red outfit. And I expect that she knows more about Gay Pride Parades than you do...or I do.

I have never been in the woodwork.

And I have no idea about the priest. I'm talking about the cartoon outfit.

Anonymous said...

The homosexual community will often call someone gay as a defense mechanism, and they care little whether their accusation is true or not. They know they won't be sued.

I happen to know someone who knew the mother of one of the younger bishops. This bishop has been accused of being gay by the gay press more than once. The ironic thing is, his mother told my friend that she was relieved when her son decided to become a priest, because she was afraid he was going to get one of his many girlfriends pregnant!

The gay community will stoop at nothing.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

When I say "homophobic" I mean the discomfort you feel seeing a man wear what he is wearing designed more than likely during the Renaissance and by a gay designer. Let's face it. More than likely Michelangelo may have had same sex attractions too, he designed the Swiss guards; outfit and David!

I think both are art. I guess the Roman togas and the wigs that judges wear in Great Britain and other places and the make-up men wore during the Renaissance and on TV and movies is gay too.

Kilts? Gay, yes without a doubt and the dress blues of the armed forces, gay, no doubt about it.

But for those of us who aren't homophobic we can appreciate all this gayness and not be offended or to feel uncomfortable!

Anonymous said...

I feel NO "discomfort" at all at seeing the priest or bishop or whatever in the garish red regalia. Some amusement...maybe, as a Catholic, some embarrassment.

I think it's a REALLY poor choice on your part to equate the red thing to military dress uniforms.

BTW despite your disclaimer, you are indeed homophobic. Maybe you should look it up rather than making up your own definition.

My work here is done

Cameron said...

I have literally no clue what you people are blabbering about anymore.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:13..."The gay community will stop at nothing." Wow! Really? I guess you're thinking of all the heterosexuals who have been ridiculed, harassed, abused, murdered by gay people because they were straight, or maybe the gay bank robbers or child abusers...maybe all of the wars that have been started by gay people...all the abortions they get...

By George, I think you're onto something.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:13..."The gay community will stop at nothing." Wow! Really? I guess you're thinking of all the heterosexuals who have been ridiculed, harassed, abused, murdered by gay people because they were straight, or maybe the gay bank robbers or child abusers...maybe all of the wars that have been started by gay people...all the abortions they get...

By George, I think you're onto something.

Gene said...

Anonymous at 11:11: So, I guess you have all hardwood floors in your house.