There are all kinds of ideas about the future of the Mass, both the ancient and modern. It’s all so very confusing.
And finally we have a good Abbot in France writing the pope about forming a new Missal with two ways of celebrating it. But many people don’t like his ideas, although they merit consideration and his recommendation to Pope Leo is more likely to garner widespread support, with only modern and ancient liturgical nerds complaining.
But here’s my definitive recommendation to Pope Leo:
The modern/Bugnini Missal is a disaster, not so much the Missal, as the manner in which it is celebrated, to include all the Kitschy music dragged into it and all the instrumentation and all the Broadway melodies set to sacred words.
A thorough revision of the Bugnini Mass needs to take place, which eliminates the clericalism of options that the priest makes exclusively, depending on his ideologies or how he’s feeling that day. The Ordinariat’s Missal with its limited options, is the way to go and how they were allowed to modify the Roman Calendar.
The Bugnini Mass’s Introductory Rite is a disaster! Take away all the options except for the Confiteor and Kyrie following. Mandate the use of the Propers, chanted or spoken. Mandate no improvising annd the celebrants verbosity! Address the disaster of liturgy music, and priests ad libbing and acting like an MC imposing his happy, clappy personality on the Mass.
Make sure the Liturgy of the Eucharist is ad orientem and Kneeling for Holy Communion and receiving on the tongue is the norm!
As far as the Ancient Mass goes, go back to Summorum Pontificum but emphasize the role of the bishop in supervising its use, so that it isn’t foisted upon any parish where it isn’t welcomed. Allow pastors of parishes to determine its use in his parish, not any other priest, assigned or visiting.
17 comments:
The flaw in your proposal is at the moment nobody really wants to use the new Missal - rather add/delete/expand it at will; but those who use the Missal of 1962 on the whole use it as it orders. Your proposal foists two new options which nobody wants.
Why jump through hoops to attempt to end the Latin Church's liturgical "war" — a "war" that is very much limited to extreme right-wingers, as well as left-wingers?
In the middle are the majority of Mass-going who do not participate in the liturgical "war." Said folks would support undoubtedly the following:
Our past three holy Popes have expressed the following solution(s):
Pope Leo XIV: "Well, you can say the Latin Mass right now. If it is the rite of Vatican II, the Mass of Paul VI, there is no problem...if we celebrate the Vatican II liturgy correctly, do you really find such a difference between this experience and that one?’”
Pope Leo XVI's above comment echoes the following:
Pope Francis (requiescat in pace): "Whoever wishes to celebrate with devotion according to earlier forms of the liturgy can find in the reformed Roman Missal according to Vatican Council II all the elements of the Roman Rite, in particular the Roman Canon which constitutes one of its more distinctive elements."
Popes Leo XIV, as well as Francis, echoed the following:
Then-Cardinal Ratzinger: "An average Christian without specialist liturgical formation would find it difficult to distinguish between a Mass sung in Latin according to the old Missal and a sung Latin Mass according to the new Missal."
Pope Benedict XVI:
"...it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite...The most sure guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives."
"This will bring out the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal."
"Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books.
"The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness."
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In regard to Latin Church liturgy: The Popes in question have made it clear that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is THE way forward.
Why jump through hoops to attempt to reinvent the, if you will, liturgical wheel? Make it easy. Embrace the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Pope Benedict XVI:
"The most sure guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives.
"This will bring out the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal."
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As Pope Benedict XVI declared, the Missal of Pope Saint
Pope Benedict XVI:
"The most sure guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives.
"This will bring out the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal."
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As Pope Benedict XVI had made clear, the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul is replete with "spiritual richness and the theological depth."
Said Mass "celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives" would "unite parish communities and be loved by them," according to Pope Benedict XVI.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I was waiting for our least informed commentator to jump in who cherry picks quotes to support his "argument." The Bugnini Missal has been a flop and caused millions to flee the Faith. When we had the TLM, 80% of Catholics attended Sunday Mass, where at best 20% attend Mass with the Bugnini Missal.
The biggest and best change would be to end the sexism of the Bugnini Mass by mandating the Roman Canon where the female saints are honored!
A third of Catholics surveyed circa 1966 said they started going to Mass and confession less often after the liturgical changes began, and that wasn't even the massive shift to the NO. How's that for a new springtime!
But there's no data, right?
Nick
Not to our favorite leftist priest and his monkey
A ray of hope:
''Dom Kemlin noted that young Catholics differ greatly from older radtrads in the following fashion:
Question: "Do you think that young Catholics today look at this "liturgical quarrel" differently? The 18-to-35 generation and the newly baptized, for example, seem far more relaxed on the subject…"
Dom Kemlin: "Yes, absolutely! We see today how easily they move from one rite to another, with no difficulty in welcoming one another.
"Most of them pray just as easily at Paray-le-Monial, at Taizé, or on the Chartres Pilgrimage. It is a beautiful example set for us, one that can soften our hearts."
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Trad Inc. radtrads are nervous as various young Catholics embrace not only the TLM, but the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Example: Michael Matt expressed alarm recently at the increasing amount of young "traditional" Catholics who are at home in the reformed Mass.
Liturgical warmongering talk against the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI does not resonate with an increasing amount of young Catholics.
The young Catholics in question have rejected liturgical warmongering talk in which far too many "traditionalists" have long engaged.
The young Catholics in question have rejected such slurs as "Novus Bogus, Nervous Disorder, and Bugnini Mass."
As Dom Kemlin said of young Catholics:
"We see today how easily they move from one rite to another, with no difficulty in welcoming one another.
"Most of them pray just as easily at Paray-le-Monial, at Taizé, or on the Chartres Pilgrimage. It is a beautiful example set for us, one that can soften our hearts."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Dom Kemlin has noted that young Catholics do not carry anti-Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI radtrad baggage. To said folks, the following Trad Inc. mantra is preposterous: The Novus Bogus is banal, fabricated, as well as faith-sapping.
Therefore, the following would not surprise me:
Should the SSPX ordain bishops without Papal mandate, more and more young Catholics who love the Church/Pope Leo XIV would turn in even greater fashion against radtrad-ism.
The 1988 A.D. Lefebvre schism spurred various trad Catholics to embrace Rome/FSSP. Said Catholics opted for communion with Holy Mother Church in place of SSPX radtrad-ism.
Within a few months, the SSPX may spur an increasing amount of young Catholics to contemplate the spiritual destruction that Trad Inc. — led in numerous ways by the SSPX — has long unleashed within the Church.
Pope Benedict XVI declared that "it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite..."
As Dom Kemlin has made clear, young Catholics are on board with the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI. That will ensure that said Holy Mass is the Latin Church's future.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Peter Kwasniewski's trashing of Father Kemlin's compromise in question:
"Breaking my social media silence for a brief comment on one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in the liturgy controversy.
"The Abbot of Solesmes, Geoffroy Kemlin, has written a letter to Pope Leo XIV proposing what he thinks is the DEFINITIVE solution to the liturgy wars—namely, to insert the Ordo Missae of the John XXIII missal as an option in the Novus Ordo missal, and then to ask all trads to accept the rest of the Novus Ordo: its orations, prefaces, extra Eucharistic Prayers, lectionary, calendar, the works:
"With all due respect, I must say that this poor abbot...shows himself to be absolutely out of touch with where the conversation is and has been.
"It's as if he hasn't followed a single thing traditionalists have been delving into for years, nay, decades.
"Nor, contrary to what he asserts, do I imagine that most pilgrims on the Chartres pilgrimage would eagerly embrace a hybrid old/new rite.
"I wonder, can he even be quite serious? How can you celebrate the old rite (as he claims to do) and not be aware of the profound differences in orations, calendar, lections, spirituality, and so on? You'd have to be wearing a blindfold and earplugs.
"Plus, all he's asking for is more optionitis, which means, more disunity, since no two people can ever agree on a rite if there is not a fixed way of doing it.
"It would be a sheer and utter disaster if Leo were to act on this proposal.
"In short: this is the dumbest of all dumb proposals."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Peter Kwasniewski's (from his perspective) trashing of Father Kemlin's compromise makes sense. Peter Kwasniewski believes the following:
-- The TLM is the Mass of the Ages;
-- The Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI constitutes faith-sapping, miserable, banal, manufactured liturgy;
Therefore, anything short of the exclusive return to the TLM is unacceptable.
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It is unimaginable that Father Kemlin's comprise would find acceptance among folks who believe that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul
Pax.
Mark Thomas
It is unimaginable that Father Kemlin's compromise would find acceptance among anybody who believes that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI constitutes banal, fabricated liturgy.
Anybody who believes the above in regard to the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI...anybody who believes that the post-Vatican II liturgical had flown off the rails...anybody who views the Holy reformed Mass as the "Bugnini Mass...
...has to trash, as has Peter Kwasniewski, Father Kemlin's comprise in question.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Joseph Shaw, Latin Mass Society:
"I don’t doubt the Abbot’s sincerity but why do people who know nothing about about the TLM, those who attend it, or the scholarly work that has been done for the last fifty years insist on giving us ‘solutions’?
"‘You’ll be fine with the new lectionary. And calendar. And collects. And Offertory. Won’t you? Oh and no more preparatory prayers or Last Gospel. You cool with all that?’
"How does this differ from the NO with EP1?"
Pax.
Mark Thomas
-- Benedictine abbot proposes solution to liturgy wars
From: Comments posted to The Catholic Herald:
"The Abbot also refuses to acknowledge that the Pauline reform wasn't according to the wishes of the Council Fathers and that's the whole weakness of his proposal.
"The current Novus Ordo is completely messed up so why in God's name would you want to insert the TLM into that Ordo?
"The TLM would also end as a stand alone rite, it would be chopped into pieces which Novus Ordo priests can insert into their mass.
"This is a really bad joke."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Baghdad Bob (aka Ri Chun-Hee) is having some kind of fit in the comments here, just in time for Passiontide! Oy. Now I remember one of the things I was trying to avoid running into.
Nick
The first thing that has to be done is to have an honest admission that the new Mass, whatever its virtues, goes beyond the reform called for by Vatican II. With this it would be understood that a reform of the reform would not be a backtracking or rejection of Vatican II, but and return to the original vision of Vatican II.
If we could acknowledge that the new Mass does go beyond what Vatican II envisioned, my preference would be to return to the reformed missal of 1965 as the single missal for both Latin and the vernacular. But if that were not deemed possible or prudent, then to what Fr. McDonald has proposed I would add: restoring the old offertory prayers; eliminating the new eucharistic prayers; eliminating lay ministers, reserving these roles to properly installed and vested men; and a return to boys only as servers.
No kidding
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