Thursday, July 2, 2015


Last year our Catholic high school administration terminated a non Catholic teacher who was openly gay and had planed to "marry" his same sex partner in a state that allows it. Since that time he has filed discrimination law suits against the school for unjust termination.

This past Monday, just three short days after the Supreme Court's fascist decision redefining civil marriage (they can't and will never redefine any sacrament of the Catholic Church including the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony with gender roles in marriage defined by natural law not human stereotypes) the said same employee began a federal lawsuit against the school and is seeking a jury trial.

This is what the Macon Telegraph reported in Tuesday's paper:

[Said terminated employee] "contends that he was fired because of his marriage plans and that he didn’t comport with the school’s “traditional gender stereotypes.”

 The suit seeks a jury trial, saying that the school acted with malice or reckless indifference to [his] federally protected rights. [He] seeks back pay, reinstatement to his job, compensation for his emotional pain and suffering, and attorney’s fees.

My comments: Of course the Supreme Court's decision on Friday is a wake-up call for Catholics and other religious institutions and organizations to protect their freedoms from government and judicial interference.  What was once common sense in terms of the Church's teachings on sexuality and marriage has been ignored by administrators of various Catholic institutions for some time and there has been an heroic effort by many bishops to make sure Catholic institutions recover and comply in witness to the truths of the Church by those who work for the Church, especially those who influence and form our young people. While bishops of dioceses do not micro manage the administration of Catholic institutions that are private and operate under a Board of Trustees system, these private Catholic institutions only receive their imprimatur as Catholic institutions from the bishops in  dioceses where these private Catholic institutions exist, be they schools, hospitals or social outreach ministries. Catholic institutions that flaunt and forgo Catholic identity in practice could lose that imprimatur as a Catholic institution and  thus become non-sectarian or join some other affiliation.

Over the last ten years, Mt. de Sales has worked hard to strengthen its Catholic identity. It is essential in all Catholic institutions that we not act like an NGO as Pope Francis insists (non-governmental organization) but as the Church with a clear Catholic identity where those who work for our institutions uphold the integrity of our teachings in the areas of Faith, Morals, Natural Law and Canon Law by manner of speech and public witness.

Will this federal lawsuit presage the end of religious freedom for the Catholic Church and other religious institutions? Will it make it to the Supreme Court? Time will tell. The judicial system is not in favor of God's laws as we have seen only too clearly. 

Here are a couple of ominous warnings from the dissenting Supreme Court justices on the fascist decision by five Supreme Court justices:

Justice Alito warns, “Today’s decision usurps the constitutional right of the people to decide whether to keep or alter the traditional understanding of marriage. The decision will also have other important consequences. It will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy. In the course of its opinion, the majority compares traditional marriage laws to laws that denied equal treatment for African-Americans and women. The implications of this analogy will be exploited by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent. . . . I assume that those who cling to old beliefs will be able to whisper their thoughts in the recesses of their homes, but if they repeat those views in public, they will risk being labeled as bigots and treated as such by governments, employers, and schools.”

Justice Clarence Thomas warns of a further negative consequence, saying, “The Court’s decision today is at odds not only with the Constitution, but with the principles upon which our Nation was built. . . . Aside from undermining the political processes that protect our liberty, the majority’s decision threatens the religious liberty our Nation has long sought to protect. . . . In our society, marriage is not simply a governmental institution; it is a religious institution as well. Today’s decision might change the former, but it cannot change the latter. It appears all but inevitable that the two will come into conflict, particularly as individuals and churches are confronted with demands to participate in and endorse civil marriages between same-sex couples. The majority appears unmoved by that inevitability. It makes only a weak gesture toward religious liberty in a single paragraph. And even that gesture indicates a misunderstanding of religious liberty in our Nation’s tradition. Religious liberty is about more than just the protection for ‘religious organizations and persons . . . as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives and faiths.’ Religious liberty is about freedom of action in matters of religion generally, and the scope of that liberty is directly correlated to the civil restraints placed upon religious practice.”

Chief Justice Roberts wrote more specifically about the threats to religious liberty saying, “Hard questions arise when people of faith exercise religion in ways that may be seen to conflict with the new right to same-sex marriage—when, for example, a religious college provides married student housing only to opposite-sex married couples, or a religious adoption agency declines to place children with same-sex married couples. Indeed, the Solicitor General candidly acknowledged that the tax exemptions of some religious institutions would be in question if they opposed same-sex marriage. There is little doubt that these and similar questions will soon be before this Court. Unfortunately, people of faith can take no comfort in the treatment they receive from the majority today.”

My final comments: Today's Catholic administrators will be taken to court. Tomorrow's Catholic administrators will be sentenced to prison and day after tomorrow's Catholic administrators will be martyred. When the USA collapses as an institution as it surely will out of divine punishment, the Catholic Church will remain to carry on her authentic mission in the world which is first and foremost the salvation of souls. Everything else is icing on the cake!


Read more here:

Read more here:


Anonymous said...

Southern Orders: headline June 26, 2015


Why the concern Father? You didn't seem to be disturbed at all the day it happened. You said that yes they may persecute a baker who didn't make a cake for a gay "wedding" but nothing will happen to the Church.

You just don't get it. And wait if you post this your response will ignore everything I wrote, including YOUR own headline, and just say That you have always been consistent. Yea right.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Anonymous, like a fundamentalist, you choose to quote and believe what you want about the Magisterium and the deposit of Faith by cherry picking to support your biases.

I said and repeatedly that Friday's Supreme Court decision won't affect Churches, but it opened the door to other lower court and ultimately Supreme Court decisions that will affect us. I said basically what the dissenting Justices said and which I have quoted in my latest post.

Do you glasses? Or a crash course on what fundamentalism is?

Supertradmum said...

Father, thank you for posting this. Yes this will happen. Some of us who love the Church saw this coming a long time ago. To be prepared spiritually and mentally is what we must become now.

Again, where I am, no priest has said anything about this in the two churches I visit weekly and daily--none. The silence implies consent.

I pray for all priests and seminarians, bishops and cardinals, to be faithful. Please pray for me as I try to set up a house of prayer for lay contemplatives. Prayer and penance is sadly lacking, and one reason why all this happened.

Anonymous said...

This suit indicates the importance of Catholic schools ensuring that their teachers sign a contract acknowledging that they accept and will uphold the teaching of the Church, as Bishop Cordileone is insisting upon. It would be interesting to know whether the school know this teacher's views before he signed his employment contract or has this teacher broken his contract in deciding to go against Church teaching? As it is a test case then no doubt the Church will throw in all its resources to fight this suit.


Anonymous said...

As Franklin Graham wrote several years ago, "America is on the Road to Destruction."

Anonymous said...

Maybe its good cause now we have a defined enemy. Something to focus our attention on instead of a nebulous of an idea as culture war. The Church Militant is so soft and out of practice of fighting. Lots of cowards that don't speak. Maybe now we can separate the wheat and chafe and get to business.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Catholic schools in the south have always hired non-Catholic teachers. Of course they knew when they came aboard that they could not denigrate Catholic teachings in the classroom or create scandal in their own lives that would compromise their teaching positions. Scandal is understood as the Catholic Church understands it. We've had marvelous non-Catholic teachers who have been shining examples of godly living and have cooperated in the Catholic Church's mission in the classroom and in their lives!

However, it is sad but true, especially with the take over of our Catholic schools' administration by laity and lay broad of trustees, that a watering down or liberalization has taken place not only in terms of expectations of employees as it regards Catholic morality and Catholic marriage, but also in what is taught at our schools.

Often times our schools have a veneer of Catholicism but are not so at their core and hire teachers who could care less about the mission of the Catholic Church as it concerns our school system. They see it as a job and they want the right to do as they please when it comes to today's ideologies.

The situation of Mt. de Sales with the terminated employee and the attitude of a small minority non-practicing Catholics employed there as well as non Catholics toward the authority and mission of the Church is mind-boggling.

I am grateful that a reformation of policy and practices is taking place there as it has been now for several years.

DJR said...

Is anyone surprised? Unfortunately for us, in our present circumstances, this is exactly the type of thing that is needed.

We have arrived at the point that open persecution is the only thing left to awaken our sleeping clerics, including the Holy Father, whose policy of appeasement and "dialoguing" with the world is an abysmal failure.

The overwhelming majority of Catholics, whether bishops, priests, or laity, have completely ignored the Blessed Virgin's admonitions given to us at Fatima. Therefore, the only thing left for us is the fulfillment of Her prophetic words, which we will now live to the letter.

Here are examples of people the Holy Father wants to dialogue with. I suggest everyone look at it because it's your future.

Anonymous said...

DJR said, "We have arrived at the point that open persecution is the only thing left to awaken our sleeping clerics..."

DJR, I'm afraid it's not that our clerics are's that many of them (so far silently, but probably soon more vocally) agree with the Supreme Court's decision and the liberal society that condones the sins against Faith and Morals(abortion, contraception, homosexual relationships, divorce and remarriage) - i.e. they are more like Episcopalians than Catholics. They don't act because they don't believe what the Catechism teaches. The enemy within....

Anonymous 2 said...

The situation at Mount de Sales is most unfortunate. As a parent of a Mount de Sales student, a parishioner, and a member of the legal profession, I hate to see this development. I strongly suspect that it could and should have been avoided.

But it wasn’t. And absent a settlement we may see one example of many to come of how the courts will work out the detailed implications – and more importantly the proper limits – of last week’s Supreme Court decision.

Anonymous 2 said...


I watched the videos in the two links you provided and then did a bit of research. Please correct me if I am wrong but as I understand the matter, the first video concerns the anti-homosexual activities of an extremely conservative “Catholic” organization called TFP (Tradition, Family, and Property) and comes across as a propaganda video. TFP is an international organization (with autonomous national TFPs) several decades old founded by Plinio Correa de Oliveira in Brazil in 1960. Among other views, de Oliveira was very opposed to Vatican II, describing it as "one of the greatest calamities, if not the greatest, in the history of the Church." TFP is selective in its support of Catholic teaching. It supports creation science and intelligent design. Although TFP’s American Branch does not appear to have run afoul of the Church authorities, this does not seem to be true in several other countries. Here are some links about the organization and its founder:,_Family_and_Property,_Family_and_Property

The video in the second link concerns pro-choice activists in Argentina aggressively protesting outside a cathedral being “defended” by a line of young men (I cannot tell if they are TFP). As I understand it, abortion is mostly unlawful in Argentina:

Are you advocating on behalf of TFP and its activities? Are you suggesting that churches will be attacked in the United States where abortion is lawful in many more circumstances than in Argentina or will be attacked if Roe v. Wade is overruled and the matter is returned to the states for individual democratic decision?

Anonymous said...

No, Anon 2, the men protecting the cathedral from vandalism are not TFP. And you could watch that video and read what was said about it but could say nothing except that you believe that abortion is widely legal in Argentina? Your silence speaks volumes.

Well for the information of others here are some of the salient points that you chose to ignore:

"According to InfoCatolica, some of the women chanted a song, with the lyrics: “To the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church, who wants to get between our sheets, we say that we want to be whores, travesties and lesbians. Legal abortion in every hospital.”

During the attack some men were visibly weeping. None of them retaliated against the abuses heaped on them.

While the site of the protest was the front of the cathedral, InfoBae reports that "the whole city awoke to graffiti in favor of abortion."


Anonymous said...

A friend taught in an English school in Sao Paulo for almost ten years where he had much contact with the TFP. It is ultra-traditionalist religiously and socially, and is working to maintain the power of the wealthy over against the working class. The founder, Oliveira, maintains that an aristocracy must be re-established, and that rule by an aristocratic class is ordained by God.

"In this excerpt, Prof. Corrêa de Oliveira explains how all elites must (1) be authentic and in the pursuit of excellence; and (2) be genuine. He also explains that when such authentic elites have maintained this elite status for some generations, they become traditional elites. When traditional elites live in an aristocratic manner, they become an aristocratic elite that is analogous to the established European nobility of old."

Anonymous 2 said...

Anon. Jan:

I did not choose to ignore anything. I don’t do that. I leave that sort of thing up to you. I simply did not see what you saw – the link brought up many different videos and other links on my computer. But thank you for supplying some further details.

And again you misquote me: “And you could watch that video and read what was said about it but could say nothing except that you believe that abortion is widely legal in Argentina?” I believe exactly the opposite – abortion seems to be extremely restricted in Argentina.

Now, you will have to try harder to be accurate in your assertions, especially about me, or I will stop conversing with you. It is very time consuming constantly having to correct your mistakes. If you were one of my students it would be different. Then it would be my job.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2, you stated that "I watched the videos in the two links you provided" - the only comment you made about the second video "(I cannot tell if they are TFP)". No comment about the absolute degrading behaviour of the protesting women - rubbing their naked breasts against those good young Catholic men and spitting at them.

With your attitude you can rest assured I would never have someone like yourself tutoring me because you would obviously gloss over any of the extremely bad examples and paint only a good picture of things that are vile and evil. Just as you have had no time - you claim - to look at the vile incidents in the New York Islamic Day parade. You have plenty of time to look at everything else. To me the simple reason is that the behaviour of many of those marchers completely blows away the myth you are perpetrating of Islamists wanting to live in harmony in the US. If they did they would never countenance such a parade.

So what about the TFP? They are good upright standing young Catholic men which is more than can be said for the spitting and filth that exudes from the pro-aborts and pro-homosexuals - behaviour that you totally ignore. Therefore the ordinary person could only assume that you approve of it. Why single out good people for abuse while remaining silent on vile behaviour? Also no comment from you about throwing homosexuals off the roof to celebrate the US Court's decision on gay marriage.

The only negative comments you make are against those holding up Church teaching, while you conveniently turn a blind eye to the vile behaviour exhibited by the groups you claim to empathise with.


Anonymous said...

"They (TFP) are good upright standing young Catholic men..."

Argentina: The publications of the Argentinian TFP have been described as embodying a discourse of violence legitimating the authorities' suppression of civil rights. In 1973 the Buenos Aires provincial police investigated military training activities conducted by the TFP. [28] Around 1976 or 1977 a Father Vicente was forced to flee to Uruguay with the assistance of the Jesuit Provincial, Jorge Bergoglio (later Pope Francis), after having been threatened by TFP for preaching against the murder of three Pallottine priests and two seminarians.

Brazil: TFP also urged the military government to arrest Archbishop Hélder Câmara for his support of land reform.[35] In 1969 Câmara linked the TFP indirectly to the murder in Recife of his aide, Father Antônio Henrique Pereira Neto.[27][39]

Chile: In 1976, during the Pinochet dictatorship, the TFP published a book maintaining that Catholics are duty bound to resist pastors and clergy who support the hierarchy, especially the defender of human rights Cardinal Raúl Silva Henríquez, who they said was leading the country toward Communism.[

South Africa: The Young South Africans for a Christian Civilisation (TFP) emerged in 1982, during the declining years of the apartheid regime, to resist "the liberal, socialist and communist trends of the times"[52] and to provide theological support for the idea of a natural inequality in society.

Anonymous 2 said...

Anon. Jan:

As soon as I got time I researched the New York Islamic Day parade and responded to you on the relevant thread. You then replied. And I have responded to that reply. However, my post about the parade crossed with yours on this thread accusing me of ignoring it.

As for your other accusations, they are as accurate as your accusations about Schellnhuber’s 2009 address reported in the New York Times, or your assumption that I am a woman, and just as there, so here you leap to unwarranted conclusions. Are you related to AA/Gene by any chance? This is the sort of thing he does. Or perhaps it is a common infection one contracts from exposing oneself too much to extremist blogs and other media..

No, of course, I do not approve of the behavior of the protesting women. That should go without saying, which is why I didn’t – say it that is. My point was that one cannot generalize from a country where abortion is mostly prohibited (Argentina) to one where is isn’t (the United States) because the kind of pent up anger and frustration rightly or wrongly felt by those women is not so likely to be present when again, rightly or wrongly, they already have that legal right.

And just to be clear, I also empathize with your own positions and attitudes, just as I do with AA’s. That does not mean, however, that I necessarily agree with the methods and policies that you and he might advocate to achieve ends that we commonly share as Catholics. But I am all too familiar with the inability to distinguish between means and ends (it is yet another manifestation of the increasing inability to engage in critical thinking). Thus, in this country, if someone dared to question the wisdom of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, he or she was almost reflexively labeled a terrorist sympathizer. Pathetic! And even more pathetic because the alleged “terrorist sympathizers” were proved correct!

George said...

Anonymous 2
"Thus, in this country, if someone dared to question the wisdom of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, he or she was almost reflexively labeled a terrorist sympathizer."

I've been around a wide variety of people since Mr. Bush and then Mr. Obama was elected President. Some of them are persons that I know through some of my family members. I've never heard that sentiment voiced, even by the ones that are much closer to Gene than you. As far as Internet political and news oriented blogs and the comments entered on those, that is where that kind of thing can be found. I just avoid the comments- when I use to read them I found most of them to be puerile,acrimonious,of dubious credibility,and devoid of anything substantive. To be fair, there are web sites out there where this is not the case such as those of a religious, technical,commecial and academic nature .

Anonymous 2 said...


I will try to find examples. Actually I thought after I posted that I needed to correct the post but I had to get to Mass and so did not have time. The correction was to say that opponents were almost reflexively called “unpatriotic” by those supporting the war on network media. I know I am on solid ground with that recollection, and I may well be on solid ground about being called ‘terrorist sympathizers.” My internet research skills may not be up to finding network footage from 2003 however, so I would appreciate help from any other readers who may be interested in this point.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2, it is good that you have finally made a statement against, which is the first time you have done so but it has taken a number of posts for you to finally get around to it. I assumed you are a woman because you write like one and some of your comments, e.g. using the word "nasty", are normally the type of argument a woman uses. Men argue in a much more dispassionate manner. In your response to the Islamic Day Parade, I don't see you being upset by any of the violent images, etc, displayed on the floats. Am I to presume that you are so shocked and horrified by it that you didn't feel the need to comment as you didn't about the bare breasted women?

I also put a question mark around whether you are a lawyer as you claim to be - as you don't fit the mould. Normally lawyers don't get involved in blogs and most are too busy to do so anyway. Also, they are very measured in their language, which you don't appear to be.

You are not by any chance related to Anon at 3.32 pm as the two of you seem to be on the same page.


Anonymous said...

Anon 3.32 pm/Anon 2 - the TFP has certainly fought against liberation theology in South America which St John Paul II The Great was so ardently against, hence no doubt the information you have gleaned from wikipedia. However, Catholic Answers says the following:

Catholic Answers recently contacted the Diocese of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, for an update on the status of Tradition, Family, and Property (the organization that sponsors America Needs Fatima), and was told that this group -- their national headquarters is located in Spring Grove, Pennsylvania -- has a good relationship with the diocese. To the knowledge of the person we spoke with, the diocese has not received negative reports about their activities. We also were told that once a year the Bishop of Harrisburg grants TFP permission to use a local parish for the celebration of the traditional Latin Mass. The spokesperson added that the presider is a Maronite priest, who is in good standing with the Diocese of Brooklyn.

For further information about Tradition, Family, and Property, we recommend contacting the Diocese of Harrisburg. I hope this information is helpful. God bless.
Recent apologetics answers by Michelle Arnold

I then went to the website of the American TFP and found the following recommendations from high ranking clergy:

“For years I have attentively followed the work of the TFPs and the luminous mark left upon them by their inspirer, Professor Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, whose thought and exemplary life have inspired me.”
Silvio Cardinal Oddi Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy

“I could not agree with you more on the need to take the Fatima message to Catholics across the world. Your campaign to bring devotions into homes and rekindle religious practice there is commendable.”

John Cardinal O’Connor Archbishop of New York
“There is a crying need to return to what you term ‘the defense of tradition, family, and property.’ TFP is most important in our time and what better way to do this than under direction of our Blessed Mother.”

Most Reverend A. Edward Pevec Auxiliary Bishop Emeritus of Cleveland
“I take this opportunity to thank you for the strong stand which you and the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family, and Property give in support of the the values of our Church”

Most Reverend David A. Zubik Bishop of Green Bay, Wisc.
“With all my heart, I commend the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property for promoting a reparation-protest in front of Alice Tully Hall at Lincoln Center. Those who are attending the rally of reparation will in all probability be given little or no publicity by those who control the news reports on radio or TV or in the newspapers. But what is far more important than that will be God’s blessing promised by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount: ‘Blessed are they who suffer persecution for the sake of justice, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.’”
Bishop George Edward Lynch Auxiliary Bishop Emeritus of Raleigh".


Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, the Internet lends itself to misinformation. There appears to be a number of individuals who spread slander and detraction against the upstanding group of lay Catholics known as the TFP -- Tradition, Family and Property. After doing considerable research and contacting the organization in person, the facts are most clear: The TFP is 100% faithful to the Magisterium of the Church. True, their bold stand against the sexual revolution is not popular among those who attack the Church, hence you will find attempts to defame their honor.

Check this page out for

God bless you.

Anonymous 2 said...

Anon. Jan:

Let’s see now. So far you have suggested that, unlike you I assume, I am not a real Catholic (because I do not immediately respond to your bullying, attempted “gotcha” tactics, and innuendos); that I am a woman (apparently because I use the word “nasty” and am insufficiently “dispassionate” in my posts); and now, that I not really a member of the legal profession (because I participate on a blog and because my posts are insufficiently” measured”). And unless I missed it, you still have not admitted your gross and repeated misreading of the New York Times article on Schellnhuber’s 2009 speech on global warming. You are in no position to complain that someone is not measured in their posts.

As for the New York Islamic parade, I asked you what you thought the imagery means and you said you were not interested – it is violent and that is enough for you. Enough for what, Anon. Jan? What do you conclude from the imagery? Isn’t it a matter of interpretation as to what they are saying with those images? Unlike you, I don’t want to leap to conclusions and wanted to give you an opportunity to explain how you interpreted it (I have my suspicions but I might be wrong). I suspect, however, that we are likely interpreting it differently.

Anonymous 2 said...

Anon. Jan and Anonymous:

Thank you for this additional information on TFP. In my original post I said “Although TFP’s American Branch does not appear to have run afoul of the Church authorities, this does not seem to be true in several other countries.” What you post is not inconsistent with what I said about the American TFP. Nor is it inconsistent with what is said about TFP in other countries, particularly in Latin America.

The Wikipedia article on TFP states (among many other things): “It has been pointed out that the group's citation of Catholic tradition is selective, drawing on speeches and encyclicals from the most conservative popes, including the 1864 Syllabus of Errors, while the social doctrine of the Church formulated from the pontificate of Leo XIII to the present is deliberately ignored.” Is this an incorrect statement?

I researched TFP because I believe it is important to try to understand the context of statements, people, and events before attempting to reach judgments about them and what they “mean” because when one delves more deeply things are very often different from the way they might appear on the surface.

Anonymous said...

Talked to some folks up here in the Atlanta area who would like to move---as in out of the country---after the disgraceful Supreme Court rulings last week--or even ponder if we need to break up this country. Maybe we could have the heathen North and West, the more traditionally religious South and Great Plains. We hear all the talk these days about "treason", how the South advocated that by seceding 150+ years ago too supposedly retain slavery. But has the Supreme Court over the last 50 years committed a form of treason by undermining our morals and finding ever new rights to a larger federal government and deviant behavior?

The Mount De Sales lawsuit is ridiculous. Should not even be heard. Make a motion for dismissal. Maybe he could go teach at an Episcopal school---he'd be welcome with open arms.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 2 your post at 3.41 - add the word "bullying" to the emotive words "nasty" and "innuendo" - has done nothing to change my opinions, aka you being a woman and not a lawyer. I note you don't deny either but just hedge about them as per usual. I don't make innuendo I state things as I see them and if you wish to hedge about without making clear statements than I will see you in a different light than the one perhaps you wish to portray. I am a Catholic and I uphold the Church's teaching against gay marriage, homosexuality, abortion, etc. Yes, I sympathise with people in that position because we are all sinners but I don't let that cloud my vision so that I don't speak out against those sins.

And there is no "leaping to conclusions" about the images portrayed on the New York Islamist Day parade. They clearly show that there are violent Islamists who have entered the USA otherwise there would not be such floats in the procession.

As regards the New York Times' article on Schellnhuber’s 2009 speech on global warming, I quoted directly from the NYT article and from other articles which reported the 2009 speech and clearly show what he stated about the 1 billion earth carrying capacity. Some people, like yourself, just refuse to face the facts.


Anonymous 2 said...

Anon. Jan:

I give up. We’re done here.

Templar said...

You made Anon 2 shut up Jan. You deserve a medal.