I can't answer the question above, as I am but a most humble, poor priest, liberally educated in theology in the late 1970's in a very ultra liberal seminary. I am not a psychiatrist, so I wouldn't eve venture a guess. This photos are not posed but from Sunday's EF Mass. But have at it:
18 comments:
"WHY DO SO MANY VIEW THIS WITH DERISION, SUSPICION AND HATRED?"
They were brainwashed into thinking that. As a kid in the mid-70s, I distinctly remember believing that the Church that I was learning about from the nuns in CCD was only a few years old. CCD at the time was an endless rant about love, hand holding, swaying to music and other clap-trap that had little to do with a 1,976 year old sacramental institution. I absolutely hated going and routinely fought against it as I found it to be so boring. It wasn't until we started going to stay with my grandmother that I discovered that what I was being taught at the time did not add up at all with what I saw taking place in her church - at that time, they were still using their high altar for the celebration of mass (it is still used for benediction and is much loved to this day). I vividly remember the first time attending mass there and being totally and completely amazed at what I saw.
I have not an ounce of experience with this mass, but I find it beautiful, respectful and HOLY.....how anyone could take issue with it is beyond comprehension.
What was the turning point in your life that made you say all this liberal theology is hogwash? What were you first steps away from that and more toward the direction that you're going now? Was there any struggle in your diocese then or today from brother priests or bishops? or parishioners? Are there like minded priests in your diocese? what are the percentages like you?
It was gradual. I credit the late Bishop Lessard for putting his thumb on me when I was assigned to our cathedral in 1985 and the mentoring he offered. He was very Vatican II but with its documents not so much its spirit. While his personality was not to the liking of many of our priests during his tenure, he was a great teacher and taught priests and laity regularly and on a rotating basis throughout our diocese. He had a vision for the diocese and how to consult with priests and laity. When Pope John Paul allowed the EF Mass on a limited basis in the 80's he consulted with his pastoral center staff, of which I was a member, to discern if that permission should be given. I was opposed to it and recommended that the OF Latin Mass and ad orientem be used. Most everyone else on the staff was opposed, so he did not pursue it.
Apart from that reading Cardinal Ratzinger helped me, long before he became pope (and in fact Lessard asked me to read his books on the liturgy.)
Liberals have many straw men, Latin, ad orientem and certainly the EF Mass. Lay participation becomes a god, not so much the general participation from the pew, but the few who read and are Eucharistic ministers.
And then you will know something is good by its fruit. The decline in Catholic participation, 12% attend Mass on Sunday and the status quo despite this, convinced me to be more open to pre-Vatican II customs and liturgy. But that does not mean I reject Vatican II at all, but that I also embrace what has transpired for the better since then, in particular summorum Pontificum and Pope Benedict's renewal in continuity.
I had a funeral once and had planned the liturgy with the family, only to have a relative from another state intervene with her own lists of songs to be sung. I ignored it. But along the way, we were taught that others should plan the liturgy no matter how poor their choices are. Then at the wake service she asked for her family member to read the Scripture and her children to bring up the gifts. I told her no,we have suspended bringing up the gifts, we don't need eucharistic ministers and we had already chosen a lector at the meeting I had with the family. She said, well, how are we to participate and I said, but doing so from the pew. That's the most important act of participation. she didn't realize that, given how we have clericalized the laity in our liturgy.
"Liberals have many straw men, Latin, ad orientem and certainly the EF Mass. Lay participation becomes a god,...
There's a pretty obvious straw man right there, Fr. ALLAN McDonald. Lay participation isn't a "god," it isn't worshipped.
Lay participation, including EM's and lectors, is fosterred and welcomed by the Church as a good.
There are always those who go to extremes in their views, both traddies and VAT II spiriters. But lay participation isn't a bad thing per se.
That is a great question. I can't say there was one turning point......my Spiritual journey took root long after Vatican II so it is the only thing I have known. I was part of the Charismatic Renewal for some time, played the guitar in all those hoot nanny masses, but was fortunate to have a close priest friend and guide who led me into an interior journey through centering prayer, which became a stronghold. So as much as I was raised with the "Liberal Theology" something in my spirit has been rebelling against it for years now. I was aching for "The SACRED" and The HOLY" and what I was getting was worse than clown masses in my opinion.....its was a sense of "indifference". Communion is given in a "rush"....there is no sense whatsoever that this is a sacred meal and we are receiving Jesus..at least not in my parish. Overall in my Diocese there are good priests......moderate....not in any way crazy liberal or crazy conservative. There is 1 Latin mass that I know of that is quite a distance from where I live. There are some in my parish who are quite Militant, which is the other end of the spectrum that does not do it for me. Most of those people are older and angry and more than happy to tell me how to pray, who to pray to, and what I should be praying for. It has always been a mixed bag...and we are all coexisting somehow together. This blog is my first real taste of the Pre Vatican tradition and I am learning a lot here. There are certain things I am drawn to and a lot of things, most things actually, I don't understand. What is obvious to me just from the pictures is a sense of the Sacred. Reverence, even if I don't understand the rubrics. Its a continuing journey and I have no idea where it will take me, but the more I see here the more I am drawn and would like to know and experience more.
Father Kavanaugh,
Except Mass attendance collapsed after the things you cite were introduced
Fr. MJK,
I did not take Fr. AJM's comments to be broad-brush regarding lay participation. There are, without question, those who take it to an extreme, however. I agree with you, lay participation, fundamentally, is not a bad thing.
I remember as a teenage altar boy in 1965 being required as part of my duties at a weekday Mass to read the Epistle, Gradual and Alleluia in an approved translation. One line sticks in my memory: 'The just man shall flourish as the palm tree flourishes; he shall grow to greatness as the cedars grow on Lebanon ...'
I now know that it is the Gradual 'Justus ut palma florebit' from the Mass 'Os justi' which would have come up quite often on saints' days during the week. Funny thing, no-one thought to tell me at the time that I was exercising the important lay ministry of 'lector'. I did see it as some compensation for the recent loss of many of the server's traditional roles.
Calling lay readers 'lectors' is not a good idea since it can be confused with the instituted ministry of that title, but I assume it makes the poor dears feel important. It also seems to be an American affectation.
To use EMHC as a means of fostering lay participation is an abuse. 'Only out of true necessity is there to be recourse to the assistance of extraordinary ministers in the celebration of the Liturgy. Such recourse is not intended for the sake of a fuller participation of the laity but rather, by its very nature, is supplementary and provisional.' (Redemptionis Sacramentum para.151).
There was a case where a rostered EM was told before Mass that her services were not required as there was a visiting deacon. This offended her amour-propre to the extent that she publicly complained. This shows the drawback of formal lay participation; it can be seen by certain individuals as elevating them above others and giving them a sense of entitlement.
On a couple of occasions I have acted as one of two cantors at Solemn Latin Vespers (I should point out that in this context a cantor is NOT someone who stands at the ambo waving his or her arms about). We both wore copes over choir dress. It added solemnity to the occasion, and there is a long tradition of 'lay clerks' wearing copes. In the Church of England on solemn occasions the cross-bearer wears a dalmatic.
I did not see myself as performing a lay ministry in the way it is commonly understood these days. A few years ago I was at a chant weekend which included two sung Latin Masses (one EF, the other OF). I was asked to MC both, assisted by a thurifer who was actually an Anglican! At the OF Mass the priest asked me to administer the chalice, and I could hardly refuse. I was not comfortable with it, I have to say.
John Nolan,
I don't know if you suffered through this in England, but shortly after the "reforms" were introduced, we were plagued with "Guitar Masses" with long haired boys strumming up front in the sanctuary. I suggested they move to the back of the Church or the choir loft. They were outraged because they saw themselves as performers first and foremost. Fortunately, we have recovered our sanity a bit in the US and it is extremely rare now to be confronted with this sort of music in Church. Given collapsing attendance at Sunday Mass, this is another strategy which did not achieve its purported purpose of "attracting the young." Quite the opposite occurred.
What did me in was about 10-15 years ago, when attending mass with a teen rock group - the musicians/singers being setup in the sanctuary. The drummer, sat there in a white t-shirt, an undershirt, totally disengaged/disinterested with his back to the altar only coming "alive" when it was time for the next "number". This was less amplified with the others within the group but, nonetheless there as well. The celebration of mass seemed completely antithetical to the musical accompaniment. I refuse to ever attend one of those masses again.
Pierre,
As a teenager I had little experience of Mass outside my own parish and assumed that what I was getting was pretty universal. At sixteen I stopped serving Mass regularly since the server had little to do compared with what I had been trained to do in 1959. My first experience of a 'youth Mass' was in 1968 when I was seventeen. I served it alongside a girl of my own age and despite the fact that I fancied the pants off her, I was singularly unimpressed. By then I had grown out of pop music. The Beatles' 'Sergeant Pepper' could not compete with Schubert's great C Major symphony. The priest concerned left shortly afterwards since he could not accept HV.
At university I read myself back into the Catholic Church, which I had never really left despite my disillusionment, but it was attending Solemn Latin Mass at the London Oratory from 1973 onwards when I realized that there was life after Vatican II.
Nearly half a century on and I am fortunate in that I don't have to put up with the average parish Mass. Even were there no alternative I would not feel any obligation to attend. I have always maintained that obligation is a two-way process. It made sense when Mass was much the same everywhere. It makes no sense now.
Father, this is a little off topic but is worth mentioning. Today EWTN broadcast a Mass from Poland for the feast of Our Lady of Czestochowa. Since my husband is from Poland we were very interested to watch. I wasn't sure what to expect but it was a real breath of fresh air! The Mass (Novus Ordo) was beautifully celebrated. The priest announced at the beginning that it would be celebrated in Latin "because it is the official language of the church". The reading/Gospel were in English but the rest was all Latin and ad orientem. The ordinary was Mass VIII and Credo III. Everything was very reverent without any embellishments by the celebrant. During Communion the schola chanted Adoro Te Devote alternating verses with Latin and Polish, and the Salve Regina was sung at the conclusion.
It was just wonderful to participate in this Mass halfway around the world and have the prayers and chants so familiar, a perfect example of the unifying force of Latin.
Another interesting aspect was to see people "walking" on their knees up and down the side aisles the entire time in devotion to the icon of the Black Madonna which hung over the main altar.
Mallen
Father at at the TLM Sunday and a group of four sat about 5 minutes to 1 PM and once they spotted on the bulletin that this 1 PM was TLM they got up and left. So so sad as they missed a most beautiful mass of the ages.
As for the NO I gave up on it for good now. I’m waiting for jealous priests and Bishop’s to prevent priests from offering the TLM. It’s coming and I expect we’ll end up like the English during Henry and Elizabeth hiding priests in our homes and offering the TLM in secret.
Paul McCarthy
In 1960, when I was eight or nine, we had a visiting priest from one of the ancient oriental Churches in communion with Rome. He looked very impressive in an enveloping gold vestment and an 'Afro' hairstyle. He celebrated one of the Sunday Masses using an unfamiliar rite in an unfamiliar language. The parish priest introduced him and reassured the congregation that although this was not the Latin Mass with which we were all familiar, it was still the Mass, and moreover the Aramaic language used was close to that used by Jesus and his disciples.
Would this happen nowadays? I doubt it. He would be made to celebrate or concelebrate a Novus Ordo in English, lest those like your gang of four should walk out. In 1960 we were Catholic in more senses than one.
Who's hating this? Nobody. If people enjoy this and want to worship this way, more power to them. Why are you always playing the victim?
About ten years ago there was an article in the UK's Catholic Herald by a former editor-in-chief who had a regular column (he died in 2016 aged 89 and was a respected author and commentator who represented what might be called the liberal wing). He wrote of attending an EF Mass, which he would presumably have had to seek out. He recounted his indignation at being refused Communion in the hand, although he must have been well aware that this would happen. He summed up the Mass as 'an effeminate farce'.
This was same Mass that he had attended for half his lifetime. When Benedict XVI promulgated Summorum Pontificum one Italian bishop was so distressed that he regarded it as the ruin of everything he had worked for.
Such extreme reactions are not uncommon. Quite rational people see the mere existence of the traditional Roman Rite as some kind of threat. My only explanation is that the greatest fear of all revolutionaries is counter-revolution. Bugnini said that it would take twenty years before his and Paul VI's new Mass could be firmly established, which is why he wanted the old Rite to be judicially abrogated. As we know, he was told that such an act would be 'abhorrent'.
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