Are Fr. Jim and Sr. Campbell Vatican II success stories? I am sure both of them, more than likely, support pro choice politicians who have no problem with the extermination of 61,628,584 and counting, babies since Roe V. Wade, but they (the politicians and Fr. Jim and Sr. Campbell) are in favor of assisting those who survived pregnancy because of a pro-life mother, with social services in order to soothe their guilty consciences. And yes, they support a mask mandate that criminalizes those who don't wear them unless you are in a so-called peaceful protest that becomes a riot. At least they are pro life for the small minority who test positive for COVID-19 in the world’s population and even smaller percentage in the world’s population who die of it. Compare those numbers with babies murdered by abortion throughout the world. At least their deaths keep The number in poverty and the number who die from COVID-19 lower.
And of course they will betray Christ by enabling sexual aberrations that poke a needle in the Church's eye, except for those Catholics like Ms. Rita and Fr. Tony who applaud interpreting Vatican II in rupture with what preceded in order to sing into being a new post Catholic Church.
Of course we'll have to hear what Sr. Campbell and Fr. Jim will have to say, but if they say things that break with the morals of the Church and thus go into schism with the true Church and her pope and bishops, will they, like the priest in Sacramento be excommunicated????? And who does the excommunicating?
Press title for the National Chismatic Reporter's (NCR) which has been the main formator of Chismatic Catholic clergy, religious and laity since the 1960's, for the Chismatic story:
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Inasmuch as there is no excommunicatable offense, neither a bishop nor a pope can impose that penalty.
Of course, that little fact won't convince you...
I was listening to a podcast from Taylor Marshall (Ok--I know what some of you think about him) and he noted a couple of things: Joe Biden is already running commercials that seem to imply the pope's endorsement. At the same time, Pope Francis has made no secret of his dislike of President Trump. Even MORE interesting is that Trump, who won most of the Catholic vote in the last election, has made it a point to reach out to marginalized Catholics.
What struck me was Marshall's observation that a USCCB employeeWha has already publicly praised "Catholic" Biden's selection of Kamala Harris, noting that if someone at the USCCB had said something similar about Trump or Pence, that person would be clearing out his/her desk right now.
Anyway, it's obvious that the "respectable" "establishment" Church supports "Catholics" like Biden and Pelosi, while the marginalized seem to veer more towards Trump. It will be interesting to watch how this plays out, because the marginalized are becoming less and less a minority and the "mainstream" is anything but.
Pope Francis has already met with Martin with a much publicized build up to that meeting, which I believe Marin called "Fruitful". Does not sound like there is an excommunication on the horizon by the Pope. I will stick with the Ipso Facto scenario.
Our resident fake catholic, Anonymous at 6:52 AM, has weighed in.
According to Father Martin, in order for the Churches teaching to be "Authoritative" it has to be "accepted".
https://www.churchmilitant.com/main/generic/fr.-james-martin-sj
I wonder if THAT was discussed in his meeting with Pope Francis?
Historically Catholics accepted the Church’s teachings on sexuality. Vatican opened the door to change on that which forced Paul VI to say it ain’t so by 1968.eben then the pope realized what a Pandora’s box Vatican II has become. He tried and failed to restore some sanity to Vatican II in subsequent years. I guess Martin would say this about the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption. If Catholics no longer believe these they aren’t true. Seems lie a logic fallacy to me..
BTW, Martin is guilty of being a cheerleader for those who are apostacizing which is more of an ecclesiastical crime than the schism he supports. And more than a cheerleader and instigator! Excommunication now ipso facto!
"Excommunication now ipso facto!"
You probably meant "de facto," but that's what you often do when you venture into linguistic terra incognita.
You still haven't cited the excommunicatable offense.
There are a lot of Democatholics who follow Papa Giuseppe's teachings .
"Archbishop of Dublin criticises “narrowness and bitterness” of Catholics who confuse zeal for the Church with intolerance, disrespect"
https://novenanews.com/archbishop-dublin-catholics-church-intolerance/
And the Church wonders why only 12% of Catholics are practicing... At this point, after pandemic-o-mania has passed, I’m willing to bet even that 12% will be lessened.
Hey, at least it will be an ecumenical affair! The bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington will speak too. I'm sure her (yes, her) remarks will be enlightening....
A Quote from the Novena News article:
"The Church of Jesus Christ must be a church where people are welcomed, respected and cherished even in their difference. Hatred and intolerance can never foster goodness and love."
This is the truth. But they are also welcomed to embrace the Church teaching as it stands.....not as they want it to be. People like Father Martin want to "rewrite" those teachings in order to make our "different" brothers and sisters feel welcome and accepted.
That is just plain WRONG and that is what we are defending with ZEAL.
Before I get attacked.....perhaps "rewrite" is not the entirely correct word.......perhaps "reinterpret" would be a better fit......either way its WRONG.
Let’s be blunt. Father Martin wants the Church to sanction oral and anal sex between men, fruitful and multiply be damned
Uh....Yup. That would be it.........
I agree with Anonymous at 3:04 it's time to be blunt with everything, we are all adults here and call it for what it is like it or not, Father Martin wants gay sex to accepted by the Church plain and simple, whether he is gay or not I don't know but many of the bishops are it is the truth YOU have to say this Father I know you may not like what I have to say but by God you must at least agree with it and I understand you cannot say this publicly. The Church cannot continue like this, just like this country cannot continue on this road to Communism.
I don't know if anyone saw the BEATING of the man in Portland Oregon last night? But I sure did, it was absolutely appalling, it should send shock waves through everyone who watches it. He was trying to escape from Black Lives Matter you know the Communist organization founded by three black Lesbian self proclaimed Marxist's funded by George Soros. He crashed his truck trying to escape the BLM mob who now run downtown Portland and as he tried to get out of his truck he was pulled out and beating until he was unconscious, you can see the entire video on Breitbart or The Gateway Pundit, my friends you must watch this for a reason and that is to show what we are up against. The Democrat party is NOT the party of our parents or grandparents, if JFK was alive today he would be considered a Conservative, this is how far the Democrat party has come. The Democrat party is sick it has been taken over by the far left and is totally anti-American, anti-family,pro-abortion, anti police, anti-military, anti-Christian more so anti-Catholic, pro-open borders. Come November the choice is clear and concise vote Trump or the man in the basement who will usher in total Communism the warnings are on view nightly in Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Denver, St.Louis, Washington D.C.
Two churches exist now the Catholic Church and the Schismatic all under One Holy Catholic Church, but one belongs to Satan and the other Our Lord. I know who’s going to win that fight and it won’t be the sodomites.
By the way what’s wrong with Taylor Marshall more faithful then listening to a schismatic like Barron.
Joe Biden says we could save 40,000 lives if governors across the 50 states mandated masks. But Joey, we could probably save that many lives in 2 weeks if we shut down the nation's abortion mills. Sure, there would still be illegal abortions, but no law ever gets 100 percent enforcement (certainly when it comes to speeding!), and maybe that would serve as a deterrent to those who participate in the "hook up" culture and now can still engage in such behavior without earthly consequences. Hopefully some Catholics notice that Kamala is anti-Catholic, like one time questioning a Catholic judicial nominee who was a member of the Knights of Columbus, Kamala noting that the Knights oppose "a woman's right to choose." No Kamala, they don't oppose a woman's right to choose, but they like most sane people think that the time to choose is before the woman and the man get intimate---not after. Pregnancy after all is not contagious....it is not a disease.
Paul McCarthy,
I don't think there's anything at all wrong with Taylor Marshall, but the mere mention of his name immediately polarizes some Catholics. He has especially lost some of his "respectability" (acceptance by the "mainstream") since he has begun to publicly question Vatican II.
I use the term post Catholic as Post Christian which is defined in this way:
A postchristian society is one in which Christianity is no longer the dominant civil religion but that has gradually assumed values, culture, and worldviews that are not necessarily Christian (and also may not necessarily reflect any world religion's standpoint or may represent a combination of either several religions ...
Fr Kavanaugh,
I am aware that you like to trip up Fr McDonald where you can, but 'ipso facto' and 'de facto' mean the same in Latin. But you only use pedantry when it suits you, otherwise you would have said 'into linguistic terram incognitam'.
Well Dr. Taylor Marshall, Michael Voris of Church Militant, The Remnant Newspaper , Rorate, and others have every right ask about Vatican II, we want answers as to why it destroyed our beautiful churches, no Latin, Gregorian chant, hand holding, kiss of peace, altar girls, guitars, piano, drums, clown masses, men and women in leotards prancing around the dinner table with incense, closed convents, closed seminaries, closed Catholic schools and hospitals, thousands of churches closed, and 10% Mass attendance as compared to 75% before the New Springtime, these are all VALID questions that need to be asked.
I'm a Catholic Priest and have been for 39 years. I am no Canon Law expert, but I do know a few things. I haven't studied Fr. Martin or this Sister's statements. There are just too many other good things to read. But here's my take.
If either of these two has publicly supported abortion from a place of power then they suffer automatic ex-communication. If they've merely associated themselves with abortion supporting thugs and gone to their festivities and entered their Temples of Worship (ie Abortion Clinics or a Planned Parenthood Rally or some such meal in which they stab the beast with their steely knives but just can't kill the beast, then only they know if they have entered into the gates of the netherworld called "Pro-choice) and they would be accountable before God. But not being able to read their minds I cannot say that they ARE excommunicated. There are others who have spoken up loud and clear who call themselves Catholic but are, in my tiny opinion, doing exactly what Canon Law and Theology say puts them in the position of being outside the Church and wearing the costume, but not being a real and authentic Catholic.
If anyone has quotes that would show that these two actually publicly support "abortion rights" then they are in the same boat as were the Nazis. The bishop of Mainz, Germany, excommunicated every Catholic member of the Nazi party in his diocese. He banned uniformed groups from entering churches and forbade Nazis from taking part in funerals and other services.
The same folks who tell Priests to "shut up" about politics often criticize the Church for not doing enough to stop the murderous and racist Nazi thugs.
Publish what Martin and this "sister" said and we can see if they have suffered automatic excommunication or not.
If you want to know about excommunications, ask a canon lawyer like Ed Peters. Remember, just because a sin can send you to Hell does not mean it is marked out in canon law to be punished with excommunication.
"If either of these two has publicly supported abortion from a place of power then they suffer automatic ex-communication."
Incorrect.
Canon 1398 "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication."
Public support for abortion is NOT a delict that results in latae sententiae excommunication.
And the woman is question is not a "sister." She is a vowed religious woman since 1973. She is a member of the Sisters of Social Service, founded in Hungary in 1923. She earned a JD degree from the UC Davis School of Law when she served as editor of their Law Review. She practiced Family Law and worked for the poor in her county through her local probate court.
So, "father" Higgins, show some respect for the vowed women religious who, as we know, often do the bulk of the work.
Whether Father Higgins gets the canonical issue exactly right I will leave to others, as I am not a canonist either. However, he hits on a very important point, namely that just because someone, even a cleric or a religious, says or does things that are seriously objectionable, that does not mean they are subject to excommunication.
People misunderstand what excommunication is. It is not simply another way of saying "sinner," even in a grave sense. There are any number of mortal sins you and I can commit that will certainly send us to hell (if we do not repent), but will never draw excommunication in any fashion. Why is that?
This is because excommunication is intended to express the grave ecclesial damage certain sins cause -- that is, that aside from their intrinsic perversity, they also damage the fabric of the Church. Further, excommunication is not simply a punishment, but is meant to serve as a warning: that someone is not only imperiling his/her own soul, but the souls of others, and thereby, the well being of the Church.
It is worth remembering that since all this is a product of centuries of custom and practice; therefore, it is possible that, even in the wake of several codifications and revisions of canon (i.e., church) law, that there isn't necessarily consistency in all this.
Also keep in mind that there is a legal principle at work here: strict laws are applied strictly. This means that in order for someone to be subject to a penalty, the law in question is applied narrowly, so as to give the one who will be penalized every advantage. Which serves to amplify the point: that every offense is not going to be subject to excommunication.
Anonymous@ 1:40PM
Yes they do the "Bulk" of the very taxing work of supporting "Pro" abortionists.......very respectable work indeed.
In April of 1962, Archbishop Joseph Rummel excommunicated Leander Perez and two other opponents of integration. Perez led a movement to pressure businesses into firing any whites who allowed their children to attend the newly desegregated Catholic schools.
He was to say the least, far from being an exemplary Catholic. He was a vehement supporter and promoter of segregation.
As far as Joe Biden and other Catholics, if they financially contributed to Planned Parenthood or actively promoted and supported abortion,(or, in the case of Biden, would do so if elected) then Houston, we have a problem.
Father Higgins and Father Fox have both cleared up a few nuances on excommunication. Although it has been over six decades since I studied Basic Theology, it it my understanding that there is little difference in effect between formal excommunication, automatic excommunication and de facto excommunication. The latter simply being not in a state of grace to receive the Eucharist until satisfactory reconciliation and repentance. NB. What gives with all the "anonymous" postings? Do we have some worthies who are concerned that they will be kicked out of their social clubs for unorthodox thinking?
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