Wednesday, January 25, 2012


Two Roman (Roaming) Catholics deformed by the "spirit of Vatican II" catechesis and arrogance:

From Catholic World News: USCCB spokeswoman contrasts HHS treatment of Amish, Catholics
January 25, 2012

In requiring Catholic agencies to provide insurance that covers contraception and sterilization, the Department of Health and Human Services has created an anti-Catholic double standard, according to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ director of media relations.

“Health and Human Services’ recent attacks on freedom of religion show it is deaf to religious sensibilities,” said Sister Mary Ann Walsh. “Even the Administration’s resounding defeat on January 11—when the US Supreme Court unanimously rejected the Administration’s reading of the First Amendment as ‘extreme,’ ‘untenable,’ and having ‘no merit’—couldn’t unplug its ears.”

“This egregious violation of religious freedom marks the first time in our history that the federal government is forcing religious people and groups to ante up for services that violate their consciences,” she continued. “The government allows other religions to live out their beliefs. The Amish and Christian Scientists have a conscientious objection to health insurance, and so the law exempts them from buying it. The government acknowledges the right of these religious groups to live out their religious convictions in US society. Why are beliefs of Catholics and others dismissed?”

My Question: Has anyone heard or seen any news coverage on this rather significant story concerning the current political administration in Washington? I've only seen a brief segment on Fox and Friends and it was very much on the side of the Church.


Templar said...

I have seen lots of coverage on it, but I get all my news via the Internet. I categorically refuse to watch TV News. I find that listening to those lying hacks does nothing but annoy me.

My own personal opinion is that this retched administration knows full well that this edict will be challenged and knocked down in Court before the 1 year compliance date, but simply doesn't care. It's purely a calculation to show it's base that it's out fighting for them so they'll show up at the polls in November. If they win the court challenge great, if not they can say "see we tried". In the end they don't give a hoot about contraception one way or the other, they see it only as an issue they can use to enlarge the Government and put more power in their hands.

My question is, does anyone other than me look at those cars in the parking lot at the Church with the Obama stickers on them and get the urge to ask those people how they honestly consider themselves Catholic?

pinanv525 said...

Templar, RE: bumper stickers...I just write them off as morons.

Marc said...

Good points there, Templar. I have to disagree with you regarding the administration not giving a hoot about contraception, though. It seems to me that the entire liberal policy these days is aimed at so-called population control from environmentalism to contraception to economics... it is all rooted in "controlling" the human population. Of course, the basis for that might be creating a smaller, more malleable population for the government to control, in which case you're exactly right.

Excellent point about the Obama bumper stickers. I have thoroughly reseached and contemplated Catholic voting (for a talk I gave to the Young Adults' Theology on Tap recently). I came to the conclusion that it is objectively a mortal sin (or at the least objectively grave matter) for a Catholic to vote for a politician of Obama's ilk.

I heard that Fr. McDonald made a similar (although assuredly more pastoral) remark in his homily at last Sunday's Mass without skirting too close to relieving us of our tax-free status.

I agree with pin that the people with those bumper stickers are, shall we say, ignorant of their responsibilities as Catholics, if we are giving them the benefit of the doubt. Of course, now that they have been instructed by their priest, they really have no excuse.

Anonymous said...

NPR gave good coverage to the story.

Templar said...

Marc, I should have clarified my thoughts better. They do care about contraception as it applies to their sex without responsibility agenda, but as far as BHO and this policy announced at this time, its all about clinging to power. He knows that 1 more term and he will be able to affect permanent changes. In that regard he could give a hoot if it holds up, just so long as it gets him votes.

I'd think him the Anti-Christ but I can't imagine him needing a teleprompter to string 2 sentences together without stammering like an idiot.

Anonymous said...

I saw coverage, but then I've been known to read Drudge.

Unfortunately, Templar, I wish I shared your conviction that the court will overturn the ruling. I do think there are solid grounds for doing so if the Court wants to, but it isn't a slam dunk. The fact that the Supremes unanimously ruled in favor of the Lutherans on a free exercise case (Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC) does suggest that they're still sensitive to religious liberty, but that ruling was on a different issue than the one that is involved with the HHS ruling.

Marc said...

Even as a former atheistic Communist, I don't understand the root of the liberal agenda insofar as it relates to population control and essentially, hedonism. I agree, Templar, that it does appear that that is exactly the liberal administration's agenda. But, it seems so childish that it is difficult to comprehend adults, so-called educated people adhering to the "pleasure without consequences" mentality and supporting that as a political position.

Templar, you are definitely right that this is a major turning point where one more term may have the effect of creating a new norm. Unfortunately, the socially conservative population gets terrible representatives and representation from the Republicans. So, it is not a stretch for me to see people who share the more conservative viewpoint to find it very hard to vote for such sorry candidates. American Conservatism is always shown in an ignorant light these days in most popular culture and media outlets; whereas, liberalism is always shown as the more cultured, intellectual position. That is difficult to overcome, particularly with regard to young and (oftentimes) over educated (in their minds) voters.

Laura said...

They have been running several segments on Sirus/XM Catholic radio stations as well.

Anonymous said...

If there is a silver lining to this it is that the Administration is getting its information about the Church from Pelosi, Sebelius, and Biden and will be setting themselves up for legitimate challenges every time.


Chopdawg said...

As a former United Methodist currently enrolled in RCIA classes, the tone of comments on this page disturb me greatly.

Does Catholicism not allow any room for honest discussion? Does the Church vilify all its people who carefully consider all the issues, not just one, when voting? That's the impression I got in my RCIA class last night, and it's certainly what I'm picking up in this blog today.

Marc said...


There is room for honest discussion in Catholicism, but there is also an objective truth in the world. In the case of a politician who supports the intrinsic evil of abortion, there is really no room for Cafholics to overlook that stance and consider that politician's position on other issues (usually people will discuss war or economics on this connection). Every other moral stance of the politician is probably not one dealing with an intrinsic evil. However, supporting abortion is an intrinsic evil. Therefore, to vote for a politician with such a stance is certainly grave matter (and likely mortal sin) for Catholics. So, yes, generally speaking, in the present situation in American politics, Catholics are somewhat forced to be myopic and focus on the abortion issue as it is the most crucial.

If there were a variety of politicians with differing viewpoints on other issues while all holding to a pro-life stance, there would be more room for discussion. So, you see, it is not the Church who has shut down the discussion, it is the politicians who fail to turn away from supporting the evil of abortion to allow other issues to become primary.

I think what you're seeing in the comments so far is that the people on this blog skipped over the discussion part and went to the lamenting part (which we have a tendency to do).

I hope this helps! Feel free to ask any more questions, as I am sure the people on this blog, including Father will be happy to answer!


Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Chopdawg the problem with blogs and comments is the one dimensional nature of it--face to face or oral communication for discussion is much better and we certainly can read into comments feelings and thoughts that aren't there, but yes, some comments can be very vitriolic and do not open the way to constructive dialogue or conversation, of course written. It is better to criticize ideas rather than those who make their ideas known.

The abortion issue in our country so critical and now this administration trying to curtail religious liberty and freedom of conscience for religious institutions and primarily now the Catholic Church means that we as Catholics have to be a political force to be reckoned with similar to what the Catholic Church was able to do in Poland, needs to to in China. In fact Pope John Paul II was very political but with a Catholic understanding of Catholic politics and "incarnating" our beliefs in the world, including politics and overthrowing governments through elections that violate natural law and divine law.
We can't allow politics that are opposed to God and His Church to overwhelm our Catholic people. We live in critical times.

pinanv525 said...

Chopdawg, This blog is peopled by mostly conservative Catholics who believe the Bible and the Church mean what they say. Why have any discussion with those who philosophically oppose the Church? Now, if there are those who are uneducated and uncatechized, then discussion in an effort to bring them up to speed on orthodoxy is fine. But, there is no point in trying to dialogue with those who are enemies of the Church.

Also, for a Catholic there is more than one issue. The Catechism speaks against communism and socialism as godless tyrannies. It condemns homosexuality and the violation of the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman. Obama is a communist by belief and action and is in favor of homosexual marriage and gay rights.
When you come to the Catholic Church, you leave that wishy-washy, feel good Methodist theology behind...welcome to strong doctrine and right belief. God bless you in your journey.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

One should always keep in mind that Pin is a former Presbyterian minister and thus has a perspective that those of us who are cradle Catholic don't have, but as PIN knows, sometimes I've had to delete his comments if he enters into name calling of any kind, because being Catholic also means following the Golden Rule and loving even those who disagree with us or participate in evil.

pinanv525 said...

FR., Can I only love them as little bit?

Anonymous said...

Chopdawg, the Church allows, wisely, for an amazing latitude in our displays of faith. OTOH on some things She is pretty hard over about. You know how when you try to tell someone, politely, to stop messing with you that there are people who will not only take that as a sign to see just how much they can mess with you? Sometimes you need to let them know that even asking the question is too far.

I will not negotiate away another person's life, and anyone that approaches me thinking that I will has misread me. If I come across as harsh then they can at least be grateful that I saved them the discussion time.

Know this: if you will find it in yourself to stand by someone without regard to any quality about them, without reason, only because it is Right and Just, then the same will be done for you.