I hope Pope Leo XIV reminds Cardinal Roche, the Prefect for Dicastery for Divine Worship that the Church is united in Christ, not in the rigid uniformity of the style of Divine Worship.
Cardinal Roche seems to think that the entire Church, east and west, should be celebrating the Bugnini Mass in order to bring the entire Church into liturgical unity, thus very little room for the TLM or any other rite of the Catholic Church, East or West. It is truly a shocking assertion coming from a Cardinal who is the Prefect for the Dicastery of Divine Worship. Did I say SHOCKING?
Fortunately, thus far, the Cardinal’s wrong and inane words about liturgical unity given in an interview printed by the Tablet hasn’t made its way to Vatican News at all. The good Cardinal also asserted that Pope Leo will not suppress or modify Traditionis Custodis, even to rehabilitate Pope Benedict’s authentic vision for liturgical unity and peace as he articulated in Summorum Pontificum!
Hopefully Pope Leo isn’t as rigid about liturgical unity as Cardinal Roche is—time will tell. But in my most humble opinion, I don’t think His Holiness is rigid!
All these “Masses” below are fully celebrating our Liturgical unity in the same Christ with the Vicar of Christ the visible head of the Church. Jesus Christ is the source of our unity as Catholics and all that He teaches, His Divine Truths. But our liturgical expressions of that Catholic Unity isn’t liturgical as our liturgies, thanks be to God, are quite diverse and flexible!
Yours truly, your friendly flexible post-Vatican II priest completely in union and unity with the Catholic Church and all her diverse and uniquely celebrated Divine Liturgies (Masses). No rigid uniformity with me!
Yours truly celebrating Mass is the Bugnini Mass facing the assembly! Yes, we are all experiencing Catholic Church unity here!!!!
This is the Congolese (Zaire or new African Rite) Mass. Very diverse from the traditional Bugnini Mass but yet we are all united as Catholics though through diverse liturgical forms !!!!
20 comments:
With Father McDonald's permission: Speaking of liturgy:
Father Thomas Petri, Fr. Thomas Petri OP, Dominican Friar, Doctor of Sacred Theology, Missionary of Mercy, posted the following to his X page:
https://x.com/PetriOP/status/2078675862199951644
"The challenges of the postconciliar era are not all about the rubrics and prayers of the Mass.
"One of the worst liturgical habits of the last several decades was making the Mass depend on the priest’s personality.
"Many priests were formed that way in seminary, with practicum classes emphasizing connection, active participation, and eye contact.
"One priest is folksy, another comic, and yet another determined to be “relatable.” The faithful could go from one parish to another and encounter markedly different celebrations.
"That harmed the Church, but it also harmed priests. Extroverted men who enjoyed this could easily harden into a signature style and identity within only a few years.
"Quiet and introverted men were made to feel that reverence and fidelity were not enough—that they also had to “work the room.”
"The rite carries the priest and the people. Even the Novus Ordo can.
"The priest does not need to manufacture an experience for the faithful or perform a personality.
"His task is simpler and greater: to celebrate what the Church has given him, and to let Christ remain at the center."
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The first comment posted to Father Petri's X page:
Ryan Ellis
@RyanLEllis
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"This is inextricably tied to versus populum orientation. "To deny this is irrational."
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There are plenty of folks who reject the notion that during Mass, versus populum has often turned various priests into "entertainers."
I have found that versus populum has long proved popular with Latin Church Faithful. That is true most especially among those who had grown up with the "old" Mass. Said folks do not want any part of Mass ad orientem.
I understand both sides of said argument.
In 1996 A.D., The Congregation for the Eastern Churches declared :
"It is not a question, as is often claimed, of presiding the celebration with the back turned towards the people, but rather of guiding the people in pilgrimage toward the Kingdom, invoked in prayer until the return of the Lord.
"Such practice...is thus of profound value and should be safeguarded."
Pope Leo XIV, if he desired, could promote the restoration of ad orientem worship throughout the Latin Church.
Pax
Mark Thomas
I do not have any reason to doubt that Cardinal Roche's declarations related to Traditionis Custodes, as well as Summorum Pontificum, reflected that which he has received from Pope Leo XIV.
During this past January's Consistory, for example, Cardinal Roche's powerful promotion of Traditionis Custodes had been authorized by Pope Leo XIV.
Anyway, God has called me to obey Pope Leo XIV. Therefore, I will accept happily that which Pope Leo XIV has/will taught/teach in regard to the above.
Deo gratias for Pope Leo XIV.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
From my experience, it was the Bugini Mass that devided the faithful. The country I come from is a multilingual society. Before the new mass people of different races worshipped together seated in the same pew. Been catholic, united the different races, although those of the other religions had racial issues. Then when the bugini mass was introduced, it separated Catholics by race and it introduced mistrust and animosity between even the Catholics of different races.
I would like to mention another experience I had at Lourdes. I was at late night mass with my family, at the grotto. There were people of many languages and countries. The mass was in French, but the exposition and benediction after the mass was in Latin. There
Pilgrims of many nationalities and languages, but as soon as the the priest intoned the O Salutaris and Tantum Ergo everyone took part and sang in Latin in one language. No overhead projectors, no hymn sheets, it was like the Pentecost. Everyone, although they were from a different part of the world sang in one language. Another note, the non-Christians, Hindus pray in Sanskrit, Buddhists in Pali and Muslims in ancient Arabic., where ever they are from and what ever language they speak. It is the ancient language that they pray in that unites them. The Western Hierarchy at the Vatican do not get these concepts, but the ancient fathers of the church did (may be they were from the east and had contact with other
Religions). Even to this day, the priests and faithful of those
Religions pray facing the same direction at their places of worship.
Joseph Ros notes: " Before the new mass people of different races worshipped together seated in the same pew."
That was not the experience in most of the United States. Churches here, Catholic or otherwise, were racially segregated. In some places a "white" church and a "colored" church were separate buildings, though served by the same clergy. Where I went to college at Belmont Abey this was the case. The colored chapel was 7 tenths of a mile from the Abbey Church.
The Southern Baptist Convention was formed in May 1845 in Augusta, Georgia, when the Southern Baptists, in favor of slavery, separated from the larger Baptist family.
This was not the case where I am from in Asia.
Fr. Kavanaugh can be rather provincial as are many native Savannahians. On the other hand, I grew up in Atlanta (an army parish) and in Augusta, a secular parish but with many army parishioners. In both we had many war brides from Italy (my mom one) Germany, France, Japan, Korea, and ultimately Viet Nam. We all went to the Latin Mass—no separate Masses for various language groups. We also had a huge number of Spanish speaking parishioners from Puerto Rico. No Spanish Masses to accommodate their linguistic preferences. We were all united under the Latin Mass as you were.
Joseph - I spoke of the United States.
Fr. ALLAN McDonald - There is nothing "provincial" about the racial segregation of Catholic Churches in Savannah, Atlanta, or anywhere else in the USA during the time of racial segregation across our country.
"Racial segregation mirrored the city's (Atlanta's) broader Jim Crow patterns, leading to the establishment of separate spaces like Our Lady of Lourdes Catholic Church for Black Catholics before mid-century integration efforts under Archbishop Paul J. Hallinan."
My experience at Lourdes, opened my eyes to why Catholics prayed in a common language. It was like the Pentecost, people of many languages in one place sang the O salutaris, Tantum Ergo and then the Hail Holy Queen in one common language, and every one belonged in there. I am not a native English speaker. I didn’t feel the same sense of belonging in Fatima where all the liturgies were in Portuguese. They had one decade of the rosary in English, but it was as if I was put in this box called English and I didn’t belong to the other language groups. I cannot find a mass in my native language in any part of the world except where I was born (I don’t currently live in the country I was born). My wife was born a Buddhist, so I know how they worship in one language where ever they are.
The “progressives” ignore St. John XXIII’s Veterum Sapientia which states “Latin is the language which joins the Church of today” (not yesterday). This was published around 1961. Satan hates Latin so he got rid of it the best he could and his minions were happy to assist. The result; Balkanization of the Faithful into language groups, disunity, and the loss of millions to the Faith. Congratulations “progressives!”
Joseph, several years ago when I was in Rome I attended a beatification of several Spaniards which was held in St. Peter’s Square. By far, there were more Spanish speaking Catholics there than any other language group. While some of the Mass was in Spanish, all the Kyrie was in Greek and the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei and Agnus Dei were in Latin and everyone was able to join in singing these common parts in a common language—it was amazing, but only the Spaniards sang the Spanish parts. Of course, Fr. Kavannaugh turns your first comment into one of race, not of language, That is par for the course for this Provincial Savannahian.
K’s comment is par for the course - he politicizes everything. No wonder, he belongs to the Party of Intrinsic Evil where corrupt minds belong!!
Joseph - At Pentecost, the people - disciples - who spoke a COMMON language were empowered by the Holy Spirit to break into MANY languages. They did not begin singing O Salutaris or Tantum Ergo and suddenly find a sense of unity.
When Latin was the norm for mass, Catholics did not pray in a common language. They prayed in the language of the educated clergy.
I think we all see how condescending this comment is towards the unclean, ignorant and incapable of comprehending laity. Clericalism is alive and well in Provincial Savannah! Wow! Just WOW!
My father was a choir master in a village church, where many people could not even read English. But they knew what the hymns meant., what they were doing and they understood the mass , that it was the great sacrifice. My father hadn’t gone to Unversity and wasn’t the so called educated.
I was born in 1962. My grandmother thought me what the mass was about etc., the prayers etc. I was brought up in the new mass though. But in Asia (not Philippines) even the new mass is offered in a very reverent manner. They did not break the alter rails etc. generally because of the influence of majority other major religions, they knew what it was to worship god, what is sacred etc. people are more simple. I have been to the TLM in London, Oxford UK, New York, Toronto, Vancouver and Singapore. These are the most diverse masses that I have ever been to. Participants are more aware of what is going on, more involved in the mass in mind, and stay back to offer thanksgiving after the mass. There are, Koreans, Japanese,, Sinhalese, Tamils, Italians, Somalians, South Americans. Goans, Lebanese, Kampucheans, etc., etc, all at the same mass worshipping go together with a same sense of belonging.
Does Cardinal Roch say I go to mass that is in my vernacular? Then where do I go to when I am not in my native country. In an English speaking country I could go to an English mass although that’s not my native language. But then what do I do in a non English speaking country.
Fr ALLAN McDonald - With the poor education you received, one that you have told us about here on your blog several times, your response is not surprising.
"Literacy in German-speaking lands during the 1500s was low overall—estimated at roughly 5% to 10%"
"Literacy in 17th-century Sicily was extremely low, limited mostly to elite men, clergy, and specialized professionals, while the general population remained overwhelmingly illiterate."
"Literacy in 17th-century France was low, highly unequal, and slowly progressing, with overall national rates remaining under 30%."
"During the 1600s, literacy in the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth was highest among the nobility and townspeople, while remaining very low among the rural peasantry."
So, yes, the people were largely illiterate. If they were literate, it wasn't in Latin, unless they were among the elite, the nobility, or the clergy.
Facts are not condescending.
Joseph Ros,
You’ll get used to the All Highest K: arrogant, contumacious, ignorant, intolerant of others viewpoints, disrespectful of our Church’s Latin liturgical tradition, and proud of it! He is basically engaged in a one way conversation with the person he loves best: The All Highest K!
Yes, I have heard enough of the Father K., types. I went to TLM this morning, where the priest, deacon, sub deacon were all in the late 30s or early 40. The MC was around 30. All the servers in the teens or 20s and from Korea, Japan, North America, Goa, UK (about 10 of them), church was packed, and people standing at the back. More than 50% was youth. Before mass and until the Kyrie there were two lineups on both sides of the church of about 15 - 20 long for confession. There were people from many countries languages. Many of the youth were not brought up Catholic. I haven’t seen this in any of the Novus Ordo masses.
Like MT, the All Highest K can’t handle that the failed post Vatican II settlement is dying
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