He didn’t clarify to what he was referring. But he did say early on that Pope Francis was in heaven. It’s one thing for a bishop or a priest or a lay person to say so and so is in heaven in the pejorative way, it is quite another thing for the pope, any pope, to say it apart from a formal beatification or canonization liturgy. That’s a learning curve for Pope Leo formed under the soft theology, bleeding heart, post Vatican II Church where Requiem Masses are now celebrations of life and an informal canonization or beatification.
Pope Leo, be very circumspect with your language.
So too, in the interview about LGBTQ+++ ideologies, Pope Leo, laudably so, said that the sexual moral teachings of the Church will not change nor the nature of licit marriage between one man and one woman for the begetting of children and forming of Christian families. (I’ve paraphrased that).
But then he said, and without thinking, “I don’t think.”
Holy Father, you are the Supreme Pontiff! Pope Francis no longer is. When he was pope, and we were trying to decipher what he was saying on this, that and the other, often commentators who were orthodox would say, “He’s not going to change doctrine, I DON’T THINK!” Which meant, well, there’s a possibility it might, under Pope Francis!” One just wasn’t sure!
Pope Leo, be clear and definitive!
Also, let’s recover the masculinity of the Magisterium of Holy Mother Church. Sometimes you have to be as blunt as Charlie Kirk was in getting across what is definitive in the Church’s teaching and what God expects of His people. A man must be a father or a spiritual father or a Holy Father. A man must be manly and definitive. Let biological women bring the nuances.
32 comments:
That may be a verbal habit to diffuse conflict. He should feel safe acfirming Church teaching that even Pope Francis confirmed.
I'm less worried about "I think/don't think" and more concerned about the repeated mentions of changing doctrine.
Nick
With Father McDonald's permission:
-- Pope tells Crux: Abuse victims deserve compassion and justice, but beware false allegations
https://cruxnow.com/interviews/2025/09/pope-tells-crux-abuse-victims-deserve-compassion-and-justice-but-beware-false-allegations
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-- Pope Leo speaks to Crux’s Elise Ann Allen about LGBTQ+ issues and the liturgy
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2025/09/pope-leo-speaks-to-cruxs-elise-ann-allen-about-lgbtq-issues-and-the-liturgy
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-- Pope Leo speaks to Crux’s Elise Ann Allen about polarization in the world
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2025/09/pope-leo-speaks-to-cruxs-elise-ann-allen-about-polarization-in-the-world
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-- Pope Leo speaks to Crux’s Elise Ann Allen about Gaza, China, and the U.S.
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2025/09/pope-leo-speaks-to-cruxs-elise-ann-allen-about-gaza-china-and-the-u-s
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-- Pope Leo tells Crux’s Elise Ann Allen about the Curia and Vatican finances
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2025/09/pope-leo-tells-cruxs-elise-ann-allen-about-the-curia-and-vatican-finances
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-- Pope Leo XVI speaks to Crux’s Elise Ann Allen on relations with other churches
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2025/09/pope-leo-xvi-speaks-to-cruxs-elise-ann-allen-on-relations-with-other-churches
Pax.
Mark Thomas
What is considered masculine differs greatly across different cultures, subcultures, and historical eras.
Following an audience he had with His Holiness, Cardinal Fernández insisted several weeks ago that Pope Leo XIV was on board with Fiducia Supplicans.
However, certain folks had rendered as untrustworthy the Cardinal's declaration in question.
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Following a recent audience he had with Pope Leo XIV, the veracity of Father James Martin's report on said audience had been deemed suspect, at least by certain folks.
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Following today's reports in regard to Crux Senior Correspondent Elise Ann Allen's interviews with Pope Leo XIV: There is not any doubt that Cardinal Fernández had reported accurately that Pope Leo XIV supported Fiducia Supplicans.
Via his interviews with Crux/Elsie Ann Allen, Pope Leo XIV has made clear that Pope Francis (requiescat in pace) had issued an orthodox document in Fiducia Supplicans — a document that Pope Leo XIV has made his own.
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Pope Leo XIV's July 2025 A.D. interviews with Crux/Elsie Ann Allen, have confirmed Father James Martin's recent declaration that His Holiness is on board with Pope Francis' approach/outreach to so-called LGBTQ Catholics.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
"A man must be manly and definitive. Let biological women bring the nuances."
Sorry, Father, disagree here. The great theologians are champions of nuance, from Aquinas to Benedict XVI. Nuance isn't effeminate, or necessarily even feminine.
I'm not saying you, Father, are like this, but I think a lot of men who are trad or trad-adjacent have this idea, and it doesn't lead to being definitive; it leads to sounding ignorant or simply being a jerk. It's one way in which trads are their own worst enemies, especially in interaction with the hierarchy of the Church and non-trads.
Nick
I think that Pope Leo has a speech tick where he unwittingly uses “I Think
“ to preface statements. It’s like, “you know” said a billion times, or, “um.” But he’s pope and can’t afford making his statements sound like one opinion out of many.
The same is true when he says “for now”. That is a speech tick too. It makes him sound wishy washy although I pray he’s not.
"Sometimes you have to be as blunt as Charlie Kirk was in getting across what is definitive in the Church’s teaching and what God expects of His people."
Charlie Kirk was a Christian Nationalist, not a promulgator of the teachings of thew Catholic Church.
From the Presbyterian Outlook: "Kirk was a controversial political figure who espoused White Christian nationalist ideologies (among other extremist views on race, gender, sexuality, capital punishment, and vaccines)."
From the ADL (Anti-Defamation League): "Kirk also promotes Christian nationalism: the idea that Christians should dominate the government and other areas of life in the US."
From the Concord Monitor: "Kirk, as many Trump loyalists, imagined a country based on Christian Nationalism which is clearly antithetical to democracy. It’s fueled largely by white supremacy, supports the dominance of men over women, shuns LGBTQIA+ persons, and above all, believes a narrow interpretation of Christian scripture should rule Congress, state governments and the court system."
From FP (Foreign Policy Magazine): "Why Charlie Kirk’s White Nationalism Resonated With Some Nonwhites Abroad - He had followers in countries where majority groups feel insecure."
Christian Nationalism is most definitely NOT the Church's teaching.
From Bishop Michael Burbidge or Arlington, Virginia: ‘Christian nationalism’ is opposed to Catholic teaching"
Link: https://catholicreview.org/burbidge-christian-nationalism-is-opposed-to-catholic-teaching/
From: LifeSiteNews:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-leo-vows-to-continue-franciss-prophetic-vision-for-the-church/
-- Pope Leo vows to ‘continue’ Francis’s ‘prophetic vision’ for the Church
"In his first major interview, Pope Leo XIV stressed his intention to build directly on Francis’s legacy."
(LifeSiteNews) — In his first extended interview since his election, Pope Leo XIV repeatedly positioned himself as the inheritor of Francis’s program, stressing continuity on synodality, women’s roles, ecumenism, curial reform, and liturgical disputes.
"Speaking to Crux correspondent Elise Ann Allen for a forthcoming biography, Leo said his years in Peru deepened his connection to Francis’s outlook."
"I believe [the time in Peru] was significant in both my connection with Pope Francis, my understanding of some of the vision that Pope Francis had for the Church, and how we can continue to carry that on in terms of a true prophetic vision for the Church today and tomorrow."
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LifeSiteNews' analysis of Pope Leo XIV's interview in question is in line with our Holy Father's responses to Holiness
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Elsie Ann Allen.
For once, LifeSiteNews has rendered an accurate report.
Via the interview in question, Pope Leo XIV has shattered the following overall narrative that Pope Francis' (requiescat in pace) detractors have longed advanced:
That Pope Francis had taught in muddled fashion...unleashed chaos and destruction upon the Church.
Conversely, Pope Leo XIV has portrayed Pope Francis as an orthodox, prophetic Roman Pontiff, whose teachings will long impact Holy Mother Church in uplifting fashion.
From the dawn of his Pontificate to date, Pope Leo XIV has promoted Pope Francis' teachings repeatedly...without explanation...without correction.
That alone has shattered the claim that Pope Francis had taught, governed, and sanctified us in confused, chaotic fashion.
God blessed us with a holy, humble, tremendous Roman Pontiff in Pope Francis. In turn, God has granted unto us in Pope Leo XIV a holy, humble, tremendous Roman Pontiff.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
In regard to Pope Leo XIV's interview with Elsie Ann Allen: As noted via one report after another of said interview, Pope Leo XIV is determined to promote Pope Francis (requiescat in pace) / Pope Francis' Pontificate to the hilt.
In regard to Pope Francis the Pope/the man: It is undeniable that Pope Leo XIV, and Pope Francis' detractors, are in monumental disagreement with each other.
Remember the ‘Demos’ Memorandum that Pope Francis' detractors had been keen to promote? It is clear that Pope Leo XIV has z-e-r-o use for the ‘Demos’ Memorandum.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
And let's not forget how the "blunt" Charlie Kirk spoke of Simone Biles in 2021: Item from Newsweek:
"Charlie Kirk has launched a stinging attack on American gymnast Simone Biles after she withdrew from the women's team final at the Tokyo Olympics.
The conservative activist branded the four-time Olympic gold medalist a "sociopath" and a "shame to the country" after she withdrew from the event, citing mental health issues. "This Olympic Games, I wanted it to be for myself. I came in and I felt like I was still doing it for other people," a tearful Biles told reporters. "That just hurts my heart that doing what I love has been kind of taken away from me to please other people." Biles has received widespread support, but Kirk, a Newsweek columnist, was unmoved by her comments. "We are raising a generation of weak people like Simone Biles," he told listeners to his podcast The Charlie Kirk Show. "If she's got all these mental health problems: don't show up."
Kirk dropped out of Harper College near Chicago after one semester.
-- 6 highlights from Pope Leo’s interview on Trump, LGBTQ+ welcome and women in the church
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/6-highlights-from-pope-leos-interview-on-trump-lgbtq-welcome-and-women-in-the-church
Excerpts:
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Welcoming the LGBTQ+ community
-- "Leo embraced Pope Francis’ message for LGBTQ+ Catholics that “todos, todos, todos” are welcome in the Catholic Church but said that he found “it highly unlikely” the church’s core doctrine about sexuality would change anytime soon."
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-- Ties with China
"Leo said he didn’t foresee any short-term changes in the Vatican’s controversial 2018 agreement with Beijing over bishop nominations."
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-- Sex abuse scandals
"Leo said the sex abuse crisis is “a real crisis” that has not yet been solved, and that the church still hasn’t found a way to help victims heal. But he also said the rights of priests must be respected."
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-- Trump and U.S. politics
"Leo...recalled a letter Francis sent to U.S. bishops earlier this year rebuking the Trump administration’s plans for mass deportations of migrants. The letter took direct aim at Vice President JD Vance’s defense of the deportation program on theological grounds.
"Leo praised Francis’ initiative and said U.S. bishops showed “courage” in confronting the administration, expressing hopes they would continue to take the lead on such issues.
"Leo made clear he is not a Trump supporter, adding that he and his brother Luis Prevost, a self-described “MAGA-type,” who has met the U.S. president are in “different places.”
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-- Women’s voices
"Leo vowed to continue appointing women to leadership positions in the church, but tamped down any hopes of ordaining women as deacons or as priests."
"I at the moment don’t have an intention of changing the teaching of the church on the topic,” he said. “I am certainly willing to continue to listen to people.”
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-- Vatican finances
"Leo inherited a longstanding financial crunch at the Vatican...The crisis hit hardest during the pandemic when the Holy See’s main source of revenue, the Vatican Museums, closed down.
"But things are improving and “it is not the crisis that people have been led to believe,” Leo said. “I’m not saying we can relax,” he said. “I don’t think the crisis is over...but I’m not losing sleep over it, and I think that it’s important that we communicate a different message.”
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Leo’s interview is interesting but he doesn’t really give much away except to acknowledge some issues and that he’s looking into them.
He certainly sits on the fence regarding the TLM whilst acknowledging problematic issues highlighted by Francis says there’s always the new rite in Latin. I suspect there will be a cautious loosening of restrictions, perhaps incrementally.
Thank you MT for emphasizing what I have said all along. Pope Leo will be a refining pope in terms of the controversial aspects of Pope Francis papacy. I’ve said time and time again that unlike Pope Francis, Pope Leo will not cancel his predecessor as that is a polarizing aspect of Pope Francis’ papacy.
Pope Leo said he does not want to continue the polarizing aspects of Pope Francis’ papacy. He does not want polarization. He’s said that over and and over again. Pope Francis was a lightening rod for polarization. Pope Leo wants to do that, not by canceling Pope Francis like Francis canceled Benedict but refining things.
In the regard, John Allen, the husband of Elise and who was present at the interviews hits the nail on the head:
“So, in miniature we have a Pope Leo three-step when it comes to his predecessor: Loyalty to the substance, attention to its deeper ecclesiastical roots to avoid undue personalization, and a willingness to be flexible about ways and means.
It’s the sort of balanced and careful approach one might expect from a pope who understands that he took over from a visionary, but also a lightning rod – and that for Francis’ imprint to endure, it may need to be pruned as well as pressed.”
This interview was in July I think. I think he will find a way to allow the TLM without insulting his predecessor as Francis did Benedict. A big step, allowed after the interview, is to allow Cardinal Burke to celebrate the TLM as a solemn sung Mass at the altar of the chair in October for the SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM Pilgrimage. Not even the LGBTQ+++ pilgrimage was allowed a Mass at St.Peter’s, they had to go to the Jesuit Church of Gesu. And I don’t think Pope Leo met with them as a group even as they were at the Saturday outdoor audience the day of their visit and Mass at Gesu.
Doctrine can’t change but it can develop, sometimes in unexpected directions.
I’m not sure all church teaching on sexuality falls under the doctrine category. Certainly there are some fundamentals like Christian marriage between a man and a woman is a sacrament but there have been subtle but significant shifts in many areas over the years. For example, Alphonsus thought therapeutic abortion to save the mother’s life was permissible -or- the widening of the sexual act to not only be aimed towards procreation. As Benedict taught there can be continuities and discontinuities at different levels. Francis didn’t change any of the fundamentals but he did soften the pastoral direction towards modern realities.
Yes, the doctrines concerning Mary’s conception and her dormitory have developed in the West but not so much in the East.Eastern Orthodoxy does not agree with the development of doctrine codified in a papal alone infallible statement about her Immaculate Conception and they agree with the pope alone papal infallible statement concerning the Assumption. Synodality is a theological position, in no way a doctrine, but it could develop into that. FS is not a development of doctrine concerning blessings because it wasn’t even needed. Of course priests offer blessings to all kinds of people, places and objects. The marital act, in a licit marriage, certainly developed in the sense it is both procreative and unitive. You can’t have development of morality or doctrines that negates natural law. I applaud Pope Leo for naming St. John Henry Newman to the level of doctor of the Church precisely because of his sober take on development of doctrine. And I applaud Pope Leo on his reiteration of Natural Law as important for the sexual and social teachings of the Church. Pope Leo, while respecting Pope Francis, is no Pope Francis and thank God for that!
Room for manoeuvre in sexual teaching?
Another class of possible rationales for changing the Church’s sexual teaching is based upon the idea that, while moral facts cannot change, empirical facts can and do, and the practical state of the modern world is such that the way one ought to apply historical Christian sexual theology to it has changed. At their worst, these rationales are essentially restatements of “get with the times,” but at their best, they are significantly more admissible.
Despite these objections, this rationale is stronger than the ones discussed previously because Catholics may licitly tolerate a lesser evil to avoid a greater one, provided they are not actively complicit in it. If the Church framed a possible broad rapprochement with the sexual revolution as tolerating, as opposed to ratifying, sexual practices that it teaches to be immoral so as to avoid serious consequences for people’s other moral responsibilities or rights, then this might be an admissible or even a prudent way forward. Indeed, something of the like was introduced into the discussion surrounding Amoris and has come up again regarding Fiducia; nobody involved in implementing Pope Francis’s ideas necessarily holds the “liberal” positions on the substantive moral issues involved, but they do believe that there are some second marriages, blended families, and gay couples in which the boat is best left un-rocked.
Finally, the strongest and most biblically and theologically grounded rationale for the Catholic Church coming to terms with some aspects of the sexual revolution is founded upon Matthew 19:8, a verse in the very passage in which Jesus institutes the traditional teaching that marriage is to be monogamous and lifelong. In this verse Jesus says “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way” (NRSV). Thus there is an acknowledgment in the Bible itself, from the words of Christ Himself, that, under some circumstances, concessions to human sinfulness can be made from objective moral law, as long as they are acknowledged to be concessions and as long as people are eventually exhorted to conversion. This is in fact the rationale that Eastern Orthodoxy cites for allowing remarriage and in some cases contraception for pastoral reasons, as part of what the Catholic Church calls the “internal forum” of a priest’s care for individual souls, as opposed to the “external forum” of the teachings of the Gospels as proclaimed to the world.
https://wherepeteris.com/theology-of-sexuality-after-amoris-and-fiducia-some-tentative-notes/
FS is not a development of doctrine concerning blessings because it wasn’t even needed
FS doesn’t seek to change or develop doctrine. See my previous comment regarding the greater acceptance of homosexuals in committed relationships as a practical reality, if not Christian ideal. Arguably this was needed (by lgbt catholics and the allies, if not you personally)!
I like quoting the saintly Cardinal Hume who “accepted the validity of love between gay people" while still condemning homosexual acts in accordance with Catholic teaching.
“Love between two persons, whether of the same sex or of a different sex, is to be treasured and respected… When two persons love, they experience in a limited manner in this world what will be their unending delight when one with God in the next… To love another, whether of the same sex or of a different sex, is to have entered the area of the richest human experience…” (Cardinal Basil Hume, Note on the Teaching of the Catholic Church Concerning Homosexual People, 1995).
We can recognise and bless the good within homosexual relationships without condoning any sexual acts. That opens up the possibility of blessing gay unions.
Leo named Newman a doctor of the church but undoubtedly this was on the cards already under Francis.
Fr. AJM,
Indeed, the permission to Cardinal Burke from Pope Leo is a way of communicating much while really saying very little.
Nick
Doctrine can’t change but it can develop, sometimes in unexpected directions.
I don't think this comports with any articulated Catholic definition of doctrinal development.
Nick
Oh, that rag again.
Nick
What is a same-sex union? If it is entirely non-sexual, it's not a union at all; we're talking about nothing more than a close friendship. If it is sexual, then what are we blessing? Shall two committed marital-affair partners then ask that the non-sexual aspects of their relationship be blessed, as well?
Nick
In addition, from Mike Lewis himself, FS supposedly undid the mess of the prior directive that said people in same-sex relationships had to be committed to chastity. Now, they don't have to be. So that puts the kibosh on your theory of blessing "gay unions."
Nick
Father McDonald, please cite where Pope Leo XIV had insisted that Pope Francis (requiescat in pace) inflicted polarization upon the Church. I have not found any such claim by Pope Leo XI
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Pope Leo XIV portrayed Pope Francis as somebody who had worked to diffuse polarization within the Church. In that regard, Pope Leo XIV noted that he is in line with Pope Francis.
Example: Pope Leo XIV declared:
"...any issue dealing with the LGBTQ questions is highly polarizing within the Church. For now, because of what I’ve already tried to demonstrate and live out in terms of my understanding of being pope at this time in history, I’m trying not to continue to polarize or promote polarization in the church."
"What I’m trying to say is what Francis said very clearly when he would say, ‘todos, todos, todos’. Everyone’s invited in, but I don’t invite a person in because they are or are not of any specific identity. I invite a person in because they are a son or daughter of God."
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As the above noted: Pope Francis, in regard to such "polarizing" issues as related to the LGBTQ community, had made himself clear. The problem was that certain folks had added to, or subtracted from, Pope Francis' clear teachings.
In turn, said folks, not Pope Francis, had contributed to the issue of polarization within the Church.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Leo said he is “trying not to continue to polarize or promote polarization in the church.”
That doesn’t mean that Francis created polarisation in the church, just recognises that it exists.
What is a same-sex union? If it is entirely non-sexual, it's not a union at all; we're talking about nothing more than a close friendship. If it is sexual, then what are we blessing?
I think the difference is that marriage in law must be consummated, whereas civil unions are simply a recognition of legal rights in a partnership and are not dependent upon any sexual aspects.
Shall two committed marital-affair partners then ask that the non-sexual aspects of their relationship be blessed, as well?
Why would they do that?
If they’re having an affair then they obviously not committed by definition.
Father McDonald said..."Leo said he is “trying not to continue to polarize or promote polarization in the church.”
Father, thank you for your reply.
Father, you are correct. His Holiness said that he is not "trying not to continue to polarize or promote polarization in the church."
However, he did not pin upon Pope Francis (requiescat in pace) the existence of polarization within the Church.
Again, Pope Leo XIV noted that "...any issue dealing with the LGBTQ questions is highly polarizing within the Church. I’m trying not to continue to polarize or promote polarization in the church."
"What I’m trying to say is what Francis said very clearly when he would say, ‘todos, todos, todos’.
"Everyone’s invited in, but I don’t invite a person in because they are or are not of any specific identity. I invite a person in because they are a son or daughter of God."
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Pope Leo XIV insisted that he, in line with Pope Francis, is determined not to "promote polarization in the church."
"I’m trying to say is ******* what Francis said very clearly******* when he would say, ‘todos, todos, todos’."
The polarization in question resulted from the misrepresentation of that which "Francis said very clearly."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
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