From Rorate Caeli:
Cardinal Goh: Leo XIV will put clarity back into Doctrine -- and enough with persecution of those who prefer the Traditional Mass
From an interview granted by Cardinal Goh, Archbishop of Singapore, to Bussola Quotidiana:
Your Eminence, do you think you cardinals elected the right man?
Money byte:
Speaking of which, you will know that these have not been easy years for the faithful who love the so-called Tridentine Mass. What will become of them in the new pontificate?
I personally believe that there is no reason to stop those people who prefer the Tridentine Mass. They are not doing anything wrong or sinful. Of course the unity of the Church should be preserved, but on the other hand we even have different rites like the Syro-Malabar rites. We can very well accept different ways of celebrating the Eucharist, and so I think we should not stifle those who prefer the Tridentine rite. At the end of the day, it is not the rite or the form in which one celebrates that matters, but whether one encounters God in depth.
What is your experience with communities that love the ancient liturgy in your diocese?
I personally do not celebrate the Tridentine Mass, but I am not against those who do. In my country we have a small group of about 300 people and they are mostly young people, often professionals. Sometimes I ask them, “Why do you prefer this celebration?” They answer me that they feel it is more reflective, contemplative, and they find it brings them closer to God. Why should I stop them? Of course, if they deny the teachings of the Second Vatican Council that is another story and then they should be disciplined. But they don't, so I think we should not discriminate against these people. After all, it was the Mass celebrated for hundreds and hundreds of years, right?
My astute comments:
I have this feeling that the TLM and the communities who love it, and because of it, love the Lord, was discussed at the pre-conclave meetings and maybe during the Conclave. Several cardinals have thus far said they think Pope Leo may well relax the cruel restrictions of Pope Francis and Cardinal Roche.
The problem with bishops and those in the Curia who don’t get it, is that we as Catholics are both/and not either/or. And when it comes to the Liturgical tradition of the Church that has an almost 2000 year tradition or organic development until Pope Paul VI’s liturgy committee thought they should foist on the entire Church and so-called “new and improved” liturgy which they said Vatican II wanted, then that’s a problem
Today, the Modern Mass has a 60 year tradition. The TLM has at least a 1,600 year tradition on par with many of the Eastern Rites and Orthodox Churches’ Divine Liturgy.
And now we have bishops in the country, the latest in Louisville, KY, who want to ban people from kneeling to receive Holy Communion. These kinds of bishops exacerbate problems rather than solve them.
There is no reason why Catholics can’t kneel to receive Holy Communion and to have the Modern Mass celebrated ad orientem especially as these traditions have over 1,500 years of tradition while standing for Holy Communion and facing the congregation for Mass only have a 60 year tradition.
22 comments:
There is quite a bit which I hope to see Pope Leo address, everything from popesplain/tweek the prior papacy words and acts into continuity and zero ambiguity with all prior Church understandings and doctrines, put the Vatican finances on a sure path of recovery, disavow PRC controlled churches and teachings as Catholic, and shock everyone by allowing only the pre-1955 Missal Romanum where local desire exists, and conforming the exercise of the mass of Paul VI to the express teachings of Vatican II....
but primary and number one on the hope list would be Pope Leo hammering home the forgotten spiritual teachings and riches within the Church so that more people truly find God instead of only hoping in the same manner as which I hope for this papacy, and of which I have no ever rising expectations/anticipations/building excitements, but merely wait to see how the real papacy unfolds rather than any imagined narrative I create/project in my mind.
Given Church finances and declining Western membership, and given the West the Church's cash cow, I think Leo and the Vatican will seek to bring back the disaffected who have found the modern Church lame and empty of real meaning or even good worship, and while seeking to offend no one....they will, if they are smart.
Only an evil man would restrict the TLM
A pope and most bishops have restricted the TLM. Therefore, popes and bishops are evil.
Nah, I prefer to think merely stupid and lazy, plus whatever other sinful inclinations and practices, a snapshot of modern corporate managers, rather than spiritual leaders, the prime function of popes and bishops.
"And now we have bishops in the country, the latest in Louisville, KY, who want to ban people from kneeling to receive Holy Communion. These kinds of bishops exacerbate problems rather than solve them."
Not my fight, but, this is so overly tiresome. The faithful that remain just suffer under these prelates. Retirement cannot come soon enough.
Hopefully, our pope does relax the restrictions on the TLM. It was cruel to marginalize further truly committed faithful forcing upon them an expression that, if we're being totally honest, hasn't been the most successful.
To me, those who are so against the TLM are ideologues, perhaps not true believers in the true presence, are too worldly to supplicate themselves as that liturgy requires and are overall scared s#!_less of it and the richness of its optics. How anyone can hate their inheritance that much is beyond my comprehension.
Byz - No one is scared s#!_less of the "T"LM. The inheritance is not in the peripherals - language, decor, shiny damask, etc. The inheritance in the power of the Sacrifice. All else is dross.
Oh my! When did you become a Puritan or a Calvinist??????
Sure they are. Why it was only several weeks ago that I shared that post regarding a pastor limiting the celebration of the TLM for fear, by his own admission, that it would be more "popular" than the NO.
I did not mean language, decor, etc., it's from the psalms.
I would argue that a TLM in a church build in the last 500+ years vs a NO in a contemporary church do look like 2 different religions. Yes.....some are indeed scared.
ByzRus,
You need to keep in mind that the "priest" you are dealing with has a broken moral compass and is hopeless stuck in the 1970s.
Should he wade into the TLM Movement: Here is just a bit of the nonsense that Pope Leo XIV will encounter:
From: LifeSiteNews:
-- Pope Leo XIV confirms priest who supports ‘women’s ordination’ as new bishop of St. Gallen, Switzerland.
"Pope Leo XIV confirmed the election of heretical Fr. Beat Grögli as bishop St. Gallen. Grögli said that ‘the women's priesthood will come,’ among other heterodox statements."
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From: Chris Jackson, who has served as a columnist for The Remnant:
-- Leo’s Feminized Vatican: Where Nuns Rule Priests
"Leo XIV completes the revolution Francis began, and Rome no longer hides its inversion of sacred hierarchy."
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Dr. Maike Hickson, journalist for LifeSiteNews:
-- "Pope Leo XIV’s early papacy has confirmed what faithful Catholics feared: the soft traditionalism of his vestments is a veil for the continuation and now the consolidation of the revolution begun at Vatican II."
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Rorate Caeli:
-- Traditionis Custodes Persecution continues under Leo XIV - Traditional Masses Removed from Parish Churches in the Diocese of Charlotte, North Carolina
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Matt Gaspers:
"Sadly, Pope Leo XIV has wasted no time putting his “complete commitment” to Vatican II into action...he met with representatives of various other religions and spoke highly of his predecessors’ interreligious efforts, particularly those of his immediate predecessor:"
"In his remarks this week, Pope Leo quoted approvingly from the Abu Dhabi declaration (aka Document on Human Fraternity) and made no correction of its heretical claim that “[t]he pluralism and the diversity of religions … are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings."
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Pax.
Mark Thomas
Until you can name the bishops promoting this stuff, so whst. I am more concerned about Germany’s forthcoming schism with bishops galore leading the way..
Mark Thomas:
How is this nonsense? It's fact with a directive from the Bishop.
Rorate Caeli:
-- Traditionis Custodes Persecution continues under Leo XIV - Traditional Masses Removed from Parish Churches in the Diocese of Charlotte, North Carolina
Fr. AJM, please see https://charlottediocese.org/communications/completing-the-implementation-of-traditionis-custodes-in-the-diocese-of-charlotte/
Father McDonald, I named a Bishop. He is Bishop-Elect Grögli, of St. Gallen, Switzerland. He is a supposed "heretic" who has received Pope Leo XIV's approval.
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In line with Holy Mother Church: I am concerned with the situation in Germany. I am concerned in regard to the situation within the TLM Movement. One is able to express concern in regard to each situation in question.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
ByzRus, it is nonsense in that the Bishop of Charlotte had his good name trampled. That is, he is guilty supposedly of having trampled ("persecuted") his spiritual children.
It is nonsense in that concern in regard to his decision in question should have been expressed in charitable fashion.
It is nonsense in that New Catholic (Rorate Caeli) supplemented their claim in question as they had published the following the following from DC Rosary Rally for the Latin Mass:
"What this bishop did to the thriving TLM community in Charlotte is sick and demonic. Traditionis Custodes is evil. The rescript is evil. This decree from the Bishop of Charlotte is evil."
It is nonsense in that Rorate Caeli claimed that the supposed "persecution" of Catholics has continued under Pope Leo XIV.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT Suit,
You are the epitome of Nonsense. You still haven’t manned up to explain how Pope Francis failed to discipline the clerics engaged in the cocaine sex fueled gay orgy at the Vatican. Very Satanic of you!
The latest from Rorate Caeli: via X
"Hi, Trads of Charlotte, I'm your bishop: Why don't you drop dead?"
Below that disgraceful remark is a photograph of Bishop Martin.
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We have another example of the type of vicious, vile, verbal attacks that, unfortunately, have long flowed from the TLM Movement. Said movement has exhibited great difficulty throughout the years of having expressed its its concerns in rational, charitable.
New Catholic (Rorate Caeli), for example, a prominent person within the TLM Movement, has demonstrated for years that he will trample the good names of Popes, Cardinals, bishops...
Within the TLM Movement, Rorate Caeli has, in that regard, been far from alone.
From the moment of his election as our Pontiff, Pope Leo XIV has been defamed repeatedly by more than a few folks within the TLM Movement.
Defamation...the trampling of one's good name...the rebellion against the Magisterium...
Pope Leo XIV will require a miracle(s) should he hope to instill widespread peace, as well as obedience to Church Authority, within the TLM Movement.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT Suit,
Still can’t man up. How Satanic of you!
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
"But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father..."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Another Non Sequitur from MT Suit who still cannot find evidence that Francis disciplined the clerics at the Vatican who engaged in a cocaine fueled gay sex orgy.
I try thought this video by Michael Matt was very well done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1njqlBQpp64
Agree with TJM. Anyone who thinks within weeks of election there would be a significant pivot is not existing in reality. Leo was left with a significant docket, he cannot pursue scorched earth else the cycle of cancelation perpetuates itself and continuity and unity must remain paramount. That said, of all the choices, Cardinal Sarah's appointment signals, at least to me, that the conservative viewpoint will have its place at the table.
Indeed!
Though I haven't suffered like the Traditionalists, thematically, this greatly resonated, particularly if I was granted 5 minutes with our pope.
My sense, he knows.
Thanks for sharing.
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