At the risk of being uncharitable, I think Archbishop Viganò has a loose screw or two in his head. Yet, that doesn’t mean that every single word he utters, which are way too many, don’t have some truth in the words.
And as Catholics, we are people of faith who believe God directs the Church and corrects the Church when the Church veers away from the truth, becomes too political by wedding Church and state together into one.
It is heterodox to renounce an ecumenical council and usually leads those who do so in schism. Schism is anathema for Catholics although I am sure Vatican II Catholics would use a less potent word like pluralism or diversity or diversity in a kind of unity or unity in a kind of diversity or pluralism. At any rate, this is food for thought. When Archbishop Viganò invents a time machine and goes back in time to change history, it will be interesting to see what the Church will be like today, whenever that today is.
Archbishop Viganò: Without Vatican II, Destruction Wrought by Revolutions of the 1960s Would Not Have Happened
Without the Second Vatican Council, the student revolution of 1968 that radically changed life in the Western world would never have happened, nor would a “self-styled” Catholic such as Joe Biden be a leading presidential contender, Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano has argued.
In a new lengthy interview with the Vaticanist Marco Tosatti, the former nuncio to the United States said he believes there is a “close connection between the rebellion of the ultra-progressive clergy — with the Jesuits in the lead — and the education of generations of Catholics, who were formed according to the modernist ideology.”
These, he said, were factors “flowing into the Council, which served as a premise not only for ’68 revolution in the political sphere, but also for the doctrinal and moral revolution in the ecclesial sphere.
“Without Vatican II,” he argued, “we would not have had the student revolution that radically changed life in the Western world, the vision of the family, the role of women, and the very concept of authority.”
18 comments:
God bless and Our Lady protect Archbishop Vigano. His words are bold truth. Our Lady of Fatima’s warnings are unfolding before our eyes. The clergy with the loose screws are the ones mourning the death of RBG and heralding her work of slaughtering the innocents and marrying homosexuals as “justice.”
With few exceptions, the hierarchy of the US Catholic Church is in a crisis of identity. Most appear to be spiritual descendants of Judas Iscariot although some are just undoubtedly ignorant or cowards or both.
Vigano, like Altman, is a loon.
Beset by messiah complexes, both of them, it is amazing that they and the tiny segment of the Catholic world that listens to them let alone agrees with them are the only ones who can see what is REALLY going on.
Throw in the warnings of Fatima which have no standing in the hierarchy of the Church's doctrine and dogma, and you get a bunch of overly-pietistical, dangerously devout folks who embarrass themselves and who make Catholicism look silly and weak.
John F Kennedy was elected President in 1960, before Vatican II. The whole family were gruesome and paraded their Catholicism despite the fact that both JFK, his brother RFK and their even more monstrous father were serial adulterers. Nowadays their exploitation of women would have guaranteed them a jail sentence.
The satirist PJ O'Rourke remarked that both brothers were shot but in romantic circumstances rather (as would have been preferred) after due process of law.
Vatican II did not inaugurate clerical hypocrisy, although it might have exacerbated it.
I had been thinking of a similar point of view, but Absp Vigano actually studied it and said it. One often hears from the "other side" that society was changing which is the main cause of the transformation of the faithful away from the Church and God after the Council. But it is not a satisfactory explanation when one looks at the big picture. In Europe, Catholics were indeed straying away before the Council, but from a Church Who had a generation of thinkers like deChardin, Kung, the New Theology, and so forth within Her inner workings and spreading their radical Modernist ideas everywhere within; it is no wonder that Catholics were becoming disenchanted. Vatican II was a Modernist Council by which I mean it accepted some basic principles of the Enlightenment such the ideas from the American Constitution on religious liberty (through the influence of John Courtney Murray). One just thinks about that key phrase in SC I keep re-iterating, "active participation of the faithful above all else." This active participation was founded on comprehension, the rationality of Man that the Enlightenment placed before Faith. Man, in other words, comes first, the very foundation of the Novus Ordo. The Council generally justified the thinking of the rebellious society that was developing....not even a serious criticism of Marxism which eventually pervaded the rebellions. Of course, the baby-boomer generation quickly transformed this rebellion into a post-Modernism that made the Council irrelevant to that generation and to those that followed.
Even as a youngster I had thought the Church needed to be like a rock, not a marshmallow. In the 1960’s everything was changing. The Church authorities, priests and nuns, thought the Church should change with the times. The Church, the people, needed the rock solid stability. Vatican 2 gave the consecrated the flimsiest foundation they so desired. The nuns in particular were ecstatic over the modernization, even a toddler could see how much they wanted change.
"Beset by messiah complexes, both of them, it is amazing that they and the tiny segment of the Catholic world that listens to them let alone agrees with them are the only ones who can see what is REALLY going on.
"Throw in the warnings of Fatima which have no standing in the hierarchy of the Church's doctrine and dogma, and you get a bunch of overly-pietistical, dangerously devout folks who embarrass themselves and who make Catholicism look silly and weak."
I would be very careful about presuming to understand the motivations of either of these men. It could be that they are just two individuals who actually BELIEVE in the Messiah and what He taught.
As far as disparaging Fatima, again, I would urge caution. While it IS true that no Catholic is obliged to believe private revelations, this event went far beyond private revelation when 70,000 (and others far away) witnessed the very public Miracle of the Sun. It is also worth noting that every prediction officially released has come to pass.
As far as making Catholics look silly and weak--I think many of us look upon the effeminate hirelings constantly being removed for sexual abuse and the soft-on-doctrine bishops who enable them as being extremely weak and silly. Frankly, they are a huge embarrassment.
Father, since you have expressed your opinion that Vigano has a "few loose screws", could you possibly explain in specific terms why you have come to that conclusion?
I generally agree with your points of view on the liturgy and other matters discussed by you on this post, I would be very careful about making comments on Vigano and Burke, Miller etc. Why? First, because it encourages the Eenemy. Vigano makes statements that you or I are not able to fact check but that does not make his uninformed or just a blowhard. He has spent years in the highest levels in the Church know its movers and shakers as well as any one. Evidently, he has no past he needs to be ashamed of; if he did you would know it now better than McCarrick's past (we are still waiting for the Pope to make public his past) because the Vatican would be spreading it all over the NY Times and Washington Post.
I would urge you to consider what would Sait Paul say about the matters Vigano has revealed? Or the Church Fathers? I would think Bishops in the early centuries would be running to Nicer or Alexandria for trying the culprit such as the afore said Cardinal. Paul confronted Peter when the latter was only trying to soft pedal the dietary issues the Christians had with the traditionally inclined Jewish brethren. Vigano and like individuals remember that Church is in great danger of a formal break with the modernist hierarchs who are heading toward a complete schism from 2000 years orthodox Catholic magisterium.
Thank you Anonymous.
It's long been my opinion that people often accuse others of what they are guilty of themselves--I'll leave it to the psychologists to surmise why.
It has not been lost on me that many people who hold positions that for 2000 years were solidly Catholic are often labeled as "schismatics" by Catholics who fancy themselve on the cutting edge of being "on top" of the "New Church".
The "mainstream" of Catholic leadership and media are anything but.
I would second what Tom Marcus sayd about disparaging Fatima.......he is correct that we are not obligated to believe private revelation, but by the same token, the 70,000 or so that witnessed "The miracle of The Sun" can't ALL be delusional........
"I would be very careful about presuming to understand the motivations of either of these men."
I base my judgment entirely on what they have said and written publicly. That provides me - maybe not you - with sufficient background.
"It could be that they are just two individuals who actually BELIEVE in the Messiah and what He taught."
I hope they do! However, I also hope they will consider that much of what they have written and said is not supported by a belief in the Messiah, but on personal preferences, biases, and prejudices.
Perhaps the biggest failing of Vatican II was replacing the history of the Church with pablum. That may have been intentional since the catechists would have the facts and understand the strength of the Holy Spirit in guiding so many foolish popes. I do concur, however, that the Church put herself in the position that fighting the tide of destruction was too difficult.
"The role of women."
So...does the archbishop want women back in the home, barefoot and...well, you know what? Maybe just aspire to be a secretary. Sorry, those days are not coming back. And we would not have had unrest on our campuses---like the Vietnam war protests---if we had not had Vatican 2. Maybe no Kennedy and King assassinations? No Supreme Court liberal decisions. Could I ask the reverse? If there had been a Vatican 2 in 1900, could we have avoided World Wars 1 and 2? Maybe even the Korean War?
Among the major problems in regard to Archbishop Viganò is that he employs opinions, that he presents, if you will, as dogmas, to smash, defame, and enflame mutinies against Pope Francis, additional Churchmen, Vatican II, and so on.
He has presented in reckless fashion numerous unprovable declarations.
In the interview that Father McDonald has presented, Archbishop Viganò again failed to have distinguished between the true Council, and false Council (the Council of the media, as termed by Pope Benedict XVI).
Archbishop Viganò linked the holy, legitimate, orthodox Second Sacred Vatican Ecumencial Council to the late 1960s revolution that had sought to destroy religious authority, marriage, family, and society.
One could just as easily claim that Vatican II fueled the Kennedy, as well as Martin Luther King assassinations.
After all, Vatican II destroyed morality supposedly. Vatican II created a societal atmosphere in which anarchy and evil had flourished supposedly.
It was in that atmosphere, created by Vatican II supposedly, that said assassinations ocured.
That is the game at which Archbishop Viganò is skilled.
Here is an additional example of Archbishop Viganò's recklessness:
He wishes us to believe that the priesthood is awash in homosexuality and the sexual abuse of minors.
He wishes us to believe that one diocese after another is controlled by homosexual perverts.
The above reckless claims serve only to cast doubt upon, and defame, one holy Catholic priest after another.
Archbishop Viganò has trafficked in the issuance of reckless, destructive, defamatory claims.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT says:
He wishes us to believe that the priesthood is awash in homosexuality and the sexual abuse of minors.
What planet have YOU lived on for the last 10 years.......priests are STILL being busted as I write this. You cannot fight a problem if you don't acknowledge it.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Vigano, like Altman, is a loon."
Why wasn't this uncharitable comment deleted?
This is why:
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB19gR9M.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f&x=1213&y=368
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