Tuesday, May 28, 2013


Pope Francis celebrating EF Mass?

This pope is an enigma and I wouldn't put it past him to celebrate the EF Mass during his papacy!

The Hermeneutic of Continuity Blog out of England is reporting the following, which I lift from that blog!

Pope Francis rejects attack on old rite and says "treasure tradition"

The Bishops of the region of Tavoliere met recently with Pope Francis on an ad limina visit. On their return home, one has given a fascinating glimpse of the attitude of Pope Francis to those who are seeking to use the opportunity of his papacy to attack the traditional Mass. This is reported in the Italian paper Il Foglio, in the article: La messa antica non si tocca, il Papa gesuita spiazza ancora tutti ("The old mass is not to be touched, the Jesuit Pope wrong-foots everyone")

Here is my translation of the relevant part of the article which tells of other bishops raising concerns with the Holy Father and goes on to speak of the intervention concerning the old Mass:

Then it was the turn of the bishop of Conversano and Monopoli, Domenico Padovano, who recounted to the clergy of his diocese how the priority of the bishops of the region of Tavoliere had been that of explaining to the Pope that the mass in the old rite was creating great divisions within the Church. The underlying message: Summorum Pontificum should be cancelled, or at least strongly limited. But Francis said no.

Mgr Padovano explained that Francis replied to them saying that they should be vigilant over the extremism of certain traditionalist groups but also suggesting that they should treasure tradition and create the necessary conditions so that tradition might be able to live alongside innovation.

This is not really a surprise (did anyone expect that Pope Francis would somehow "repeal" Summorum Pontificum?) but it is a welcome confirmation of what we would all expect.

[THIS IS THE MOST SALIENT POINT THIS BLOG POST FROM THE HERMENEUTIC OF CONTINUITY AND ONE WE SHOULD ALL REMEMBER, ESPECIALLY BISHOPS:] One thing that jumps out of the story is that the bishops of this region judged that their main pastoral priority - to be communicated to the Pope on a five-yearly visit - was to attack Summorum Pontificum. Forget abortion, embryo experimentation, the push for same-sex marriage throughout Europe, the loss of faith of many Catholics and our failure in catechesis and evangelisation. No, the really big problem is a small number of priests legitimately saying the old Mass. Given what Pope Francis has said about the danger of being a self-referential Church, I can well imagine he gave them short shrift.

MY COMMENTS: Yes, really, is the biggest problem in the Church the 1962 Missal, the Extraordinary Form of the Mass? this pope knows the real problems of the Church, the demonic that inspires people to try to be a bogus Magisterium for the masses, like communist dictatorships, democratic governments imposing immorality on the Church, academic institutions that are promoting godless secularism, Catholic academics pushing for women priests, same sex marriage and artificial birth control and abortion.

The LCWR and other bogus leadership organizations that oppose the legitimate authority of the Church are the problem not the EF Mass or kneeling for Holy Communion or Intinction!


Gene said...

Parenthetically, I notice a Vatican spokesman had to clarify the Pope's recent comments on atheists and other non-believers possibly getting a break. I guess I wasn't the only one who saw some universalist/Pelagian undertones in his homily the other day...

Gene said...

The Pope is sending mixed signals, as is the Church generally. We have Dolan saying that he and Cuomo will have to "agree to disagree" on abortion, while saying that Cuomo can still be a Catholic in good standing...Bishop Hubbard saying that just because Cuomo and his girlfriend are living together out of wedlock does not mean they should not "come to the Communiuon rail..." Wuerl saying it is the communicant's responsibility to stay away from receiving and that Church law was not meant to bring politicians to heel..." This is what we are up against. Now, until the Liturgy is brought into sync with Catholic theology and doctrine and not turned toward secular humanism, as in the NO, many people are going to find it difficult to take this Pope or any Pope seriously. Luther spoke of the "Babylonian Captivity of the Church" in relation to indulgences and other abuses; today's Babylonian Captivity of the Church is secular humanism and a screwed up Liturgy. Hopefully, this Pope or one to come soon will figure this out.

rcg said...

Gene is right about the mixed messages, but I think it is more of a problem set before the Bishops so that they chose correctly. this simple repudiation is a perfect example.

And, yes, the biggest problem with he Church today is the EF. It is a thorn in the side of everyone who thinks they can worship God on their own terms.

rcg said...

And something I have not seen commented: That was extraordinarily disrespectful of those Bishops to to approach Pope Francis with this request while Pope Emeritus Benedict is still alive.

I wonder what possessed them.

John Nolan said...

It is no secret that some of the Italian bishops threatened to go into schism if Benedict celebrated the traditional Mass as pope (he did so as cardinal). Parish liturgy in Italy (not excluding Rome) is as bad as is the norm everywhere else - sloppy celebration, pop-style music, lay people of either sex infesting the sanctuary, avoidance of Latin as a fundamental principle. And, as elsewhere, the minority of Catholics who still attend lap it up. Decades of brainwashing have eradicated what critical faculties they may have once possessed.

My advice is to have no truck with it. Although universal it is still a grotesque aberration. Support a parish, even if it means going out of your way, that celebrates the liturgy in a dignified manner.

It is commonplace to castigate traditionalists for being too fussy. I make no secret of preferring the classic Roman rite to that which replaced it. Yet I would have no objection to attending a vernacular NO Mass, even one versus populum, celebrated decently with either no music at all, or with just the missal chants. If done according to the norms of 1970 there could be lay readers, but not the more recent excrescences. I wouldn't want it every Sunday, but if it were within ten miles it would be a useful default option.

Henry said...

"Parish liturgy in Italy (not excluding Rome) is as bad as is the norm everywhere else."

Which is why whatever liturgical abuses are observed when the Pope visits a Roman parish should not be taken as normative, or what the Pope himself personally prefers.

Just as the abuses a diocesan bishop might be subjected to--along with everyone else present--when he visits one of his diocesan parishes may not be what he himself prefers.

Even bishops and popes, when visiting St. LooseGoose Parish, tends to do there whatever the LooseGoosers do. After all, these days nobody, not even bishops, can ever afford to offend anyone however goofy.

Anonymous said...

John Nolan - Would you name the bishops who threatened to go into schism?

Gene said...

All the talk about simplicity and the way of the Cross, etc. is fine. I used to preach sermons like that as a Calvinist. Protestants still preach that stuff. But, simplicity is also purity of doctrine and purity of worship...which presuppose purity of heart. All the talk about simplicity, etc. without the fundamental structure of true Catholic identity and liturgy is like saying "I want to be in the army, but I ain't gonna' march."

Carol H. said...


You should be ashamed of yourself. You are asking Mr. Nolan to commit a mortal sin.

Joseph Johnson said...

John Nolan,
I agree very much with your viewpoint but I would like a link or reference to any storie(s) about the Italian bishops threatening schism over the possibility of the Pope celebrating the EF.

Joseph Johnson said...

John Nolan,
I agree very much with your viewpoint but I would like a link or reference to any storie(s) about the Italian bishops threatening schism over the possibility of the Pope celebrating the EF.

Joseph Johnson said...

I didn't mean to post the same comment twice. For some reason, my computer acted as if it hadn't registered the comment the first time and I had to retype the word code. Sorry . .

Gene said...

I read this morning in Creative Minority report that Cardinal Dolan admits that his Diocese pays for health care plans that directly pay for abortion and birth control...but, he says, they do it under "protest." Nice. This is the kind of "spiritual wickedness in high places" that we are dealing with. Christ have mercy!@

Marc said...

The less attention paid to Cardinal Dolan, the happier you will be, Gene. It would be more profitable to read about his predecessor -- a fellow named Judas, who used to hang around our Blessed Lord...