Archbishop Cordileone, maybe a cardinal one day, speaks frankly to EWTN (Vatican New) Raymond Aroyo about a number of subjects.
Keep in mind that the good Archbishop of San Francisco celebrates the TLM frequently, ordained several deacons and subdeacons in Italy at the beginning of July and of course met with Pope Leo about his appointment to the Supreme Apostolic Signatura.
Keep in mind, besides His Excellency’s celebrating regularly the TLM and the Bugnini Mass in a TLM way, he also corrected US Representative Nancy Pelosi and asked that she not receive Holy Communion because of her public heterodox and heretical embrace of the Democratic Party’s pro-abortion and pro-death politics.
A great must-see interview:
14 comments:
Archbishop Cordileone was trashed today on various Catholic sites in regard to his remarks in question to Raymond Arroyo.
The complaints centered upon that which various folks despise to hear. That is, those who desire "the Latin Mass" must jump through the following hoop:
You want the "Latin Mass"? Then you must "accept" Vatican II.
The SSPX encountered that via the following from Pope Leo XIV:
“But they refuse to accept certain fundamental elements of the Church, starting with several points from the Second Vatican Council.”
Archbishop Cordileone added that certain "precautions" must accompany any move to "free" the "Latin Mass." However, the Archbishop had failed to delineate said "precautions."
Various responses on X related to Archbishop Cordileone's remarks in question:
Edgarson
@Edgarson_777
"First off, the archbishop is only partly correct. The current pontiff wants to bring non-CONSERVATIVE people together. He met with all kinds of people... except the SSPX. It was "capitulate or else". Then they were gone. The most vital, growing part of the Catholic Church.
"Now THIS: "The Archbishop added that if the Mass is allowed generously, those who attend must remain in full communion and accept the teachings of Vatican II."
"Had he a shred of understanding WHY people prefer the Latin Mass (pro tip: It's not because it's in Latin, it's because of the theology inherent in it) he would know there can't be an acceptance of the 'teachings of Vatican II' WHICH, by the way, was said to be a 'pastoral' council, not a dogmatic one."
"And finally, regarding the actual teachings of Vatican II, he means the pontiff's INTERPRETATION of those teachings, which were very vaguely written. On purpose. Like what it says about Islam."
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Alpha Beticus
@MoresJustus
·
"Yeah… that’s the whole problem.
“The Archbishop added that if the Mass is allowed generously, those who attend must remain in full communion and accept the teachings of Vatican II.“
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Michael Jarman
@mjarman775
"Please explain which teachings of Vatican II are doctrinal and novel (that is, not restatements of prior doctrine) that must be accepted by any Catholic who wants to be “in full communion” with you, Excellency.
'Be specific. Also explain our forefathers’ deficiency in doctrine."
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As Archbishop Cordileone has made clear, the price to obtain the "Latin Mass" is "acceptance" of Vatican II — a Council that Trad Inc. has long trashed as a supposed failed, destructive, horrific mistake.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Archbishop Cordileone made the following clear via his interview with Raymond Arroyo: In regard to various Catholics who seek the "traditional form of Mass":
Rome had best accommodate said folks, or, said folks will walk break communion with Rome.
National Catholic Register: Archbishop Cordelione:
"Let us pray that an ardent effort toward sincere and honest dialogue will soon start up, and that easier access to the traditional form of the Mass will be available to our people, so they will not feel as if they are constrained to seek spiritual nourishment outside of the family in union with Rome."
“My concern is that if these restrictions remain in place, as I said in my statement, people will feel they have no choice to find where they experience being spiritually nourished in kind of the more traditional form of way the Church worships – they have to go outside of officially approved institutions and communities,” the archbishop said.
“They will do that.”
Pax.
Mark Thomas
One positive from Archbishop Cordelione's interview: He insisted, as numerous reports have noted recently, that an increasing amount of young Catholics have embraced the Holy Mass of Pope Paul VI.
Infovaticana:
(Archbishop Cordelione):
"We see the younger generation. They all love tradition. They love the more classical way the Church celebrates worship.”
According to him, that interest is not limited to the celebration of the traditional Mass, but also extends to celebrations of the reformed rite carried out with greater solemnity, sacred music, and the priest facing ad orientem.
"Even the current form of the Mass, celebrated in a more traditional way, with the priest ad orientem, sacred music, great solemnity and reverence, is what they desire."
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The unrelenting attacks against the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI that have marked various aged trad liturgical warmongers is of Z-E-R-O interest to young trads who have embraced said Mass.
Archbishop Cordileone insisted also that among Catholics who assist at Latin Masses, their acceptance of Vatican II has proved true for "the most part."
If true, then Trad Inc's longstanding war against Vatican II has ceased to resonate among numerous trads.
If Archbishop Cordileone possesses solid insight into trad society, then trads, aged trads in particular, who have long bashed Vatican II, as well as Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI, are dinosaurs...
...folks whose old, tired attacks against the Council, as well as Holy Ghost-guided liturgical reform, are of Z-E-R-O interest to an increasing amount of Catholics who have embraced the Roman Liturgical Tradition via the TLM, as well as Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
This will give two posters here the sadz!
So much ink spilled on speculating about speculation.
Yes, but I think we can speculate that Pope Leo will revise Traditionis Custodis, especially its legislative aspects post TC in the same way he has already revised so many bad decisions of Pope Francis, most of them in the last years of his papacy as he became enfeebled by age and sickness opening him to behind the scenes manipulation. Pope Leo doesn’t cancel Pope Francis decrees but radically revises these.
Based upon Archbishop Cordileone horrific portrayal of trads, said folks would embrace the grave sin of schism rather than worship God via a reverent holy vernacular Mass offered, for example, by Father McDonald.
The Archbishop, via his appearance with Raymond Arroyo, had portrayed trads as shallow folks who have turned the Latin Mass into an idol...
...folks who would not hesitate to embrace the grave sin of schism should they not obtain ready access to the Latin Mass.
Somebody who had been paid to trash trads could not have topped Archbishop Cordileone's appearance/comments on The World Over.
Archbishop Cordileone insisted that absent an approved Latin Mass, trads would "seek spiritual nourishment outside of the family in union with Rome."
Trads would “have no choice to find where they experience being spiritually nourished in kind of the more traditional form of way the Church worships – they have to go outside of officially approved institutions and communities."
“They will do that...people will then go to these other groups that are not in full communion with the See of Rome."
It is unbelievable that Raymond Arroyo had failed to challenge Archbishop Cordileone's horrific portrayal of "traditional" Catholics as folks who would obtain "spiritual nourishment" supposedly via the grave sin of schism.
That is, unless Raymond Arroyo had accepted as accurate Archbishop Cordileone's bleak portrayal of trads.
What a dreadful, disastrous appearance by Archbishop Cordileone.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark, that is libel. He said some. I would like you to focus on the radical non trads, some in schism, others nones, but I guess a few still claim Catholicism. Do you homework in that area. The book on the Archdiocese of Baltimore will help you very much.
He’s unhinged from reality, so that will never happen.
Father, I noted simply that Archbishop Cordileone insisted that Latin Mass folks operate as follows: Rome had best provide the Latin Mass, or they will "seek spiritual nourishment outside of the family in union with Rome."
If I am guilty of libel, then Archbishop Cordileone is most certainly guilty of libel.
Anyway, I find it interesting that I've been lectured, while Archbishop Cordileone is the man who delivered the remarks in question that I had quoted merely.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Agree with Fr. David Evans.
As the same time, it is plausible that one could conclude things cannot remain as they are.
Change here seems like an easy decision given the suffering of those devoted to this form of mass.
Last, agree with TJM, there will be sadz that accompany any change that provides greater access. What's puzzling about the anticipated sadz is that those who might experience said sadz have more than enough to be glad about regarding their respective agendas and ideologies.
ByzRus,
Good to hear from you!
I think we all need to take a deep breath. The rank injustice of forbidding the Traditional Mass is going to remain, but that Mass isn't going away. The Church will continue to be governed by questionable men of questionable appetites with a few good ones in the mix to give us hope. Our hope should be in God. The world AS IT IS is doomed. Mankind has chosen a course of self-destruction that cannot be reversed--but it will be stopped. Every sign and every reading of the messages of various saints point to a warning and chastisement that will change everything. God will restore his Church. We have to pray, do penance and suffer under the current reign of fluff. Pius X foresaw the whole mess, he warned us and we didn't listen. We can do it the easy way or the hard way, but in the end, it will be done GOD'S WAY.
Stop playing the innocent! Archbishop Cordileone's remarks were general in nature. He did not say, nor did he imply, that all those attached to the old Mass would go into schism if not placated. The FSSP exists precisely because there are those who will not go into schism despite poor and unjust treatment. This also goes for those numberless priests and laity in the dioceses attached to the old Mass. Stop what is nothing but an attempt at character assassination. You might think that you are being cute but all that it does is sully your own reputation.
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