Rigid Catholics who think the pre-Vatican II Mass and all that accompanies it cannot have a place in the Church fail to recognize the actual schism in the Church and it is Catholics leaving for Protestant sects, the non-denominationals in particular. These schismatic Catholics far outnumber those who are members of the FSSPX or any sedevacantists groups and even those who attend the TLM under the authority of their local bishops.
To the heterodox left, the Tridientine Mass and its theological outlook on the world, the flesh and the devil is the main threat to Catholic unity! But they are dead wrong and ideological in their approach to TLM Catholics in full communion with the Pope and bishops in union with him. It’s the non-denominationals that is the ongoing threat to full communion with the Church. Catholics joining these sects are the largest schismatic group of Catholics in the world! Why am I the only one calling attention to this fact and complaining about it?
From AI:
- Leaving for Protestantism: Among those raised Catholic, 14% now identify as Protestant, a category that often includes non-denominational believers.
- Overall Loss: Catholicism faces the highest net loss due to religious switching, with over six people leaving the faith for every convert to Catholicism.
- Non-Denominational Growth: Non-denominational churches are among the fastest-growing groups in the U.S., growing from less than 3% in 1972 to nearly 40 million people (14% of adults) in 2025.
- The "Nones": While many join non-denominational churches, a higher percentage of former Catholics (56%) become religiously unaffiliated ("nones").
26 comments:
Father McDonald,
Not quite on point but this article will interest you on a lawyer's take on the loopholes in Sacrosanctum Concilium which led to the current mess:
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2026/04/sacrosanctum-concilium-lawyer-examines.html#more
nearly 100% of Roman Catholic parishes teach no true spiritual life because most clergy have no true spiritual life, offering only rote prayers and devotions.
No true experience of God, so people leave looking for answers elsewhere, and Catholics accustomed to dead parishes mistake the emotionalism of non-denominational services as "spiritual"- for a little while, anyhow, before they find it, too, only a rote thing with little or no answers to their yearnings to KNOW God is real.
I agree that banal liturgies trying to mock non-denominational style of music, which we do miserably and isn’t a part of our patrimony, prepares Catholics for the non-denominationals. But many Catholics are looking for friends and people who think and act like they do and they want good Bible studies within the context of community. Protestants have always excelled at fellowship and Sunday school based on age groups. Our priorities, even prior to Vatican II are different. But the post-Vatican II Church trying to borrow much of Protestantism in worship and fellowship, but falling short, prepares more Catholics for Protestantism.
In others words, Protestants are good at what they do whereas when Catholic parishes try to imitate that, they aren’t as good, but they have wetted the appetite of Catholics who like Protestant ways.
In regard to the Rorate Caeli/Chris Ferrara article that TJM referenced:
Rorate Caeli/Chris Ferrara wished to "prove" that Sacrosanctum Concilium/Vatican II is rotten to its core...spiritual poison.
Therefore, the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is supposed spiritual poison as said Mass flowed from...is in perfect continuity with...Sacrosanctum Concilium/Vatican II.
To reform-the-reform...to return to supposed rotten-to-its core Sacrosanctum Concilium...is absurd, as we will only end up with a new Mass that will also serve as spiritual poison.
The only way supposed way forward is to condemn Vatican II...to return to the TLM exclusively. That is what Catholics are expected to believe.
Chris Ferrara/Rorate Caeli...good luck attempting to accomplish such anti-Catholic nonsense as that.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas,
It is only one man's opinion and should not be used to disparage or dismiss all those who are attracted to the old Mass.
Mr. Cut and Paste offers nothing as usual.
I was speaking of parishes in general, whether banal modern attempts at imitating protestant worship styles, or the most solemn by the book celebration, it all treated as a rote sacrament dispensing station, with no attempts to share the vast spiritual insights and practices developed in 2000yrs of Church history.
Rorate Caeli reprinted yesterday Chris Ferrara's 2005 A.D. essay in which he demonstrated that as Holy Mother Church has taught, the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is in continuity with Sacrosanctum Concilium.
Chris Ferrara stated that he had "grown tired" of the following claim by "conservatives" (his quotation marks/emphasis):
"...if only SC were implemented “as the Council intended,” why then we would have an “authentic reform of the liturgy” in the “true spirit of Vatican II.”
He had concluded that Sacrosanctum Concilium is rotten and destructive to its core.
Nevertheless, via his having quoted Papal teachings, Chris Ferrara noted that the Church has taught that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI has flowed perfectly from Sacrosanctum Concilium.
Again, that has shattered the claims of reform-the-reform folks who have insisted that the Catholic Church had botched Her post-Vatican II liturgical reform.
As Chris Ferrara noted, to claim that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is not in continuity with Sacrosanctum Concilium is to accuse Popes of having erred "gravely in their authoritative interpretation of a Conciliar document. Quite a quandary."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Chris Ferrara: The "New Mass is precisely what SC authorized and therefore precisely what the Council intended. This fact is very difficult for “conservatives” to acknowledge."
Rorate Caeli reprinted yesterday Chris Ferrara's 2005 A.D. essay in which he demonstrated that as Holy Mother Church has taught, the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is in continuity with Sacrosanctum Concilium.
Chris Ferrara stated that he had "grown tired" of the following claim by "conservatives" (his quotation marks/emphasis):
"...if only SC were implemented “as the Council intended,” why then we would have an “authentic reform of the liturgy” in the “true spirit of Vatican II.”
He had concluded that Sacrosanctum Concilium is rotten and destructive to its core.
Nevertheless, via his having quoted Papal teachings, Chris Ferrara noted accurately that the Church has taught unhesitatingly that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI has flowed perfectly from Sacrosanctum Concilium.
Again, that has shattered the claims of reform-the-reform folks who have insisted that the Catholic Church had botched Her post-Vatican II liturgical reform.
As Chris Ferrara noted, to claim that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is not in continuity with Sacrosanctum Concilium is to accuse Popes of having erred "gravely in their authoritative interpretation of a Conciliar document. Quite a quandary."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Chris Ferrara: The "New Mass is precisely what SC authorized and therefore precisely what the Council intended. This fact is very difficult for “conservatives” to acknowledge."
Is Mr. Cut and Paste the person who has cut and pasted hundreds of quotes and links to Father's blog...who had cut and pasted the link to the Rorate Caeli/Chris Ferrara article?
Just asking. :-)
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Father McDonald, that you for having allowed Mr. Cut and Paste TJM to have performed that at which he has long excelled: Having cut and pasted us off-topic.
For once, Mr. Cut and Paste TJM has "off-topiced" us to an interesting link.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Anthony, who disparaged or dismissed all those who are attracted to the old Mass?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas, you are constantly presenting sentiments of hardline traditionalists as reasons that no compromise can be made or accomplished with those attached to the old Mass.
Agreed! MT needs to take Pope Francis synodality to heart.
Father Anthony, like Cardinal Roche, MT Suit used to be a big supporter of the TLM, then the winds shifted when Pope Benedict died
Anthony said..."Mark Thomas, you are constantly presenting sentiments of hardline traditionalists as reasons that no compromise can be made or accomplished with those attached to the old Mass."
Anthony, it is unfortunate that there are many, speaking relatively, "hardline traditionalists." That has been my experience, anyway, ever since the 1960s when I had become familiar with the TLM Movement.
But beyond my experience with the trad movement, there are trads who have boasted that "hardline traditionalists" have abounded with said movement.
Example: TJM has claimed that the overwhelming amount of trads, laity and otherwise, share his hatred of Vatican II, the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI...that trads are determined to work for the destruction of the Council, reformed Mass...
But I pray that an increasing amount of young Catholics, trads or "Novus Ordo," who reject "hardline" traditionalism, will abound to counter Trad Inc.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT Suit is lying again, his stock and trade. I never said I hated Vatican II. I just point out the obvious, that only the braindead cannot acknowledge. That it has been a flop and that the Novus Bogus violates the principles of Sacrosanctum Concilium. Even Holy, Holy, All Highest Oracle of God, Benedict said it was a banal, made-up on the spot liturgy. Is MT Suit more knowledgeable about liturgy than Pope Benedict and denying his Holy Oracleness?
MT, are any of those horrible trads or mean TLM'ers in the room with you right now?
Father McDonald,
This is for your enjoyment, this Saturday morning:
https://www.liturgicalartsjournal.com/2026/04/spanish-colonial-style-retablos-and.html
Here is a heartwarming story on how the TLM is drawing young Frenchmen to the Faith. I have been in this Church in Paris:
https://www.ncregister.com/news/in-paris-traditional-liturgy-is-drawing-a-new-generation-to-the-church
Anthony, are you a priest? If you are, then I apologize for not having addressed you as "Father."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
It is early Saturday morning, and TJM has added two additional Cut and Paste posts to his millions upon millions of Cut and Paste posts.
I thought that Cut and Paste is bad?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Fr. AJM, this is more a Roman Catholic phenomenon than that of the aggregate Catholic Communion. We in the East are hesitant to criticize openly, yet we do at times stare in disbelief. Our liturgical life is such that any need is met and the notion of creating a gateway, if not a superhighway to protestantism, is wholly foreign to us.
No problem. Before registration was required I identified myself, Fr. Anthony Forte. After registering with Google my first name appears and I do not know how to change it.
I enjoy Father McDonald's blog a lot. He picks very apt items to include which are very interesting to read. I do wish the comments were not so confrontational at times, though. I can excuse a commenter because his peculiar writing style and content suggest to me the possibility of being autistic, in which case he probably can't help himself and thus in charity should not be personally attacked. Actually, nobody who comments should be personally attacked for any reason.
Mine is only posting an article, not scads of disjointed and contradictory posts.
You need to crawl back under your rock since you have NEVER answered my question about what Pope Francis did to discipline the clerics involved in the cocaine fueled gay sex orgy at the Vatican. Is it because they were friends of Francis? Did he actually condone it? Do you approve it? Are you K, the All Highest? Inquiring minds want to know!
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