CCC: 2246: "It is a part of the Church's mission "to pass moral judgments even in matters related to politics..." 53 53. Second Vatican Council, Gaudium et Spes, #76
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Jacquelyn Martin / POOL / AFP via Getty; Alberto PIZZOLI / AFP via Getty
No matter what political affiliation a person claims, if you are a post-Vatican II Catholic, heterodox left or heterodox right, chances are that a post Vatican II Catholic might raise their politics, right or left, higher than the Church and her moral teachings.
We see that with Catholics who are democrats and how they resent the Church, meaning the pope and bishops, interfering with abortion rights in this country.
And now we are seeing heterodox right Catholics telling Pope Leo to stop interfering with the war mongering policies of the current administration and to stick to morality! This is not just coloring book Catholicism, but educational ignorance which is so prevalent in both the religious and secular world today and for the past 50 years!
In addition to that, coloring book Catholics turn to the political talking points of their political affliation to make their points, not against their political party and favorite political idols, but against the pope and the Church—Catholics are doing this at the lead of non-Catholics!
Vice President JD Vance, a post-Vatican II Catholic convert and political operative makes his coloring book Catholicism very explicit by the manner in which he uses political talking points to denigrate the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church.
Fortunately, those who long for the pre-Vatican II Church know that this kind of excrement would not have been tolerated in the 1950’s The nuns would crack your knuckles and priest refuse you Holy Communion! Oh! For the good old days!
And to emphasize their coloring book Catholicism, they wanted President Biden denied Holy Communion for his abortion politics, but they themselves want Holy Communion all the while denigrating in a public way the pope for teaching Catholic morals as it concerns war and the promotion of peace!!!!!
- Vice President JD Vance suggested the Vatican focus on morality and leave U.S. policy to the president during a Fox News interview
- His comments came after President Donald Trump criticized Pope Leo XIV on Truth Social, calling him “WEAK on Crime” and "terrible for Foreign Policy"
- Pope Leo XIV responded by reaffirming his commitment to the church’s mission and speaking out against wars
16 comments:
Although I don’t necessarily agree with everything this Atheist has to say, this article’s sweep of history and scripture should cause even the most ardent papalator pause. Also recent polls show even Church going Catholics don’t support Leo. Sending Cupich out to bash Republicans is not a game changer.
https://jupplandia.substack.com/p/pope-leos-subversion-of-the-catholic
Why, TJM, why are you proving my point about your politicized coloring book Catholicism??? So now the Supreme Pontiff is to be judged by political polls? What in the Name of God and all that ids holy caused you to betray God and His Church and His Vicar? Joe did you ever give into MAGA idolatry. Not a peep out of you about the blasphemous AI generated image of the President of the USA posting himself as Christ and then proving he is a pathological liar by saying he was a doctor.
Father McDonald,
Pope Leo and his camp followers are willfully ignoring history and scripture, which sounds coloring book to me. If the Church can sit by and watch thousands of innocent Iranians being slaughtered by a brutal government and Christians murdered in Africa with no protest, then the Church's statements on this war wring hollow. The Church just looks like it is in bed with big government, depending on governmental largesse as it does in Germany.
Were you aghast when Obama was portrayed as a Christlike figure or a God? Were you and the Pope demanding he stop bombing Libya or killing people with drones? Were you happy with governmental spending on abortion when fake Catholic Biden was president and jailing grandmothers for protesting outside of abortion clinics? Where was the Pope on that? Sorry, no sale.
You are digging deeper into your coloring book political Catholicism. Please, what in your post Vatican II, spirit of Vatican II, Catholicism has made you so heterodox. Are you leaning toward a MAGA Sedevacanist sect?
Father McDonald,
I could say the same of you, ignoring Church history and scripture on war and peace. You are better than that. The Pope's views in this matter, fortunately, are not binding on Catholics. Do you recall "Deus Vult?" The Church would have been better served if Leo had simply said he was praying for peace and hope the parties could resolve this. Sadly, the Iranian Regime was (and is) evil and you could never trust them. What is telling is that the weanies in Europe are against the US but the Arab nations in the region are with the US and want us to finish the job.
We clearly would have lost WW II and be enslaved today if we followed his lead on this.
No TJM! You are digging yourself deeper. Just repent. You are entitled to your political preferences but as a Catholic denigrating the legitimacy of the moral teachings that Pope Leo or any pope is teaching and a part of the Deposit of Faith and doing so from a political point of view, is not Catholic.
I will not defend Trump's embarrassing buffoonery comments, he always has been chaotic, nor am I sure the powers that be know what they are doing in this current conflict, where any administration in my lifetime has shown remarkable ineptitude in conflicts with the exception of Desert Storm.
However, they generally have had a far better grasp on geopolitical reality than anyone in the Vatican in that same time period, and the Vatican predictable singing of, "All we are saying is give peace a chance," is tiresome in the extreme, especially from the folks who threw faithful eastern Europe Catholics to the wolves during the Cold War, and quiet as the church mice they are in allowing the Chinese dictatorship to pervert Church teachings in their "peace at any cost" lurching, and from the same weasles burying non-stop basest financial and sexual corruption inside the Vatican.
Bob, there are tactical errors that the Vatican can make and has made in the areas of diplomacy and engaging political realities and world leaders, some dictators, others of a monarchy and others duly elected in a democratic fashion. Saint John Paul II speaking face to face with President George W. Bush, said basically what Leo is saying now. President Bush did not change his policies nor did he challenge the pope or call His Holiness out or mock Christ. What is different with Pope Leo is that we have a president who is narcissistic, a pathological liar and incapable of receiving criticism without then resorting to name calling, denigrating those around him and others, with verbal abuse, and also compulsive with his tweets and social media postings. We’re dealing with a man who has serious mental issues and perhaps a sociopath. That should concern every American and the entire world. He’s not the president of little ole Nicaragua but the president of the strongest and most powerful nation on earth and he has the ability to ignite a nuclear war while off his meds!,
Off his meds and on the Kool-Aid. You'd think that the White House staff would unplug the internet overnight or find some other way of disabling his phone.
It seems that our reverend and dear Father Mc Donald has chosen to side with America Magazine, the Natl. catholic Reporter, etc., in denigrating our newly baptize Catholics. The wind of the Spirit blows where it will!
"All we are saying is give peace a chance" is tiresome?
John 14:27 "27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." So tiresome......
Leviticus 6:24-26 "I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid. I will remove wild beasts from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country." Yawn....
Isaiah 26:3-4 "With firm purpose you maintain peace; in peace, because of our trust in you. Trust in the LORD forever! For the LORD is an eternal Rock." Sleepy time.....
Romans 14:19 "Let us then pursue what leads to peace and to building up one another." Where do they GET this stuff.....?
James 3:17-18 "But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for those who cultivate peace."
So tiresome.....
Of course, Vice President JD Vance, a heartbeat away from becoming President and perhaps the next president by election, is not your ordinary neophyte. It is untoward for the Vice President, Catholic or not, to give advice to the Supreme Pontiff on what he should stick too and make a mistake about what the Just War theory is and that the pope isn’t capable of teaching it.
Screw the Second Vatican Council. If all you can do is cite authorities and toss the word heretic around., then you have nothing to add to the discussion. Go back to memorizing your scripted spiels. All of the Scriptures you allude to are about the peace of the covenant community, not "world peace" or peace between nations. All you are accomplishing is to put your Biblical illiteracy on full display for all to see.
Maybe you are not Catholic and thus sola scriptura. That is not Catholic, we are Scripture And Tradition. You would not have the canon of the New Testament if not for Tradition!
G. Poulin - The covenant community is meant to include the entire world, not be limited to some small subset of folks. Thus, peace among nations can be - and should be - partakers in the Peace of Christ.
"Never again war! Never again hatred and intolerance! War is a defeat for humanity!" - St. Pope John Paul II
"War is a useless slaughter and a failure of humanity." - Pope Benedict XVI
"Never again war. With war everything is lost. War is always a defeat." Pope Francis
"Enough of the display of power. Enough of war! True strength is shown in serving life!" Pope Leo XIV
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