Tuesday, March 13, 2018

I FIND THIS PARAGRAPH INTERESTING



Pope Benedict speaks from the "tomb" of his residence. But does this paragraph defend Pope Francis or the other Holy Father, Pope Benedict. What interesting times we live with two popes speaking in defense of each other and one from the tomb defending himself!

“I applaud this initiative - Benedict XVI writes - that wants to oppose and react to the foolish prejudice for which Pope Francis would be only a practical man without particular theological or philosophical formation, while I would have been only a theorist of theology with little understanding of the concrete life of a Christian today”.  

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

"What interesting times we live with two popes speaking in defense of each other and one from the tomb defending himself!"

Fake News.

We have one pope, Francis. We have one pope-emeritus, Benedict XVI.

To suggest otherwise is dishonest.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

If you read the Vatican Radio story on Pope Benedict, His Holiness is referred to by the author of the story as Pope Benedict which His Holiness is mentioned by name. Go read it and then correct the Vatican.

Anonymous said...

No, I correct you. There is one pope and one pope emeritus. To suggest otherwise is dishonest and misleading. The "Vatican" news story is incorrect, and you knowingly pass on incorrect info.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Strike two and one more and you are out. Do you refer to Pope Paul VI, Blessed Pope Paul VI or Saint Pope John XIII or Saint Pope John Paul II as the late pope? No it isn't done. A pope, retired or dead is Pope So and So. Once a pope always a pope. That is why Pope Benedict did not cease using the title because in death he would be Pope Benedict. And of course in life too.

ByzRC said...

Father, I don't disagree with your assertion however, Pope Benedict XVI is the Pope Emeritus and, outside of schism, he has no more authority than a retired general. To me, this is an attempt at damage control, not a bombshell.

TJM said...

Father McDonald,

You are correct of course and I really don't understand the agenda of Anonymous. It has a whiff of Eau de Kavanaugh

Henry said...

As Fr. Z points out, this self-referential paragraph does not sound like one Pope Benedict would have written. Did he actually write it? Or is it fake news?

Anonymous said...

"Do you refer to Pope Paul VI, Blessed Pope Paul VI or Saint Pope John XIII or Saint Pope John Paul II as the late pope?"

No, they're dead. They don't give interviews or write books or letters.

We have one pope, Francis. We have one pope emeritus, Benedict XVI.

To write, ""What interesting times we live with two popes speaking in defense of each other and one from the tomb defending himself!" is to distort the truth intentionally.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Strike 3.

I'm sticking with Pope Benedict who has written that there is one papacy today with two expressions, one contemplative and the other active. Obviously you differ with Pope Benedict and your issue is with him not me. I'm sure you can look up His Holiness address at His Holiness' place of contemplation at the Vatican monastery where His Holiness resides.

Anonymous said...

"The official style of the former Pope in English is His Holiness Benedict XVI, Supreme Pontiff Emeritus or Pope Emeritus. Less formally he is referred to as emeritus pope or Roman pontifex emeritus." -Wiki

"It is the unprecedented innovation that Ratzinger seems to want to put into practice. It has been announced by his secretary, Georg Gänswein. Redoubling the already abundant ambiguities of the pontificate of Francis."

Unprecedented.

Ambiguities.

"And most recently the archbishop in closest contact with him, Georg Gänswein, has told us that Benedict “has by no means abandoned the office of Peter,” but on the contrary has made it “an expanded ministry, with an active member and a contemplative member,” in “a collegial and synodal dimension, almost a shared ministry."

These staggering statements from Gänswein, made on May 20 in the aula magna of the Pontifical Gregorian University, have sown dismay among Ratzinger’s admirers themselves. Because no one doubts that they correspond to his thought and were authorized by him. But no one would have expected from him such an unheard-of act of rupture in the history of the papacy.

Ganswein, not Benedict.

One pope, not two.

ByzRC said...

Anonymous -

My own feeling is that we are speaking of his ministry - being a fisher of men as opposed to a legislator. I could be wrong, but, I don't sense any rupture here.

Rood Screen said...

"Pope" is an honorary title for an office, but not an office in itself, strictly speaking. It would be wrong to refer to Benedict XVI as the "Bishop of Rome", however. His official office is now "pontiff emeritus".

Fr Martin Fox said...

If Pope Francis does not resign, I suspect it will be a long time before another pope resigns. This has been an unfortunate episode in the papacy. I love Pope Benedict, but I wish he had not resigned. And that wish is not a comment on his successor. His resignation creates too many problems.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Empathizing with Pope Francis, he is in the most unusual situation faced by no modern pope of having an emeritus pope in his backyard and one that he had disagreements with while in Argentina.

I agree, Pope Benedict should have followed the example of Pope St. John Paul and remained in office and devised a way to govern as he has become more feeble. Maybe the Vatican and curia would be stepping in where they shouldn't be, but the Church as a whole would be more united now than it is under Pope Francis who has caused such division

ByzRC said...

Perhaps if the sheep weren't outnumbered by the wolves, none of this ever would have happened. While I feel the same as both you and Fr. Fox, I suspect some (if not much) fault should be assigned to those that pledged fidelity upon Benedict's election.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

I think too, that there was dissatisfaction in many cardinals with Pope Benedict's governing style, the issue in the curia, and that he was pleasing to too many traditionalists with his reform in continuity approach to the liturgy and allowing the EF Mass more freedom and directing that freedom to priests, not bishops.

I think many "Vatican II" bishops and cardinals were alarmed at the recovery of so much pre-Vatican II.

Thus Pope Francis fits that mold and is certainly a 1970's post-Vatican II type of person, almost mired there.

Brendan said...

What problems do you think Benedict's resignation caused?

TJM said...

Father McDonald, so Pope Francis is a sore loser's candidate - the clergy who are emotionally invested in Vatican Disaster II rather than the good of Holy Church and the Faithful!

Henry said...

TJM,

Few are they who have the character to admit that--no doubt, originally in good faith--they've wasted their lives in support of a cause that turned out to be a abject failure, an unfathomable disaster.

Fr Martin Fox said...

Brendan said...
What problems do you think Benedict's resignation caused?


The problem of wondering, even for a moment, who really is the pope.

TJM said...

Henry,

You are correct - they would rather double down on failure than admit error.

Anonymous said...

Why would one wonder who is really the pope?

Benedict resigned the office of Bishop of Rome and Francis took his place according to the norms and regulations of Holy Mother Church.

It's the quintessential no-brainer.

Now, if one is a conspiratorialist, the question might arise. But, then, so might the idea that the "real" Pope Paul VI was kidnapped and replaced by an actor. Claims one such nutty website, "In 1973, the Marian Press, Georgetown, Ontario, Canada sent the Pinkerton Detective Agency to Rome to investigate "substitutes" used to represent Paul VI. The evidence gathered at that time was positive.
The impostor Pope was first photographed December 11, 1974. He had an elementary education and due of the lack of proper education, was not adequately in a position to answer questions and issues with coherence."

So, ...

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

You must be living under a rock or a hermitage not to know all the conspiracy theories that many Catholic believe. This isn't good, that you don't know and that there are these theories.

Anonymous said...

There are many "theories." What is needed is evidence to show that the theories are more that the result of emotion or overactive imaginations.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

This is from 1Peter5 as a result of the Vatican admitting it manipulated a photo:

“Thirty five years,” wrote one breathless Catholic on Twitter, “of reading, analysing and writing about the works of Joseph Ratzinger provides more than enough experience to know he would never resort to such trite inchoate Bergoglian banalities inherent in that letter”. It was a sentiment echoed across social media.

Others speculated about Benedict being a “prisoner” of the Vatican, of the “evil underground of…inernationalists with money and power” responsible for a coup that brought Benedict out of power, and so on. The name of George Soros appeared at least once in my feeds in connection with the latest developments.

Essentially, every unproven theory people have had about why Benedict abdicated, who was behind it, and what he’s now being forced to do has come back to the surface with a vengeance — all in the wake of a simple, brief letter about some books that, as it turns out, the former pope doesn’t even have the time to read.

Fr Martin Fox said...

Anonymous:

You asked me to identify problems, and I have done so. That it isn't a problem for you does not mean it isn't a problem.

TJM said...

Fr. Fox,

You do realize you are in an exchange with Kavanaugh who NEVER responds directly to a comment but changes the subject or deflects.

ByzRC said...

Why are we engaging with this version of Anonymous? It will just go round and round and round in circles.

Anonymous said...

Well, I think some people often invent problems where none exist.

That is it a problem for you doesn't mean it IS a problem, actually.