So I suggest to all of you that these words from Pope Francis' morning homily were quite humorous when spoken and the Italians present for it were chuckling if not slapping their knees in uproarious laughing!
September 10, 2015 by
From CNS:
To be a true Christian means being forgiving, kind, humble, gentle, generous, merciful and very patient with one another, Pope Francis said in a morning homily.Priests must be especially merciful, he added, saying if that they weren’t, then they should ask their bishop for a desk job and “never walk into a confessional, I beg you.”“A priest who isn’t merciful does much damage in the confessional. He berates people,” the pope said Sept. 10 during the Mass in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae.However, if snapping at people is caused not by a lack of compassion, but by being high-strung, then “go to a doctor who will give you a pill for your nerves. Just be merciful,” he said.
The Pope urged all of us to show feelings of kindness, goodness and humility, saying this is the Christian style, rather than being arrogant or condemning or speaking badly about others. May the Lord, he concluded, give all of us the grace to provide support to others, to forgive and be merciful, just as our Lord is merciful towards us.
90 comments:
The only priests I've ever encountered "snapping" at people were the liberal progressive ones who spontaneously combusted over someone kneeing for communion, or another woman who chose to commune on her tongue rather than hold out her hand. Another time one ripped into another elderly woman for her pro-life activity.
In confession I've only had 2 weird encounters and both where with guys who didn't seem to believe in mortal sin as something "do-able" and their attitude was that of someone who had better things to do than listen to penitents' asking God for mercy.
The only people that get slapped down by the Pope are those who adhere to the tradition and teachings of the Church. Radical liberals get the seat of honor at the Synod. Jusadbellum is correct, the only snapping is those prelates who inflict vitriol at those who show the great adoration and reverence God deserves.
Victims everywhere....
It was once explained to me that wise politicians and cynical leaders only reprimand people who will sit still and "take it". You don't attempt to reprimand people whom you have every reason to think will not be docile enough to take a tongue lashing quietly.
I always thought this was a gutless thing to do - not to be an equal opportunity prophet, their feelings be damned. But as an adult I do recognize that there are times and places for a reprimand and sometimes one has to let passions cool before calling people onto the carpet.
But it still seems as though we have way too much High Dungeon Outrage against the least likely to be violent folk (cough) Kim Davis (cough) while meekly turning the other cheek when someone of consequence chooses to not do their job (Eric Holder, DOMA defense or Obama and Immigration law, or Mayors and Sanctuary cities).
See, a minor county clerk has failed to "do her job" so by Jove she needs to pay the penalty! But a Mayor, Governor, AG, or POTUS not doing their jobs? Meh, doesn't seem to be a big deal at all. Bizarro world.
Conservatives consider pastors and bishops to be fonts of authority so one can safely lay into them. Liberals are only tenuously Catholic but have the Media on speed dial, so one doesn't lay into them. Easy Peasey.
So Cardinals and Archbishops will decry Mr. Trump - a candidate - in terms they'd never use for sitting Senators, our Vice President, or other elected officials on account that it's "safe". Pearls and swine and all that.
I appreciate the gutless wonders but I still think it cowardly. If someone does something wrong, we ought to let them know it and why it's wrong. We can be nice about it, but still, they need to know. If they blow a gasket because "no one talks to me that way!!!" all the better! Someone needs to tell bullies what's good for them.
I don't think there's much to laugh about with the Muslims taking over the world, the secularists forcing us to accept their perversities, and the Catholic hierarchy trying to undo the very words of Christ.
We live in a country where people are taking seriously the idea of voting for Donald Trump for president. Are these the end times? If they aren't, then the pope ain't Catholic. Oh, wait...
Recognize the static state of affairs --> Create a problem in need of a solution --> Propose a solution that entails "progress"
In between being berated by priests in the confessional as a child, the pope clearly found time to study Hegelian/Marxist theory.
Lefebvrian, You are quite correct....with regard to Trump, he is a reflection of how fed up people are with professional politicians and the rank failure of a Republican Congress to deal with a lawless, racist, incompetent President. I was surprised when this Trump thing had legs, but it does and is becoming quite interesting. Cruz would be my choice, but I would vote for Trump if for no other reason than for the entertainment value. He would certainly be better than what we have now and may just surprise everyone. Besides, I would just love to see the libs cry, scream, and wet their pants with a Trump/Cruz ticket and maybe Palin as Sec of Interior...maybe Bolton for UN, Gowdy for Attorney General...hey, how about Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin for Press sec. Man wouldn't that be a howl. Then we would have the Pope for religious entertainment and the Trump admin. for political entertainment. This could be good.
"THANK GOD I AM NOT LIKE THESE PRIESTS POPE FRANCIS IS JUDGING! YES, THE POPE OF WHO AM I TO JUDGE WHO IN FACT JUDGES CONSTANTLY WHICH IS SO ITALIAN, TO DENY, PROJECT AND DO IT! BUT I DIGRESS."
I give up on making any sense of this mess...
- ed.
I beg Pope Francis' forgiveness if I have mischaracterized the following:
Pope Francis has often portrayed the Catholic Church as being filled with unmerciful priests and judgmental parishes who are obsessed with abortion, and artificial birth control, divorced and remarried Catholics, and homosexuals.
Father McDonald, is it your contention that His Holiness Pope Francis has merely employed humorous exaggeration Italian-style to make his points — said points being that priests (and all Catholics) must always remain merciful?
I am not very smart. Therefore, I may have misunderstood you.
I wonder about the following: There were powerful Jesuits who persecuted and exiled Father Bergoglio, the future Pope Francis. Has that experience fueled Pope Francis' perception of a Catholic Church that has often been unmerciful and judgmental?
I am aware that the above doesn't explain everything in that regard as Pope Francis has insisted that the unmerciful and judgmental clergy, religious, and laymen have populated the Church always and everywhere.
But perhaps the persecution and exile that Father Bergoglio had experienced decades ago has colored Pope Francis' portrait of the Church.
Finally, it has been my experience that the greatest lack of mercy within the Church exists among Churchmen laymen in power who despise and mistreat Catholics attached to the Traditional Latin Mass and Holy Tradition.
I have not encountered a Church filled with priests and laymen who are obsessed with abortion, artificial birth control and the mistreatment of divorced and remarried Catholics, and homosexuals.
I have encountered far more Churchmen and laymen who have directed vitriol at, for example, the SSPX, then at divorced and remarried Catholics, and homosexuals.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I'm starting a "movement" (maybe a "BM") to rename this site "Southern Whiners". Knowing how popular I am here, I'm sure many will rally behind me. (Not too close behind though....it is, after all, a "movement".)
I'll get positive if y'all will....I love Pope Francis. I hate abortion. I love Latin Masses. I love English Masses (ANY language Masses). I love Communion on the tongue, in the hand, kneeling, standing....join me...help me out. Help us ALL out.
The Pope has tapped Rick Warren...that's right, Rick Warren...to speak at Philadelphia with the Pope. So, a crazy protestant evangelical is going to help sell the Pope's socialist agenda. God help us!
Um...The Holy Father is not 'judging', as you continually judge Him for judging--he is literally giving directions to his employees. Quite a difference, don't you think?
In my nearly 50 years of having gone to Confession, I have had one terrible experience with a priest.
Actually, I approached him outside the church (building) to confess a sin. It was during the week and outside the time of regular Confession. He acted as if I had intruded on his time. He was dressed in civilian clothes and seemed to be "off duty" or ready for lunch.
Perhaps I was at fault.
Anyway, that remains my only unfavorable experience with a priest in regard to Confession.
During Confession, I have always encountered merciful priests. Be they so-called "liberals," "modernists," "conservatives,"...they have always dispensed mercy to me.
If anything, based upon certain sins that I have confessed, I have wondered whether priests, in a sense, are too kind and merciful during Confession.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
My jury is still out on this Pope. I think he is trying, with some success, to attract all sinners to the Church. I don't think he expects them all, or even most, to convert or even repent, but to understand the Church loves them and wants them to find mercy and love if they will repent. But They won't even make the effort of inquiring if they feel they are going to be judged. If they will at least investigate they may, Ironically, discover that the contrite person asks for judgement, even offers it on himself, and knows to ask, with regret, forgiveness knowing they deserve nothing of the sort. It would be far more convenient for me personally if the sinners and inquirers who can't quite bring themselves to appreciate the Mass as I do would attend the 0800 Low Mass and kneel quietly for an hour then exit quickly before I arrive for confession. They can hustle to the basement for a donut and coffee. However, it seems that they are attracted to attend the same Mass as I do, swiveling around in the pew to look at the choir and want to engage me in conversation while I have my after Mass coffee and kefir. They will then ask annoying questions about the Pope, Mary, any number of saints, why masterbation is a sin, etc. if I treat them like I wanted to and they left me in peace, I would have the priest badgering me about my attitude and I suppose there will be seemingly endless questions in Purgatory, if I get the far. So the quickest way through this swamp is straight ahead and help these miserable sinners get some good reading material and interview with the priest. I suppose they may want to talk more so it will help if they are more educated.
I don't know about others, but I often find it difficult to understand what the Holy Father means by "mercy". Aquinas' view in which justice is founded on truth does not seems to help either: (S.Th.II,2, q.30, a.3, resp)
I answer that, Mercy signifies grief for another's distress. Now this grief may denote, in one way, a movement of the sensitive appetite, in which case mercy is not a virtue but a passion; whereas, in another way, it may denote a movement of the intellective appetite, in as much as one person's evil is displeasing to another. This movement may be ruled in accordance with reason, and in accordance with this movement regulated by reason, the movement of the lower appetite may be regulated. Hence Augustine says (De Civ. Dei ix, 5) that "this movement of the mind" (viz. mercy) "obeys the reason, when mercy is vouchsafed in such a way that justice is safeguarded, whether we give to the needy or forgive the repentant." And since it is essential to human virtue that the movements of the soul should be regulated by reason, as was shown above (I-II, 59, A4,5), it follows that mercy is a virtue.
Mark, it matters little what the priest says in the confessional. The important matter is what Christ does.
The HF's attempt at hyperbole, and sarcasm isn't quite working...I've always encountered His mercy in the confessional regardless of the priest. Where is this "judgemental church?" I've never seen such a thing before.
What if the Priest sings "Camp Town Races" in the Confessional or recites from the Koran?
cmummerboi-- Priests are not employees of the Vatican.
We have to remember that Pope Francis was never a simple parish priest, and so his familiarity with such priests is largely limited to books on the subject, and complaints he would have received about parish priests under his control. If your primary experience of post-Vatican II parish life comes from books and complaints, you could understandably develop an imaginary perspective on the priests who serve there.
Anonymous,
It's true that some of the posts that are here which are always in English by the way are not what some would say if we asked them but we don't are understandable or not but who are we to judge thank you.
The only priests I have come across who have been uncharitable are, as others have mentioned, those priests who have a dislike of communion on the tongue, kneeling for communion and the Latin Mass. I haven't had any bad experience in confession and have found the vast majority of priests to have been very helpful and non-judgmental in confession. Most Catholics I know are very grateful for the priesthood and for the priests we have.
The vast majority of priests are unstinting in their service to the Church and give of themselves selflessly, on call 24 hours a day and going out to the hospital, etc, at all hours of the night. I have worked as a parish secretary and can attest that the priest I worked for was often telephoned to attend the hospital for anointing and last rites. Even in the middle of his breakfast he would put down the piece of toast he was eating and leave immediately. If it were me I am sure I would have at least finished the piece of toast. So I think that shows the self-discipline that a lot of the priests have. Unfortunately, we very rarely hear of the good work our priests do.
I think Pope Francis needs to be more encouraging to priests. The attitude he has displayed towards priests since his election I find unacceptable. His attitude would not be acceptable in business world, as it would be seen as demoralising and he would be long gone from any administrative position by now. Certainly nothing he says would encouage a young man to consider the priesthood. What he says I think must be very demoralising for priests generally, and I think he needs to take a page out of his own book and have a long look in the mirror. He may not like what he sees.
Jan
Laughing indeed, while Christian Europe is being invaded by Muslims on mass, and by the way this is an invasion, males constitute about 85% of the migrants that are pouring into Europe this is on purpose. Islam is on the march across the world and Europe will cease to exist as we know it in three decades or less. I for one cannot grasp what compels the Germans that they will let in 950,000 Muslims, do they know what they have just done to Germany? Are the Germans and Europeans losing the will to even live or continue on as a people? One must understand the Muslim invaders can and never will assimilate into European society, they cannot, they will never drink alcohol, never eat pork products, attend nightclubs, museums, swimming pools, gay pride parades, raves, animal rights events, women's rights events, rock concerts, rap concerts, does anybody get what I'm trying to get at??? Islam is a way of life Mosque and state go hand and hand they want to convert or kill us. Please take a look at the website of Robert Spencer called Jihad Watch, and the bravest woman in America Pamela Geller whose site is called Atlas Shrugs, they tell you exactly what ISLAM has in-store for us, you will not hear or read this from the mainstream Left Wing media.
All here should read what the Hungarian Roman Catholic bishop of Szeged-Csanad, his name is Bishop Laszlo Kiss Rigo, he just stated to the Washington Post newspaper and I quote: His Holiness is wrong about the Muslims coming into Europe, they arrive chanting Allahu Akbar!! He stated to the pope they want to take over, if you know your history you will understand why the Hungarian are in a total panic, they stopped them at the gate of Vienna in 1683 and stopped the advance of the Islamic Ottoman Turks, this was called the Battle of Vienna. Now my friends the Europeans have opened their "gates" to the invading Muslims and have given Europe over to Islam. How ironic is it that the Europeans in 1683 fought and died to save Christian Europe now fall like dead flies. One lone voice in Europe may Our Lady protect Bishop Laszlo Kiss Rigo, for Europe is dead and will never rise again, the Islamic call to prayer rings out over Europe and the church bells fall silent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anonymous wrote: “Please take a look at the website of Robert Spencer called Jihad Watch, and the bravest woman in America Pamela Geller whose site is called Atlas Shrugs, they tell you exactly what ISLAM has in-store for us, you will not hear or read this from the mainstream Left Wing media.”
Here are two Wikipedia articles on Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller. I refrain from comment. Please read these articles and then make up your own mind about Spencer, Geller, and their websites:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Spencer_%28author%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Geller
Oh, and once again, lest we forget: We in the West and the inhabitants of the Middle East (and elsewhere) continue to reap the whirlwind whipped up by our incompetent, reckless meddling. Now, who let the genie out of the bottle again?
I totally agree with Anonymous at 11.46 and 12.02 and I think Britain will rue the day that they built the Eurotunnel, which has now made them so vulnerable. Britain has also gone. Many areas now have Sharia law. We have brought this upon ourselves with a contraception mentality and a general turning away from God.
Pope Francis may be in denial but it will be too late when the Moslems arrive at the Vatican gates - which they have sworn to do - to lay waste to Rome.
However, I do believe that the Moslems will meet a lot more resistance than they bargain for and they wiil eventually be overcome, but there will be massive blood shed before that day comes. That would not have needed to be had people been more vigilant with what is happening in the world. Instead for too long people have had their heads buried in their mobile phones and other gadgets and have concentrated on wealth accumulation to the detriment of everything else. We are all going to have to learn the tough lesson of what happens to man when he thinks he can go it alone without God.
Jan
And this Pope said this week, ALL CATHOLIC CHURCHES,CONVENTS, AND CHURCH PROPERTIES should house these Muslim invaders. This Pope has just sealed the fate of Christian Europe, I for the life of me cannot take Bergoglio another day, the Roman Curia must oust this man now!!!! Shame on you Father for shielding this man for so long.
The Western world has lost its resolve...history does repeat...Rome fell essentially because no one had the will to fight. God help us.
OnePeterFive has commented too that this is not a refugee situation but a hijra:
"http://www.onepeterfive.com/the-final-hijra-a-warning-on-t…/
The American and Western European governments are saying this is a “refugee crisis,” and the news media, like good propagandists, run images of a few poor women and children, while neglecting to show us the rest of the situation. Not displayed is the mass of overwhelmingly young, healthy, well-dressed males, carrying the latest smart phones. Far from the starving widows and orphans one might imagine upon hearing the word, “refugee,” these men have come to riot, rampage, and destroy.
Lest anyone allow themselves to be deceived, this is not a normal migration – it is a hijra."
Jan
Jan,
Remember Enoch Powell? Almost fifty years ago, he said, "As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see 'the River Tiber foaming with much blood'."
But perhaps now is the time to convert the Infidels, rather than oppose them.
Yes, convert them to fertilizer...
Anon2
I don't know what to make of your comment below:
"We in the West and the inhabitants of the Middle East (and elsewhere) continue to reap the whirlwind whipped up by our incompetent, reckless meddling. Now, who let the genie out of the bottle again?"
Your comment presents a good opportunity to bring up something else though.
Whenever anyone brings up the Crusades, I will remind them that the Islamists had overtaken and occupied all of North Africa from Egypt to the Atlantic, and along with that, the Iberian peninsula, and all that for a period of around 300 years before the first Crusade was even formed and started on its way to liberate the Holy Land. It would be another 400 years before they were driven completely from Spain. During that time the Muslims had also managed to occupy the entire island of Sicily. In addition, they also made forays into mainland Italy where among other unholy acts, they destroyed monasteries and churches. Little toleration for opposing religions is another thing we can notice historically about the adherents of the Muslim faith. It is true that vestiges of Catholicism had managed to survive for a period of time during the of the Muslim rule over North Africa, at least until the more fundamentalists of that faith began tio assert their power and influence.When the French invaded and eventually captured Algeria in the mid 1800's, no adherents of the once extant Catholicism were in evidence.
We know from the historical record that by the 14th Century, that in North Africa, wereas before the Muslim conquest there were 400 bishoprics, only four remained.
It has been conjectured that the strong monastic tradition in Egypt enabled the Coptics the persevere and survive there. One can only wonder what Europe would
be like today if the Islamists had not been defeated at Vienna and Lepanto.
Before I submitted my comment at 11:02 p.m. yesterday evening, I submitted another comment that apparently did not make it through the cyber-gauntlet or past the cyber-gremlins. So here it is again:
Anonymous at 11:46 a.m. wrote: “Please take a look at the website of Robert Spencer called Jihad Watch, and the bravest woman in America Pamela Geller whose site is called Atlas Shrugs, they tell you exactly what ISLAM has in-store for us, you will not hear or read this from the mainstream Left Wing media.”
Here are two Wikipedia articles on Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller. I refrain from comment. Please read these articles and then make up your own mind about Spencer, Geller, and their websites:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Spencer_%28author%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Geller
As for the situation with the refugees. It should be done with discernment and discretion. Certainly we should not allow those that are of the Wahabi school (and the derivatives there of) into our parishes. (How that could be checked since there is such a thing as Taqquia in Islam...might be a bit difficult)....Only those that truly need the help should be taken in (aka fellow Catholics, Orthodox, and protestants)....Also on a practical level, housing refugees costs money, some parishes (like mine) can't afford this. Certainly each has a human dignity, and shouldn't be limited to money, but housing people does require usage of extra resources.
Europe will indeed run with blood as will the Tiber, I firmly believe the Europeans will be pushed up against the wall and finally wake up to the fact that ISLAM is here to conquer them and convert them to this violent and hateful sect!! This is indeed a "hijra" my friends and it has only just begun. The Pope has no idea what he has done or does he??????????????
George:
Regarding my comment, everything has consequences. A bull in a china shop is generally unaware of them.
Regarding the Crusades, the Crusades cannot be reduced to one sentence or even one paragraph. The devil, as they say, is in the details. Read about them and you will soon find him:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
P.S. I like Wikipedia articles for many, non-scholarly purposes by the way because they address many different, and frequently conflicting perspectives and do not give just one side of an issue.
Dialogue:
Yes, I do remember Enoch Powell quite well and indeed have mentioned him before on this Blog, inviting readers to check him out “for added perspective.” Here is the full text of his speech:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html
He was not singling out Muslims by the way. People may forget but there was a time when Muslim immigration to Britain was not seen as a separate and particularly serious problem. Indeed, even today, despite the radicalization of various elements among British Muslims, the state of relations between British Muslims and British Jews is quite good. This is according to former Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks when speaking in an interview aired on NPR a couple of days ago. The former Chief Rabbi emphasizes that this is because these two communities have put in the effort to maintain good relations. Their goal has been to export this mutual acceptance to the Middle East rather than to import mutual intolerance from the Middle East. Unfortunately I cannot find a link (perhaps someone else will have more success and can post it), but I have just found this on Rabbi Sacks’ website promoting his latest book “Not in God’s Name: Confronting Religious Violence,” published earlier this summer.
http://www.rabbisacks.org/not-in-gods-name/
Here is a link to the book on Amazon (with the typical “look inside”):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Not-Gods-Name-Confronting-Religious/dp/1473616514
I will be getting this book.
Geller and Spenser are intelligent people who are very aware of the intentions and dangers of Islam. They are screaming as loud as they can to wake people up, while others like Anon 2 continue to defend and promote Islam as a harmless, cuddly religion. People like Anon 2 will never stop defending Islam and terrorism until the ISIS knife slices through their vocal chords, finally silencing them and proving that at least some good can come from evil.
Speaking of which, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!! Iran has suddenly discovered an unusually high quality uranium reserve (after pre-deal reports that the nation was low on uranium and what they had was low quality) just a few days after Obama and the demopcraps' wonderful nuclear deal. Can you say "morons?"
Calvin of Hippogene:
You continue to slander and vilify anyone who dares to question your distorted and extreme view of the world. You write “while others like Anon 2 continue to defend and promote Islam as a harmless, cuddly religion. People like Anon 2 will never stop defending Islam and terrorism until the ISIS knife slices through their vocal chords.”
Please show us where I have ever said that Islam is “harmless” and “cuddly” or where I have defended terrorism. You DARE to suggest this after everything I have written about the evils perpetrated by the IRA (supported by many in the Irish-American community by the way). Shame on you!
This one from this afternoon did not seem to make it through either, so here it is again as well:
Dialogue:
Yes, I do remember Enoch Powell quite well and indeed have mentioned him before on this Blog, inviting readers to check him out “for added perspective.” Here is the full text of his speech:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html
He was not singling out Muslims by the way. People may forget but there was a time when Muslim immigration to Britain was not seen as a separate and particularly serious problem. Indeed, even today, despite the radicalization of various elements among British Muslims, the state of relations between British Muslims and British Jews is quite good. This is according to former Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks when speaking in an interview aired on NPR a couple of days ago. The former Chief Rabbi emphasizes that this is because these two communities have put in the effort to maintain good relations. Their goal has been to export this mutual acceptance to the Middle East rather than to import mutual intolerance from the Middle East. Unfortunately I cannot find a link (perhaps someone else will have more success and can post it), but I have just found this on Rabbi Sacks’ website promoting his latest book “Not in God’s Name: Confronting Religious Violence,” published earlier this summer.
http://www.rabbisacks.org/not-in-gods-name/
Here is a link to the book on Amazon (with the typical “look inside”):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Not-Gods-Name-Confronting-Religious/dp/1473616514
I will be getting this book.
Anon 2, we are not talking about the IRA, a far less treacherous and demonic, although terroristic, group than Islam. There is nothing slanderous or vilifying in what I said...it is merely an observation (with some hyperbole). You have constantly defended Islam and your Muslim "friends" on this blog, as well as your homosexual "friends." I cannot help it if you, yourself, give the impression of being, in one of the recent news pundit's words, "a...little beta male who checks his cojones at the door." We do not need that in this age.
Oh, and speaking of your academic buddies, I see where Yale, that bastion of socialist, radical anti-American teaching, has hired that punk leader of Black Lives Matter to teach a course there. Aren't you proud? BTW, I bought a bumper sticker today that says, "Black Labs Matter."
Calvin of Hippogene:
When are you going to grow up and come in off the playground to have an adult conversation?
As to the IRA, you don’t know what you are talking about. You were not living in Britain during the relevant period. I was.
As for religion being “warm” and “cuddly,” we humans are fallen, broken, divided, and often twisted and capable of great evil even though we can also be warm and cuddly and capable of great good when we get out of the way and let God work within us. But when we get our grubby little hands on religion, especially monotheistic religion including Christianity (and anyone who thinks Christianity is exempt knows little of history or human nature), as opposed to letting God be in charge of it, we can really mess it up and God weeps. In fact, He weeps so much that He had to come and sacrifice Himself to save us from ourselves.
Fr. McD....what kind of penance did Gene have to perform in order to be readmitted to this illustrious group?
Anon2
You missed my point.
Here is something from the link you provided:
"Historian Thomas Madden has made the contrary argument that "[t]he crusade, first and foremost, was a war against Muslims for the defense of the Christian faith.... They began as a result of a Muslim conquest of Christian territories." Madden says the goal of Pope Urban was that "[t]he Christians of the East must be free from the brutal and humiliating conditions of Muslim rule."
My comment:
Whatever barbaric acts some of the Crusaders perpetrated in their campaigns cannot be laid at the foot of the Pope or the Church as some both in and out of academia are wont to do. If Christians had been given unfettered access to the Holy Land, and had the Muslims (or Saracens if you want) not conquered and subjugated large Christian areas of that part of world, the Crusades in all likelihood would never have been undertaken.
September 12th -the Feast of the Holy Name of Mary
The feast of the Most Holy Name of Mary began in Spain in 1513 and in 1671 was extended to all of Spain and the Kingdom of Naples. In 1683, John Sobieski, king of Poland, brought an army to the outskirts of Vienna to stop the advance of Muslim armies loyal to Mohammed IV in Constantinople. After Sobieski entrusted himself to the Blessed Virgin Mary, he and his soldiers thoroughly defeated the Muslims. Pope Innocent XI extended this feast to the entire Church
Who is Gene?
Calvin must be channeling this Gene.
George:
I am sorry if I missed your point but, as you said of one of my comments on this thread, I am unsure what to make of it, as you mention certain isolated statistics without context and without citation.
Also, please don’t miss my fundamental point about human nature and the misuse of religion by humans as discussed in my previous comment. I have no idea what the Byzantine Christians and the Latin Christians would have done to one another in the absence of Muslim conquests. We do know what the Latin Christians did to themselves in the name of God during the broader “internal crusades” within Christendom and then the Wars of Religion following the Reformation. And it wasn’t pretty. And we do know what the Christian West did to itself following the rise of the era of nationalism. And that wasn’t pretty either.
Calvin:
“Who is Gene?”
Check out the Monty Python sketch “How Not to Be Seen.” Your problem is the same problem as Mr. Nesbitt of Harlow-Newtown (at 58 seconds).
Or, let me put it this way: What do the following have in common theologically as well as nominatively: Jolly Jansenist, Angry Augustinian, Calvin of Hippo?
Anon2
My point had to do with the Crusades and how that is too often brought up (along with the Inquisition ) by those who attack the Church. If the Crusades had not been seen as necessary, then I don't see that they would have been undertaken. The problem was not that of the Byzantines preventing Catholics from Europe access to the Holy Land of course. The schism between the East and Rome occurred forty years before the first Crusade. The two groups were not on good terms by that time and so what transpired by the Fourth Crusade was not surprising, although of course unjustified. The Byzantine Empire caught it from both side as it had already been defeated by the Turks in 1071. I think that all too often, those who attack the Church and what was done in the past, omit or discount what was done by the Muslims that led up to certain actions and events occurring.In our own time we see in the last century how much death was wrought by Neo-Pagans(Nazi-ism and Fascism),the Communists(atheists) and the Emperor worshippers in Japan and that the resulting death and destruction dwarfs whatever happened under the auspices of the Church.
One must look up what the late Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi once said about Islam and this is what he said, Islam will not come to Europe by the sword or conquest, but it will come as massive waves across the Mediterranean Sea, spreading like a vast blanket from North Africa and the Middle East, the call to prayer will replace the bells of churches and the crosses will be torn down and replaced by the crescent of Islam. Saudi Arabia has already pledged to build 200 mosques for every "migrant" who arrives in Europe. Look again at these so called "migrants" over 85% are young men, well dressed, smart phones in hand, beards, and looking very healthy and fit. This is indeed an ARMY of conquest, and the flood gates are wide open, yet Pope Francis tells Europe's Catholics to open its doors to the invaders! Is this man in his right mind, I must ask this question and it is a legitimate one, not an vitriolic question, it must be asked! So please for the sake of Catholicism and for that matter Europe, this invasion must be stopped.
Where are the feminists, musicians, liberals, actors and actresses, homosexuals, liberal Jews, atheists, animal rights groups and all of the "diversity" screamers? These aforementioned groups would be the first to be beheaded by Sharia law, you see Islam does not TOLERATE any of those groups, yet there is SILENCE from them. Gay men are thrown from rooftops in Syria then beaten to death, females are raped, sold into slavery, all music is banned, no movies are allowed, animals are butchered by slicing their throats while still alive according to "halal" law, Jews are sought out and killed if found, does Hollywood say anything? No they are safe in their homes in Beverly Hills, Malibu, Park Avenue, the reason? FEAR, they know they would be dead should they even utter a peep about what Islam is doing throughout the world. Oh yes, the brave Hollywood elites and their allies, how utterly disgusting and cowards they are!!!
As always, Robert Spencer and his website "Jihad Watch" are on top of the daily attacks from the "religion of peace" along with Pamela Geller who must have a 24 guard with her at all times. Remember the saying that Obama and others continue to preach, be-headings, decapitations, bombs going off, of course have nothing to do with Islam, yet the Jihadists themselves say tell us it has everything to do with Islam and please read the Quran it tells you exactly what they have in-store for us.
Now, Anonymous, you know that if we are just patient and continue, like Anon 2, to speak kindly of Muslims and keep insisting on a "world without borders" and speak kindly of homosexuals and other abnormal groups that everything will be ok and none of these fine Islamists and weirdos will want to hurt us because they will see the love in our hearts and become sentimental and renounce their evil ways. It is true...just ask Anon 2, Kavanaugh, and Obama. Ain't it great? Even the Pope thinks so.
Anonymous,
While I'm glad he's no longer a threat to anyone, I do miss the antics of Gaddafi, and wish he could have lived to host a comedy show.
Anonymous and Calvin:
As I have tried to get you to understand, we have sown the wind and now we reap the whirlwind. To recognize this is the beginning of wisdom about what to do (assuming it is not too late). To paraphrase Hillel, “all the rest is commentary; now go and study.” People like Spencer and Geller are just pouring fuel on the fire and fanning the flames. And who lit the match and threw it onto the dry tinder? Do I have to spell it out for you?
Ah I see once again it is our fault that Muslims KILL, BLOW UP BUILDINGS, CUT OFF HEADS, DESTROY 4,000 YEAR OLD TEMPLES, MUTILATE FEMALE GENITAL ORGANS, ENSLAVE YAZZIDI PEOPLE, TREAT WOMEN LIKE DOGS, WELL THE LIST CAN GO ON AND ON. Islam is NOT a religion it is a Socio-Political way of life, it hates and it kills if you do not submit and the word Islam means to SUBMIT!!! Therefore it cannot and will not ever assimilate into Western Civilization!!! Germany, Holland, England, Austria, France, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, will find this out when these countries wake up one day and hear not church bells but the call from the mineret!!! Good bye Europe
Anonymous:
I understand the emotion in your post and I share it. But are you suggesting we bear no responsibility at all; that it is entirely the fault of Muslim peoples that these radical jihadists have arisen and that as many as 95% of their victims may be fellow Muslims rather than Westerners (see http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30883058)? I assume you are not ignorant of history, especially since the early twentieth century, so you cannot possibly be suggesting this. If this is not what you are suggesting, then, just how much responsibility do you think we bear? And let us never forget Jesus’s words in Matthew 7:3-5:
“3. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?
4. How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye?
5. You hypocrite, - remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.”
I have always understood these verses to mean not necessarily that Jesus is suggesting those He is addressing have greater sins than others do but that a splinter in my own eye looks so large that it distorts my vision and prevents me from seeing clearly.
Let me ask you one very simple question (to focus on proximate rather than more ultimate causes such as World War I and Sykes-Picot): Do you honestly think this would be happening if the United States had not invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam Hussein?
By the way, Anonymous, your characterization of Islam and apparent identification of the entire religion with its most radical manifestations betray your lack of knowledge about that religion and the dangers of getting your information from websites that feed people’s confirmation bias. Your distorted view begins with your fundamental misunderstanding of the meaning of the word Islam, i.e., submission or surrender. As a good Catholic, I assume you would also promote submission or surrender to the Will of God or am I wrong about that?
Anonymous:
Here is one very visible sign of nuance and complexity: I have had Muslim female students who wear the hijab and some who have worn no head covering at all. All are complying with Islamic norms. Yet there are Muslim females in some countries who wear the full length burqa. They too are complying with Islamic norms. Explain this diversity and you may begin to understand.
Fuel needs to be poured on this fire and the flames need to be fanned, preferably by the wings of US bomber aircraft flying over them. You do realize that, when fanatical governments like those in Muslim nations take over, you academics are the first ones they come for. Why? Because they understand that you will never shut your mouths.
Anon Anonymous 2 is going to have to make a choice at some stage between his homosexual friends and his Muslim friends because he will find he can't have both. The sight of these so-called refugees insulting police in Hungary and throwing water and food away that was offered them, shows these are not refugees. Hardly a woman or a child among them. They are as is being reported, fit young men and arrogant with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e6sIl5whsg
More "refugees" refusing food from the Red Cross because it has a cross on it and giving the ISIS one finger salute. As some are already stating, this is an invasion of Europe by Islamists. Again mostly young men. Where are the women, children and old people that one normally sees among refugees. Also the arrogance displayed by these "refugees" is not what one normally associates with tired and hungry refugees.
It is even reported by the UN now that 75% of these "refugees" are young men. Goodbye Europe ... Barak Hussein Obama has invited at least 10,000 in - so good luck with the New York Islamic parade next year. Anon 2 may find he has to choose between his friends sooner rather than later because there is no such thing as a homosexual Islamist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2KhIZ8y0Mg
Jan
Jan:
I have watched the videos you linked. These video bites are like sound bites. There is absolutely no context to help us understand what events led up to these moments. The videos are terribly misleading. For example, the byline on the second video “Refugees Refusing Aid Because It Has a Red Cross On It” is a lie. It has been even debunked by the person who shot the video. Here is a detailed account explaining what is really happening and why, including verification from the Red Cross, and emphasizing that the Red Cross is distributing food and drink to thousands of people each day, all of which has been gratefully accepted.
http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/
I do not yet have the full story about the first video but I believe it has something to do with the refugees feeling they were tricked into thinking they were going to a particular destination but then the train was stopped and moves were made to cart them all off to a special camp. I need to investigate this further, however.
People who propagate these sorts of video lies on the internet should be ashamed of themselves. They dupe well-meaning and worried people (such as I assume you are). What these people do is evil and I implore you, please do not allow yourself to be manipulated by these mendacious elements or we may find that we have all been manipulated into Hell. Please make the effort to get the facts before you leap to judgment. This is the lawyer in me talking as well as (I hope) the Christian.
I guess Anon2's ideal best friend would be a homosexual Muslim female communist radical.
Strange that Obama is not taking in the Chaldean Catholics, Assyrian Christians, Orthodox Chrisitans, and the Yazzidis, this is a calculated plan to flood Europe with Muslims and now Obama wants to take in 20,000 Syrian Muslims, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! Look at the Twin Cities of Minneapolis - St. Paul, over 30,000 Somali Muslims now call those cities home, and Liberals in Minnesota are now scratching thier heads wondering why so many are going back to Somalia and joining the Islamic terror group Al-Shabaab! Look at the videos of that city, Somalis all over in flowing robes, hijabs on women, this is what you want America to become??? They demand special rights wherever they go and get it, prayer rooms in airports, feet washing rooms in public places, refusing to pick up women or people with dogs at the airport, what has happend to America are we that weak and stupid to let these people dictate what they want? I for one have had enough of this and will continue to speak up against the Islamic invasion and Sharia Law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People like Anon 2 remind me of these fools that are trying to take selfies of themselves with bears, rattlesnakes, and sharks. Hey, more power to 'em...natural selection.
Calvin of Hippogene:
Is that the best you’ve got when confronted with the truth? Your characteristic resort to playground taunts demonstrates that you have nothing of substance to say when faced with inconvenient facts such as the fabrications surrounding the videos Jan linked.
Anonymous:
Speaking of inconvenient facts, I very much hope you will, for consistency’s sake, extend your condemnation of the Administration’s alleged failure to help Christians and other religious minorities in Iraq to the Bush Administration. Here again is a repeat of some of my earlier posts on this topic:
I will also share one inconvenient fact: Iraqi Christians were already being attacked and persecuted before Obama became President. According to the UNHCR, as of June 2007 2.2 million Iraqis had been displaced to other countries. The vast majority were Christians. Other sources suggest about 1.4 million Christians lived in Iraq before the invasion. So, do the math.
If people now condemn Obama for allowing all this misery to be inflicted on the Iraqi Christians, are they also prepared to blame Bush equally (or perhaps even more since more appear to have been affected). After the invasion Islamic extremists (who were of course unleashed by the invasion) attacked, tortured, abducted, and killed (and yes, beheaded and mutilated) Iraqi Christians and forced Christian women to wear Islamic dress. I rather imagine that is why most of them fled to other countries. But where was the outrage then? Indeed, where is the outrage about that now? Hearing none I ask: Is the difference that Bush was not, well, how should I put it, Obama?
When people stop playing politics with this mess and start facing facts and behaving like adults, we might, just might, be able to make some progress. When FOX News and the right wing blogosphere starts talking about the travesty perpetrated upon Christians under Bush – and the Bush Administration’s denial that there was a problem in response to a 2007 inquiry by a certain Senator from Illinois – it might help to restore my faith and hope in our corrupt politics. If they have indeed already done this, please tell me.
And here is another interesting factoid: Tariq Aziz, Hussein’s foreign minister, was Roman Catholic. That in itself tells you that Iraqi Christians qua Christians were MUCH better off under Hussein than after “regime change” (which they were). Oooops!
Anon 2, Hitler was Catholic.
Well, anon aqnonymous 2 I would like to see your explanation for things happening here:
"Recently in France, leftists decided to hand out food to the suffering immigrants. Illegals quickly took over the distribution of the food and stormed the van, trying to get in and grab all they could.
Afterwards the woman visited a camp and the illegal immigrants were complaining to her that “the food is not good.” The ungrateful illegals then took the food and threw it on the ground."
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/must-see-video-muslim-immigrants-complain-and-dump-food-prepared-by-french-leftists-reject-water-marked-red-cross/
The women in that video are terrified as the van door is pulled open and everything stripped out - explain that one if you will. I'm sure you're bound to come up with something - WHO IS being duped here?? The answer is you, anon 2.
I'm afraid these incidents are being reported all over - Patrick Madrid reports that there had been a riot that had broken out in an Italian town because the African refugees had to eat another Italian meal. Vehicles were vandalized and the police were called out. They were demanding food from their homeland.
Anon 2 I would be interested too to see how you can explain this video away - this interview - a flash mob gather around an American journalist and throw glass bottles etc and intimidate him and his cameraman. He had been interviewing two women residents who say they cannot go out at night in this area because of the Muslims. They speak of the grooming that is going on by Muslim gangs of young women. Students being attacked and robbed. This is in Burnley England. You cannot leave school if you're white by yourself because they are attacked and thrown into the canal and the cops do nothing about it. As the interviewer says this is England and the British can't stand on their own streets - that he said is the real story. Many incidents like this are happening every day he said and the BBC and Sky etc are there and film it but they don't screen it.
Explain that away Anon 2 if you can. I think it will be nigh on impossible for you to do so because there are now way too many videos on YouTube showing women being attacked in France, just walking down the sidewalk. Explain that away. This is coming to a city near you and God help them in Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxefcCwgKNU
Jan
Jan
Anon. Jan:
Thank you for providing these additional links. They are clearly bogus, just like the one I discussed yesterday. They provide even further evidence that you are being manipulated by mendacious fabricators. I will explain later this evening in another post but right now I have to get on with my work (Notice I said “explain” not “explain away.” This is an important distinction).
Please understand: I do not doubt for one minute that there are serious problems created by Muslim immigration into European nations. But I am committed to the truth about these matters not deceit and trickery. And, if you will accept some advice, it does your credibility and your argument no good at all to continue to propagate this nonsense. There should be a big warning sign on every gateway into the internet: “Beware all ye who enter” or “Enter here at your own peril.” In sum, what the people originating these videos and spreading these lies are doing is, in my view, disgusting and shameful.
Anon Anonymous 2, a novel answer: They are clearly bogus. Obviously you haven't looked at the videos because they are clearly not bogus - particularly the French one which is quite lengthy and shows the preparation of food, it being delivered in a van, the frightened looks of the women when the van door is pulled open and the food parcels dragged out.
The street corner interview is obviously not bogus either. You claim to be British - well, even you can see and hear what the women have to say about how they fear going out on the street and fear for their daughters. Being British I am sure you are aware of the serious problems in Rotherham with Muslim gangs sexually grooming young women and how the West Midlands Police covered up a report:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3138984/Police-withheld-bombshell-report-revealing-gangs-Muslim-men-grooming-100-schoolgirls-young-10-case-inflamed-racial-tensions-ahead-General-Election.html
This problem does exist and you are hiding your head in the sand. It is a problem coming soon to a street near you and to all of us. I can report that in my own city people are moving from the suburb where the local mosque is and where majority of muslims live, simply because of the huge increase in crime since the mosque was established. Sad but true.
Jan
Aony 2, here is a video on the attacks that are going on against the French by Muslims in France. This is coming to a street near you soon.
One in five French have been victims of racist incidents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDJyhf1VQL4
Anon. Jan:
Regarding the first video you linked (from summer 2014), the commentary on the video makes it very clear that this lady and her colleagues prepare hot meals for thousands of migrants each day and that these migrants are very appreciative of this help. Now, regarding the migrants “storming” the van, the video makes it clear that, as the lady says herself, they were starving, not having eaten anything for many days. I do not see any indication that they threatened her in any way; they were, however, desperately hungry. Regarding the incident in the camp (which she had never visited before), yes, it is true -- a handful of migrants did refuse the cans and one even poured the contents out. The ravioli was three months past the expiry date and the video says that they were afraid of being poisoned. Well, to be honest, I would not want to eat canned ravioli three months past the sell by date either for fear of being made sick. But I am probably too cautious just as this handful of migrants also appears to be. The lady is understandably upset because, in her view, the canned ravioli was good for another three years. I take her at her word, although I don’t know what the basis for saying this is. Would_you_eat canned meat three years past the date? Anyway, she is annoyed but says she understands and laments the “consumer society.” More importantly, almost all of the migrants at the camp did in fact gratefully take the three month past due ravioli. So, despite the dramatic ominous music added to the commentary for effect (who is narrating by the way?), what is the story here?
Regarding the second video (from 2013), this is so obviously a complete set up. I thought I was watching Monty Python sketch. I don’t know what to make of the two ladies being interviewed. Perhaps they are genuine in what they say; perhaps they are paid by the interviewer, who knows? What is clearly not genuine is the claim that the interviewer and cameraman (whom you never see by the way) were threatened and then attacked by some mob. What? The interviewer says a hostile flash mob is forming and the situation is becoming extreme (cue ominous music again). What a load of malarkey, as Joe Biden would say, or a load of codswallop, as we in Britain would say. We never see a mob. What we do see is the interviewer talking with a small group of young men (about six of them) who are smiling and laughing as he interviews them. And yet he talks about dozens getting ready to beat him to a bloody pulp and he says this with no evidence whatsoever. Moreover, he says they have (pointed) sticks (or perhaps bananas – this is a Monty Python reference). Yes, one of the six the young men does say they would like sharia law if Britain were ever to become an Islamic country. This is a leading question by the interviewer. The young men did not volunteer this. In fact, they did not think that they could be governed by sharia law precisely because Britain is NOT an Islamic country. I think that one of the “comments” (by CorditeSpear) sums it up best:
“[W]hat a load of c**p. no-one gets attacked in this video, the first woman that 'ran away' lol. was smiling, not afraid at all. then the interviewer is seen joking about with those guys, and most of the conversation is edited apart from their views on what they think would be the best laws, of course they are going to say sharia, because they are muslims, . . . lol. what a load of rubbish this video is. but the bigots will love it.”
(continued)
And that’s the problem, isn’t it? This kind of garbage is produced just to feed bigots their foul fodder. And the other commenters do seem to lap it up. Good grief! Is this what we have come to? No wonder the video says “censored in Britain and Europe” (assuming this claim by the producer is true, of course, which it might very well not be). And the shame of it is, this drivel gets in the way of a serious discussion of the very real problems that do exist due to the tensions produced by Muslim immigration and unassimilated and alienated Muslim youth in Britain and European countries.
But I do thank you again for sharing these videos. I had heard how bad it could get on the internet. But I have never experienced anything like this directly. Now I have. And it certainly is bad. So, thank you for contributing to my education, and for confirming some of my worst suspicions about our flawed and fallen human nature. You do know who the Father of Lies is, right?
Anon, Anonymous 2, since when have genuine refugees looked at the useby date on a tin of food? These are not true refugees. There is too much evidence of the violent extremism being exhibited by Islamists in Britain, France and other European countries and your attempts to explain it all away amount to nothing more than a pathetic apology for a violent religion that aims to impose Sharia law in England and other countries.
Nothing mocked up in the following video. Violent riots all over europe and Australia. This is just showing reality but people like you will not admit that you are supporting violent minority groups:
Coming to a street near you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-QX8LuKHA
And the UN reports the demographics of the "refugees" are:
15% children, 13% women and 75% men. Therein lies the story.
http://data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/regional.php
As OnePeterFive reports:
"Lest anyone allow themselves to be deceived, this is not a normal migration – it is a hijra.
“Hijra” does mean “migration“ in Arabic. But it carries a deeper connotation. In Islamic history, the hijra was the event in 622 AD, when Muhammad and his small cult fled the city of Mecca to Yathrib, both of which are in what is today Saudi Arabia, and the latter which Muhammad renamed “Medina,” which means “the city.” This act marks three of the major events in Islam, which are:
The beginning of the Islamic calendar
The creation of the first Islamic government
The prolific use of violence and torture to propagate Islam"
That's why we have 75% men who have come to fight, nothing less, but they will find that in every country they are a minority and our men will not roll over like they these evil cowards who maraud around in gangs killing the innocent. I have only one word for you: shame!
Jan
Anonymous and Anon. Jan:
I really do not have time to examine every single video you send our way. I have job responsibilities to perform. The duty of due diligence is on you, not on me, to verify the veracity and credibility of what you post. I have done enough to demonstrate the problem. And here is my statement of the problem again: “And the shame of it is, this drivel gets in the way of a serious discussion of the very real problems that do exist due to the tensions produced by Muslim immigration and unassimilated and alienated Muslim youth in Britain and European countries.” Given that there are indeed very real problems, why on earth are these people fabricating videos (which they clearly are, as I have demonstrated) and propagating them all over the internet for gullible people to lap up? This is what I don’t understand. Please explain it to me (you know, like I was a four year old).
Also, I explain away nothing. I just show you that there are tricksters and fraudsters propagating nonsense which then gets posted on this Blog with the result that it is propagated even further. If people have really genuine material to share, why do they feel the need to make stuff up? To further their righteous cause is the most charitable explanation I can come up with. But, even if so, I’m sorry, the end does not justify the means (especially for Catholics).
There are several possible explanations why most of the refugees are men, by the way. For example, who do you think armed forces attempt to draft for fighting or who do you think is especially targeted in an area of conflict – men, women, or children? And refugees do not need to be thin and starving. Look up the UNHCR definition of refugee.
Anon. Jan:
I have only just seen your post of 9:50 p.m. yesterday evening with the link to the Daily Mail news report of the “grooming” trial. Now this is getting closer to the type of material you should be sharing. I continue to maintain that the claims of an attack by a mob of Muslim youths made by the interviewer of the two British women are bogus (there is absolutely no credible evidence to support these claims). I did say that I could not tell if the two women were telling a genuine story or if they were hired to say these things. The Daily Mail article suggests that at least some Muslim men have engaged in “grooming” or child sexual exploitation (even if many of the girls give their “consent”). Here is the report of a parliamentary inquiry on the subject of grooming by various ethnic groups:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmhaff/68/6802.htm
Now, this is the sort of material we should be considering, not misleading and mendacious videos made by the over-zealous for whatever reason (I still don’t know why they make this garbage). As I said before, you should not rely on such bogus material but on sources that are credible and properly balanced such as the parliamentary report above. All it does is hurt your case. We need to engage in an honest pursuit of the truth not a dishonest one.
Anon Anonymous 2, I happen to believe that video that you dismiss because you can hear the glass bottles coming down, you can also see the cars blocking them in, and you have to ask yourself why that group came along at all. That is hardly normal and why was it predominantly Asians and not other races? Also, what the women said about child grooming is consistent with many reports emanating from Britain.
In Sweden there has been a huge increase in rapes by Muslims - anyone not wearing a Burkha is regarded as fair game. There is also a young woman from Luton who said she had come back to see if all the stories she had learnt about Luton were true. She walks alongside a Muslim march - she is dressed in a long orange dress but is still accused of trying to seduce men by one of the burkha covered women. She said she couldn't believe it was so bad there. That is also on the one hour video which shows many, many incidents and this is the reason why people in Britain are turning against Islam and want to stop immigration in Britain.
The 75% demographic of men cannot be so easily explained away as you try to do. It is very concerning to me and others and it is being reported that ISIS has inflitrated among the "refugees". As it the Mail Online reports:
"Two in every 100 Syrian migrants smuggled into Europe are Islamic State-trained fanatics, David Cameron was warned yesterday.
Lebanese education minister Elias Bousaab, who met the Prime Minister during his lightning visit to the region, said the extremist group is sending trained jihadists ‘under cover’ to attack targets in the West.
If true, it could mean up to 400 of the 20,000 refugees Britain has promised to accept by 2020 have been radicalised."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3234458/Two-100-Syrian-migrants-ISIS-fighters-PM-warned-Lebanese-minister-tells-Cameron-extremist-group-sending-jihadists-cover-attack-West.html#ixzz3lzpoQrUo
The arrogance of many of the Islamic men portrayed on these videos that you so lightly dismiss is consistent with the arrogance displayed by ISIS and you can be sure there is now going to be an upsurge in terrorist attacks by the UN's open door policy. As is reported none of the Middle Eastern countries are taking any of these people.
Jan
Anon. Jan:
We will have to agree to disagree about that video.
I did watch some of the other, one hour video on Islam in Europe and America that Anonymous linked and on which the young lady in Luton also appears. There is nothing in what I saw that surprises me (it has the usual suspects such as Imam Anjem Choudary, for example). Nor would it surprise me to learn that some jihadist fighters had also infiltrated the refugees. No-one should deny the dangers posed by radical, jihadist Islam. But to generalize from what is surely a small minority of Muslims in European countries to all Muslims in those countries is an unwarranted leap. The makers of many of these videos seem to hate any Muslims being in these countries. They also create the impression that all young male Muslims among the refugees are radical jihadists or part of a hijra, which is absurd. Most of them are trying to escape from the radicals (you know like the Jews who tried to escape Hitler or refugees the world over who try to escape religious and political persecution). By the way, these refugees are not seeking resettlement from a third country but are seeking asylum, which also requires refugee status, as they enter these European countries.
What is occurring is “a great battle for the soul of Islam” and it is primarily Muslims who have to wage it. We in the West have to avoid doing stupid things that enable the radicals to win more converts to their point of view. This is indeed yet another reason many people (myself included) are so angry at the Bush administration for its reckless adventurism in Iraq. This foolish invasion played right into the hands of the radicals. It was exactly what they wanted. How dumb can you get!! But what can one expect with a president who did not know the difference between Sunni and Shia at the time of the invasion!
So, to be really smart about it, we also need to try to understand what is behind the radicals’ vision. What has led them to have the views they do? Why do they see the world that way? Why does radical Islam appeal to them? And we might just discover that this requires some soul searching of our own and that it offers way forward to a better understanding and perhaps even some prospects of a more peaceful outcome that does not require setting the world on fire. Of course, it may be too late, even assuming we are capable of such self-awareness. But if anyone is capable of it, Catholics should be capable of it, or so I would like to believe.
P.S. While I do not agree with everything he says, here is a book by Dinesh D’Souza, a good Catholic (I believe) despite his shortcomings (we all have them after all) that I have used in my own teaching in the past and that should help stimulate our collective soul-searching in the West. In particular he does a good job, I think, of helping us understand how the West is viewed by the rest of the world, especially the Islamic world, and why. I especially like that he criticizes both those on the Left and those on the Right, which seems just about right to me:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Enemy-At-Home-Responsibility/dp/0767915615
PP.S Dinesh is a darling of the conservative Right in the United States by the way.
Regardless of how many are innocent Muslims, what we are seeing is the islamisation of Europe. In 100 years either the islamists will have assimilated and behave like civilised people or there will be Sharia law everywhere and the west will be as uncivilised as Muslim countries with cutting off hands etc. This has been forced upon us by our governments - like it or not. America is getting the blame if you read the blogs in Europe. Germans, for example, are saying they want America to take the Muslims rather than them. Many are pointing out that they have millions of unemployed and in England they have their own people in poverty living in far worse conditions than any of the illegal immigrants because it is being seen as immigration - young men who have left their wives and children behind. How can Germany assimilate the large numbers that Merkle has so foolishly thrust upon her country? The Middle Eastern countries take not one refugee but have offered to build 400 mosques in Germany.
If you were living with a wave of Muslims - if Obama decides tomorrow to bring in 1 million Muslims then many Americans - like you - might change their minds. If you were living in Luton and other places of England where you can't walk freely down the street then you might change your mind. If you have daughters and grandaughters who were under threat then you might change your mind. If you had schools that have been taken over by militant muslims where everyone has to answer the call to prayer, etc, you might change your mind. As people are saying, it is all very well for Americdans to pontificate when they largely don't have the problem in their backyard as Obama has only offered to take 6,000. How many do you think America should take in? Personally, I agree with what some are saying that only women children and the elderly should be taken in - the rest should go back and fight for their country.
Many have noted that the attempts to break the rule of law in Hungary and the way these marchers have marched through many countries where, if they were true refugees, they would be safe points to the fact that they are only migrants in search of a better life. Who can blame them for that but they have to respect the rule of law and be prepared to be documented etc. Merkle of course hasn't helped by just announcing an open door policy. What did she expect when now over 1,200 a day are arriving in Germany. She closed the dooors - foolish woman.
I am quite happy to take Christian refugees but I think that Hungary has done the right thing as they fear the break down of their culture and Christian identity. Imagine a reverse migration - everyone tramped from Europe to Middle Eastern countries. Would that be tolerated? No. There would be mass bloodshed. There will be civil unrest now in Germany for years to come.
Jan
I need to correct/clarify my earlier characterization of Dinesh D’Souza as “a good Catholic (I believe).” According to the Wikipedia entry on him: “D'Souza attended the evangelical church Calvary Chapel from 2000 at least until 2010..D'Souza says that his Catholic background is important to him, but he is also comfortable with Protestant Reformation theology; he identifies as a nondenominational Christian.” I infer, then that he is not in fact currently a practicing Catholic.
Anon Anonymous 2 some more "made up: videos:
Muslims destroying soldiers' graves.
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBritainFirst/videos/851393248339271/
Imam claiming that Germans are only allowing the migrants in as cheap labour and claiming they will destroy Europe by outbreeding them.
https://www.facebook.com/100004435574890/videos/532158766941971/
Coming to a street near you.
How many of these are you going to take into your home? Bring them into company with your daughters and your granddaughters?
Jan
The messages have so got off topic...Pope Francis wants priests to be merciful ...to forgive sins...all sins no matter how grave...he wants them to show Mercy...like Jesus would..and to absolve those sins not condemning the sinner but freeing him/her.
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