Maybe I am reading my own bias into the pope’s words, but when he says Catholic voters must choose the lesser of two evils, meaning the persons and policies of Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, no one in the USA is advocating for the direct murder of migrants; they are advocating for legal immigration and the deportation of those who enter illegally. No one is advocating for the gunning down of illegal migrants to keep them out of the USA or to murder them once they are here. It might be cruel to send them back or keep them out depending on what they face in their country of origin, but it isn’t direct murder.
Abortion is direct murder, not just sending the baby out into the cold to fend for herself in a hostile environment.
12 comments:
Neither one is pro life. They both lie. But one lies way more than the other. There’s still no close question. Trump is unfit. He’s disqualified ab initio. Even at St Mary’s Baltimore they taught you about liars. Father, you know better.
In fact, you have never been more mendacious in your blather. I recommend for the sake of avoiding useless scandal that you shut this mess going forward. Satan is speaking through you, man.
Father McDonald said..."Thus of the two evils the pope presents, direct murder is a greater evil than deportation or strict laws for immigration. In other words, the migration issue is the lesser of the two evils."
Okay. But what about Donald Trump's pro-abortion stance? Donald Trump's pro-Culture of Death policies extend beyond the migration issue.
We must consider that.
Again, Donald Trump is pro-abortion. He is pro-artificial birth control. He supports chemical abortions via the abortion pill mifepristone.
In light of the above, I am unable to conclude that Pope Francis endorsed Donald Trump.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Tell me one politician who isn't corrupt in one way or another, be it sexually, in terms of veracity or anything else. But that's not the point. Pope Francis indicates we should vote and Catholics, using their conscience, should vote for the lesser of two evils. I've made quite an orthodox as well as liberal argument about which of the two issues Pope Francis raised, not me, are the lesser of two evils, between a immigration policy His Holiness points out is immoral and anti-quality of life and abortion which is the direct murder of an innocent human being. You have not commented on that with your blind rage at me for pointing out what Pope Francis said and teaches.
Of course Pope Francis was speaking about immoral immigration policies as he understands it and the direct murder of human beings in the womb. I've made a case for those two comparisons and which is the lesser of the two evils. If you want to simply focus on the abortion issue, which our Holy Father did not do, then in terms of abortion, Trump wants limits on it whereas Harris does not. Therefore of the two evils, Trump's position is the lesser of them!
IF it was simply Abortion vs Immigration Policy, you might have a very, very slight chance of being on to something. However, we know that there are many things that should be taken into account when choosing a president.
And we know that Pope Francis was NOT "teaching" in his comment.
So, to answer your question DID POPE FRANCIS INDIRECTLY ENDORSE DONALD TRUMP FOR THE U.S. PRESIDENCY?
The answer is decidedly NO.
Let us not forget that Pope Francis also said “Which is the lesser evil? . . . I don’t know; each person must think and decide according to their own conscience.”
Once again, we are not left without guidance on this matter. While identifying abortion as the “preeminent” issue, the USCCB document “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship” does not mandate voting for the “lesser of two evils” in the abstract or in a vacuum but instead provides guidance and a methodology for reasoning our way to a conscientious decision regarding which is the lesser of two evils all things considered—a process of reasoning, then, that takes into account multiple considerations, which I am not going to repeat here yet again (everyone needs to read the document for themselves). Suffice it to say that, at least as I read that document (and I would contend on any reasonable reading), it permits voting for a candidate who is not the lesser of the two evils on the abortion issue alone or even compared with other evils in a vacuum, provided one does not vote for that candidate to support their position on abortion.
And so, a voter who decides that Trump is disqualified due to his pathological lying (an intrinsic evil), his blatant racism including in his attitude toward immigrants of color (an intrinsic evil), the existential threat he represents to the Republic and democracy, seriously warped character and lack of credibility, feasibility of addressing the abortion issue through congressional legislation and arguably more effective ways to address it (watch the courts as the XIV Amendment “due process” issue continues to be litigated), and so on, can in good conscience vote for Harris—provided the decision is reached in a conscientious way. Like so many others, including genuine conservatives like Liz Cheney and Dick Cheney, I will not be voting for Trump but for “the lesser of two evils” all things considered.
Mark J.
Father McDonald, you have determined that candidate Donald Trump, as compared to candidate Kamala Harris, is the lesser evil. As Pope Francis stated, one must vote in line with one's conscience. Okay.
My conscience will prevent me from voting for either candidate in question.
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As to the argument that Donald Trump wishes to limit the practice of abortion: Donald Trump supports chemical abortions via the abortion pill.
The process of chemical abortions has boomed in recent years. In regard to the most recent statistics that I have read: Chemical abortions account for 63 percent of all abortions performed in America.
A person who desires to limit the practice of abortion would not support the use of the abortion pill. Donald Trump also favors artificial birth control. There are additional Culture of Death practices that Donald Trump supports.
I do not view Donald Trump as a serious pro-life candidate.
Father McDonald, thank you for having allowed me to express the above opinion here.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I agree with Mark J's eloquent commentary in regard to the USCCB document in question.
I appreciate Mark J's excellent point that "Let us not forget that Pope Francis also said “Which is the lesser evil? . . . I don’t know; each person must think and decide according to their own conscience.”
Pope Francis' above comment is at odds with the notion that His Holiness endorsed Donald Trump.
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I respect that Father McDonald's conscience has led him to view Donald Trump as the less evil candidate. My conscience will not permit me to vote for either candidate in question. But may God strengthen me against Satan's desire that I act uncharitably toward Father McDonald, or anybody with whom I disagree politically.
In regard to the often contentious realm of politics: I hope that we Catholics, as brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, avoid attacking each other.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I wrote that Pope Francis’ comparing Trump’s proposed policies toward ILLEGAL immigration to Harris endorsement of a national law that allows women to murder their unborn child through the 9th month of pregnancy, is an indirect endorsement that the migration policies are a lesser moral evil than the direct killing of innocent human beings. MT you this disagree with Pope Francis who said this at the conclusion of his indirect endorsement that Trump’s immoral proposals concerning illegal immigration is a lesser evil than the direct murder of abortion: “In political morality, it is generally said that not voting is ugly, it's not good. One must vote. And one must choose the lesser evil. Which is the lesser evil? That lady or that gentleman? I don’t know; each person must think and decide according to their own conscience.”
Despite the MAGA movement’s penchant for twisting language, doublethink, and gaslighting, it is grammatically impossible that “I don’t know” means “I do know.” Moreover, one should note what Pope Francis did NOT say. Even allowing for Jesuitical casuistry, if Father McDonald is correct that the case is so clear that Trump’s immigration stance is the lesser of two evils, one would have expected Pope Francis to say so, or at least to say “For me the answer is clear but everyone must think and decide according to their own conscience.” And as I indicated in my previous post, The USCCB document gives us sufficient guidance on how to do that.
Mark J.
I do think that Russell Crowe can help shed some additional light on the matter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAwIN8J3RAE
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