My comments embedded in red in the text of this National Chismatic Reporter (NCR) article, which is actually very good, as this reporter, Joshua McElwee is a good reporter and reports:
ROME — Pope Francis expresses support for the creation of civil union laws for same-sex couples as part of a new documentary about his seven-year papacy, which is premiering in Rome Oct. 21. But his comments on the matter appear an affirmation of previously articulated views.
In the documentary, titled "Francesco," Francis says that gay people are "children of God" and "have a right to be part of the family." The pope then suggests that civil union laws may provide a way for countries to protect the legal rights of persons in same-sex relationships. (Most Catholics today, unlike in pre-Vatican II times, do not disown their wayward children especially as it concerns same sex attraction and unions. Pope Francis is merely emphasizing the Gospel here. Parents who have children who are in same sex civil unions, what are now called marriages in most countries should not disown their children in these unions).
Although the EWTN-owned Catholic News Agency reported that Francis' words were a "departing" from his previous teachings, the pontiff has previously spoken in favor of civil unions at least twice as a way to differentiate between Catholic marriage and relationships recognized by state authorities.
Francis expressed such a view in 2017 as part of an interview with the French author Dominique Wolton. Asked then about the possibility of marriage for same-sex couples, the pope replied: "Let's call this 'civil unions.' We do not joke around with truth." (Pope Francis does not call these civil unions “marriage” as this term can only be used between one man and one woman free to marry. I think this is a wise way to approach the fact that civil unions are already here and civil law calls these marriages. We have civil same sex unions, so I don’t know what the pope is asking. Is he asking civil law to change the term of these unions to Civil Unions instead of marriage????)
The pope also spoke about civil unions in a 2014 interview with the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, in which he acknowledged that states passing civil union laws were primarily doing so in order to provide same-sex partners legal rights. (While this is true, states do so to make clear there is no distinction between same sex unions and heterosexual unions—the pope seems not to acknowledge this. Perhaps His Holiness is out of touch?)
The new documentary "Francesco," which is directed by Evgeny Afineevsky, focuses most on how Francis has affected people he has met as pope in various places across the world.
The question of civil unions comes up in the film in a segment that features Andrea Rubera, a gay Italian man who was able to participate in one of the pope's daily Masses in the Vatican's Santa Marta residence.
Rubera says that he gave Francis a letter that explained conversations he and his partner were having over whether to take their children to church, fearing they might be subject to unfair judgment as children of a gay couple.
Rubera says the pope later called him, and encouraged them take their children to church and to be honest with the pastor about their living situation. (Most parishes today are dealing with same sex civil unions who also have adopted children or produced them in an unethical, immoral way. But they are still children of God and if there is good faith on the part of their “parents” they should not be excluded from being raised in the practice of the faith. Keep in mind, children of parents in illicit second marriages or no marriage at all are not excluded from Catholic schools or being raised in the practice of the Faith.)
In an interview with the filmmakers during that segment, Francis mentions civil union laws, adding: "I supported that."
Those last words appear an acknowledgement of the role then-Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio played as archbishop of Buenos Aires in urging the bishops of Argentina to support civil unions.
As The New York Times reported in March 2013, Bergoglio was a key behind-the-scenes negotiator during a tense period in 2010 when the Argentinian government was considering whether to allow same-sex marriage. The cardinal reportedly suggested that the bishops instead seek passage of a civil union law, angering many of his peers in the episcopate.
[Joshua J. McElwee is NCR Vatican correspondent.]
My final comments: Same sex civil marriage is the law of the land in the USA and for several years now. Armageddon has not happened.
What is lacking in this documentary where the pope drops his so-called bombshell is the fact that He is fighting a battle that no longer exists. Civil unions are not the name that states have given these same sex legally recognized unions, they are called marriage in law and on equal footing with heterosexual marriage.
What is lacking, though, is calling sin a sin and calling those in sin to repentance. We all must face the last four things, death, judgement, heaven and hell and only God will decide what is moral and immoral and the culpability that each sinner has for his sins and The damnation to the eternal fires of hell or salvation to the bliss of heavenly paradise.
19 comments:
Scandal.
1). The Church teaches that there are 9 ways that we participate in the sins of others, including counsel, command, consent, provocation, flattery, concealment, partaking, silence and defense of the sin. Surrendering to the notion, "They're going to do it anyway, so let's just make it easier for them" violates counsel, consent and, to a degree, silence. THIS IS ENABLING SIN--A SIN THAT CRIES OUT TO GOD FOR VENGEANCE.
2). The media is already have a field day with this. Once more, just like the "who am I to judge" comment, we are going to be told that the Pope is changing Church teaching. The teachings of the Church are immutable.
We must love our pope. We must pray for our pope. And we must bite the bullet while he continues to do everything in his power to embarrass us and behave like a buffoon for the world.
Just wondering if priests and same sex monastics can have such civil unions, and moreover, why limit the union to only 2 people since a family can be large or small?
Father McDonald, thank you for having reported that the "BREAKING NEWS...BOMBSHELL" story in question is just one big.....yaaaaawn. Yawn.
Pope Francis reiterated that which he had declared years ago.
Pope Francis comments in question are 100 percent orthodox.
The supposed "BREAKING NEWS!!!" story is just left-wing/right-wing hype and distortion.
Father McDonald is almost alone today...he's among the few blogosphere/twitter folks to have noted correctly that the story in question is a yawner.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Bishop David Zubik, Pittsburgh:
"The Holy Father’s recent comments on the passage of a law for civil unions for homosexual persons reflect his pastoral approach to persons who may be on the peripheries of society.
"His comments in no way signal a departure from the teaching of the Catholic Church concerning marriage or homosexuality.
"It speaks, rather, of a pastoral approach to these issues."
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John Allen interview today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk_X9x9Rx6Y
John Allen documented and noted:
-- Pope Francis' comments in question are not new...offered by Pope Francis years ago.
-- Pope Francis' comments in question are in line with Church teaching.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Is "civil union" versus "marriage" a distinction without a difference? Kind of like, there is really no distinction between a winter spent at International Falls and one spent in North Dakota?
I have found the past few hours on Twitter that one Spanish speaker after another noted that Pope Francis employed the words "convivencia civil."
The Spanish speakers in question said that "convivencia civil" does not mean "homosexual unions" in Spanish.
"Convivencia civil" means "civil coexistence" in Spanish.
Anyway, Pope Francis' comments via the interview are orthodox.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Statement of Thomas Tobin, ordinary of Providence, RI:
October 21, 2020
The Holy Father’s apparent support for the recognition of civil unions for same-sex couples needs to be clarified. The Pope’s statement clearly contradicts what has been the long-standing teaching of the Church about same-sex unions. The Church cannot support the acceptance of objectively immoral relationships. Individuals with same-sex attraction are beloved children of God and must have their personal human rights and civil rights recognized and protected by law. However, the legalization of their civil unions, which seek to simulate holy matrimony, is not admissible.
From the CDF - 3-28-03
In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.
---
11. The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions. The common good requires that laws recognize, promote and protect marriage as the basis of the family, the primary unit of society. Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behaviour, with the consequence of making it a model in present-day society, but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity. The Church cannot fail to defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience of March 28, 2003, approved the present Considerations, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered their publication.
Mark Thomas posts multiple consecutive posts on a topic that involved pope Bergoglio. Yawn.
Mark Thomas blindly defends the controversial words of his favorite bishop of Rome by selectively ignoring the obvious. Yawn.
Mark Thomas ignores Fr. McDonald's observation that such remarks create public scandal, especially by failing to call for repentance. Yawn.
Mark Thomas drives more people away from reading this blog...big...yaawwwwn.
DJR: Thank you. For every Catholic, your content should be the last word on yet another bumbling misstep by the chosen one of the St. Gallen Mafia.
Thank God for Bishop Tobin....and for people like Tom Marcus who can clearly point out to us the boot licking drivel of a certain someone on this blog.
I am wondering if the Popes biggest "BLIND" defender is ready to fall on his sword for him......its coming.......and its going to be ugly.
"Pope Francis is merely emphasizing the Gospel here." Citations, please. Maybe you are thinking about the prodigal son? But his father did not visit him in the distant land and embrace the son's friends as members of the family. The son separated himself from the family, and until he literally repented, the father did not run after him.
"Parents who have children who are in same sex civil unions, what are now called marriages in most countries should not disown their children in these unions." Do you say that because you think that nothing whatsoever should cause parents to disown their children, or because you think same-sex unions are really not so bad? And again, are you asserting this as your own opinion as a blogger, or as the teaching of the Catholic Church, and if the latter, what evidence do you have?
Totally agree with your final comments.....
"My final comments: Same sex civil marriage is the law of the land in the USA and for several years now. Armageddon has not happened." Seriously? You have a remarkably low barrier to clear for things to be peachy. State atheism was the law of the land in the Soviet Union for several decades, with 3-12 million Ukrainians deliberately starved to death and/or driven to cannibalism, but hey, Armageddon did not happen. Just recently a priest desecrated himself, his parish church, and its altar in an unspeakable act, but hey, Armageddon did not happen. Abortion has been the law of the land in the USA for several years now, resulting in more than 50 million deliberate murders, but no Armageddon!
I'd like to see you show at least as much concern for this as you likely do when someone cuts you off in traffic.
The idea of Contracts of Civil Unions was to offer legal protection and tax benefits. They made no moral judgement, just legal judgement. Had the world’s governments simply changed the name of a “marriage license” to a “license of civil union” I would have no complaint. It would have been good to see government get out of the marriage business. Instead of that we got stuck with paid off politician’s and government declaring their “moral authority.” Their being in the marriage business led to their takeover of church business. Pope Francis comments are simply a propagandists sound bite. No one is going to listen to his argument, they will simply use his sound bite to create the headline and article they want to print. Off topic: it’s no surprise CRS’s Carolyn Woo is a member of the Biden/Harris camp.
Sophia here:
Suffice it to say that Pope Francis has given us yet another teaching moment for St. Paul's warning to the Galatians (1:6-8) "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting...and are turning to another gospel- not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the Gospel of Christ. But even if we or an Angel from Heaven should proclaim to you a Gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed".
Let us take comfort from the Promise Of Jesus regarding His Bride, The Church, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against her"!
Sophia here: The following is an excellent response to Pope Francis' endorsement of civil unions for same sex partners:
https://gracewepray.org/wednesday-october-21-2020/
Mark Thomas:
Please reconcile Pope Francis' endorsement of "civil unions" for people sexually attracted to their same sex, with the CDF's statement:
Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behavior, with the consequence of making it a model in present-day society, but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity. The Church cannot fail to defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself...
The Congregation on the Doctrine of the Faith added, calling support for such unions from politicians “gravely immoral.”
Not even in a remote analogous sense do homosexual unions fulfil the purpose for which marriage and family deserve specific categorical recognition. On the contrary, there are good reasons for holding that such unions are harmful to the proper development of human society, especially if their impact on society were to increase....
Sophia here: The following is an excellent response to Pope Francis' endorsement of civil unions for same sex partners:
https://gracewepray.org/wednesday-october-21-2020/
Interesting is the similarities of word in these two statements:
In the documentary, titled "Francesco," Francis says that gay people are "children of God" and "have a right to be part of the family."
The Every Child Deserves a Family Act (ECDFA) would prohibit any child welfare agency receiving federal financial assistance from discriminating against any potential foster or adoptive family on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, or marital status. In addition, ECDFA would prevent discrimi…
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