Compare the two Catholics, former Vice President, Joseph Biden and Supreme Court candidate Amy Cony Barrett. Which one is actually a Catholic and the other in schism? Which one gives no scandal when she receives Holy Communion compared to the other who does when he receives Holy Communion?
And liturgically speaking, and let us leave the EF Mass out of the equation, but depending on the parish you attend or the various Masses in the same parish you are in, the Mass can be more different, freewilling and creative showing no unity in parishes in the same diocese or Masses in the same parish. There is a Balkanization of the Church even in the same parish, a sort of schism not to mention the various things that Catholics can’t agree upon that are defined by the Magisterium in terms of Faith and Morals.
This Balkanization and actual schism is not be be found in parishes that exclusively celebrate the EF Mass, although I will admit that the EF Mass adds another element to this virtual schism in the Church.
Let’s talk about bishops and their own schism. Here are three examples:
First, my Bishop Stephen Parkes has a blood brother, Bishop Gregory Parkes of St. Petersburg, Florida. This is a very orthodox tweet of his:
Compare that and the statement of Bishop Daly of Spokane, Washington, another very orthodox bishop who is far from being schismatic in his moral teachings with what Bishop McElroy of San Diego teaches as reported by the National Catholic Register who also quotes the NCR (National Chismatic Reporter):
Bishop Daly Challenges Bishop McElroy’s Statements on Abortion and the 2020 Election
During an Oct. 13 virtual discussion about voting, the bishop of San Diego implied that Joe Biden’s overt support for abortion rights is a ‘prudential’ position that is acceptable for a Catholic politician to advance.
SPOKANE, Wash. — Bishop Thomas Daly of Spokane told the Register Wednesday that he strongly disagreed with San Diego Bishop Robert McElroy’s guidance to Catholic voters, offered during a virtual discussion organized by St. Mary’s College just three weeks before the 2020 presidential election.
In his Oct.13 remarks, Bishop McElroy indicated it was acceptable for Catholics to support Democratic nominee Joe Biden’s pro-abortion-rights stance because, according to the bishop, the “formulation of individual laws regarding abortion” lies in the “realm” of prudential judgment.
“Reading through Bishop McElroy’s statement, I noticed that he never mentions that abortion is the ‘preeminent’ moral issue for Catholics,” Bishop Daly told the Register.
“Bishop McElroy is a moral theologian, but one of the most important roles of a bishop is to teach, and he never mentions the Church’s teaching that abortion is the ‘preeminent’ moral issue for Catholics.”
During the discussion, which was titled “Voting as an Authentic Disciple,” at the Indiana college, Bishop McElroy addressed the question of how Catholic voters should consider a candidate’s position on abortion.
According to the National Catholic Reporter, Bishop McElroy said that because the Church teaches that some actions, including abortion, are “intrinsically evil,” defined as “always and everywhere wrong,” Church leaders have argued that “candidates who seek laws opposing intrinsically evil actions automatically have a primary claim to political support in the Catholic conscience.”
The San Diego bishop did not agree with this position and told his audience that “the framing of legislation is inescapably the realm of prudential judgment, not intrinsic evil.”
24 comments:
Akita:
"you will see bishop against bishop"
You are right father. The schism is there. Electing Trump didn't create division in America--it merely revealed it. Having Francis (or for that matter Benedict) as pope doesn't create division in our Church. It merely reveals it.
One side stands with immutable truth. The other is damned. We have to choose. And the choice is about to get a lot more expensive for one side.
Another "fruit" of Vatican II.
I get the San Diego would say the opposite about the death penalty. Liberals LOVE hardened, evil killers
I grew up in San Diego and lived there for 45 years. It's a beautiful, dysfunctional town, not unlike other California cities that grew too fast.
The bishop of my young childhood, was Charles F. Buddy. He was San Diego's first bishop and was desperate for priests. He had a reputation of taking the dregs from many other dioceses to fill his parishes. In many other respects, he was a good bishop. There have been five bishops since and, unfortunately, the last few have been embarrassments. The current bishop is beyond embarrassing. I love San Diego, warts and all. I wish my poor hometown could get a good bishop who spoke like a Catholic.
Anon 10:28. We love you, too, so you are in good company.
Bee here:
There was a discussion on another post here about a loyalty oath administered to a priest, and someone opined the priest should be able to express his thoughts that are in conflict with Church doctrine in an academic or theological setting, but not in his homilies.
Now we have a BISHOP, who has some kind of official standing as a "moral theologian," I expect he acquired in an academic setting, claiming a mortal sin such as abortion, a sin that carries with it automatic excommunication, no less, is arguing that glorious gigantic loophole of "informed conscience."
How does a ordained man develop a thought that strains the gnat and swallows the camel, and then NOT teach that to Catholics under his authority?
Do these men believe that God does not exist and so we are free to make up our own moral laws at will? Do they doubt the very basis of our Faith, that God has revealed Himself and His standards to us, and we are compelled to obey or suffer eternal fire for not doing so?
If my parents taught me and my brothers that I must never steal, and then, when my parents are not at home, my older brother who is in charge while they are gone tells me I should take $10 my mother keeps in the cookie jar and go buy alcohol with it so we can get drunk, do you think my parents, when they find out, won't punish us both? Or are my parents so permissive the morality they expect are mere suggestions, but hold no consequences, and they will just laugh it off?
Lucky me, I have a well enough formed conscience not to listen to my older brother, nor to bishops such as Bishop Daly. But how many very badly catechized people will be glad to know they are off the hook, and to learn the method to dodge the inconvenient moral doctrine of the Church?
Jesus Christ went to His death on a cross because of sin. So what is sin that it would warrant such a price?
No wonder our statues are being torn down and our churches set on fire.
God bless.
Bee
Bee,
It is a sad day when a lay person has a better grasp of the Faith than many of our bishops and priests
"I know moreover that not only this thing saddens you, but also the fact that while others have obtained the churches by violence, you are meanwhile cast out from your places. For they hold the places, but you the Apostolic faith. They are, it is true, in the places, but outside of the true Faith; while you are outside of the places indeed, but the Faith, within you. Let us consider whether is the greater, the place or the Faith. Clearly, the true Faith. Who then has lost more, or who possesses more? He who holds the place, or he who holds the Faith?"
Athanasius of Alexandria AD 357 from letter XXiX written to hisChurch in Alexandria when he was in exile and could not be with them.
The floor of hell is lined with the skulls of Bishop’s. And as for the anti-church the ape of the church has been alive and well since 65.
Sophia here: The 69 Bishops,(1/3 of those present at last November's USCCB General Assembly) led by Bishop McElroy and Cardinal Cupich who voted against making abortion the pre-eminent issue for the 2020 elections bring to mind this quote from St Paul's Letter to the Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or an Angel if we or an Angel from Heaven should proclaim to you
a Gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed!"
Schismatic indeed! May Jesus Christ deliver His bride, the Church, from the enemies within her!
Pax
Sophia here: There is hope!
List of cardinals, bishops, priests who are warning Catholics about pro-abortion Biden-Harris ticket!
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/list-of-cardinals-bishops-priests-who-are-warning-catholics-about-pro-abortion-biden-harris-ticket?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com&utm_campaign=37469f9186-Daily%2520Headlines%2520-%2520U.S._COPY_869&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-37469f9186-404117813
Bee here:
Anonymous @ October 16, 2020 at 5:11 PM:
Thank you for the quote from St. Athanasius of Alexandria. It was very helpful to me.
God bless,
Bee
"The floor of Hell is lined with the skulls of bishops."
Really, Paul? Give us some specific examples? Like "Bishop ABC" is in Hell. Are some of the former bishops of Georgia there? I did not know the Church had ruled specifically that any particular person was in Hell, like Hitler or even Stalin.
Anonymous k,
Quit deflecting and ponder the evil you are voting for
There in lies the poison...policy, x, y, z, more often times than not is a matter of prudential judgement. Abortion however is not...With bishops like McIlroy, who needs enemies?
Anonymous at o609, if your tweet is aimed at me from 219pm, no, I am not anonymous K. I have never, ever met him. And you claim I am voting for evil---where is the proof? Do you know who I am backing for president or US Senate here in Georgia?
Poison? The choice is about voting, not abortion, and that choice is 100% prudential.
Anonymous K at 7:22,
Abortion is a prudential matter? Sounds like your bishop needs to investigate you
You can't even read.
Try again, paying attention to the commas.
"The choice is about voting, not abortion, and that choice is 100% prudential."
Anonymous at 7:11,
Maybe you should express yourself better, since I speak 3 languages. Tu parlez, Francais?
The US general election is NOT. a referendum on abortion.
It is, however, a referendum on Trump’s tenure!
My expression was flawless. This sentence:
"The choice is about voting, not abortion, and that choice is 100% prudential."
does not in any way suggest that "abortion is a prudential matter" as you asserted.
You can speak 30 languages for all I care. Try reading plain English sentences with understanding.
But voting for a pro abortion candidate shows a Catholic does not understand the meaning of the word prudential
So you think we (in the Catholic Church) have it bad these days, with discussion of schism, declining membership and church attendance?
Well, we are in the land of milk and honey compared with the Episcopal Church. Some excerpts from a newly-released statistical report on their Church website:
"2019 parochial reports shows continued declined and a 'dire' future for the Episcopal Church. Giving increases but membership and attendance trends are unsustainable...Even before Covid 19, the Episcopal Church's days were numbered. The overall picture is dire...At this rate, there will be no one in worship by around (the year) 2050 in the entire generation. Membership is down 17.4% over the last 10 years."
Hmmm...evidence enough that the more liberal a denomination gets, the more that members head for the exits? Yet the Episcopal Church keeps electing far-left presiding bishops who embrace abortion on demand and same-sex "marriage".
So as I said earlier..if you think things are bad in the Catholic Church these days....
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