Friday, April 28, 2017

THIS IS A BIG STEP FOR THE COPTS

Pope in Egypt: Catholics and Copts recognise shared baptism

Pope Francis signs a common declaration with Coptic Pope Tawadros II affirming a shared baptism between the two Churches - RV
Pope Francis signs a common declaration with Coptic Pope Tawadros II affirming a shared baptism between the two Churches - RV
28/04/2017 18:24

(Vatican Radio) In a common declaration, signed by Pope Francis and Coptic Pope Tawadros II, Catholics and Copts declare for the first time that they will recognise each other’s sacrament of baptism.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well we Catholics accept everybody's Baptism so...

Marc said...

This is a huge step. It's actually quite a shocking step, as a matter of fact.

Carol H. said...

Marc, how is your son? I've been praying for you all.

Marc said...

Carol, thank you for asking. He is very critical. Please continue to pray for him. And thank you for your prayers so far!

V. Martinez said...

Catholics don't accept Mormon baptisms.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Marc, I did not know! Your son is in my prayers as are you and mom!

Mark Thomas said...

Marc, please know that I have prayed for your son and family. Peace and good health to you and your family.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Marc said...

Thank you, Father!

Carol H. said...

Fr., not sure if you are aware, F. Malloy's wife died, heart attack I think. His family also needs prayers.

Mark Thomas said...

Here is the Vatican's English-language translation of the document signed by His Holiness Pope Francis and Tawadros II, Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of the See of Saint Mark.

http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2017/04/28/0279/00640.html#orig

7. "As we journey towards the blessed day when we will at last gather at the same Eucharistic table, we can cooperate in many areas and demonstrate in a tangible way the great richness which already unites us.

"We can bear witness together to fundamental values such as the sanctity and dignity of human life, the sacredness of marriage and the family, and respect for all of creation, entrusted to us by God.

========================================================================

"...the sacredness of marriage..."

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/06/egypt-coptic-church-marriage-divorce-protest-adultery-law.html

2015 A.D.

Egypt’s Copts dig heels in over right to remarry

CAIRO — Dozens of Christian Copts organized a protest inside the Cathedral of St. Mark in the Abbasiya district during the June 3 homily of Pope Tawadros II of Alexandria and patriarch of Saint Mark, the 118th pope for the Christian Coptic Orthodox Church. The protesters shouted, “We want to remarry,” while the priests tried to contain the situation, but to no avail, prompting Tawadros to cancel his sermon.

Christian Copts are protesting, calling for their religious right to remarry and the necessity to expand the spectrum of the grounds for divorce that they believe the church should recognize.

Magdi Mehanna, who spoke for the coalition, told Al-Monitor that the group decided to protest after several futile attempts to meet with bishops to discuss the issue, as security officers denied the group access.

Mehanna said their sole demand is the implementation of the 1938 personal status code bylaws set by the Coptic Church.

The guidelines provide nine grounds for divorce and remarriage, including: adultery; absence of a spouse for five years without any news of him or her, or if the wife goes missing and was nowhere to be found — neither at her parents’ or relatives’; if one spouse was a threat to the other; if one of the spouses suffers from a mental illness and is admitted to a psychiatric hospital as a result or if one of the spouses is infected with contagious diseases or the husband is impotent; if a spouse is imprisoned for seven years; in case one of the spouses takes religious vows; and in the event either member of the couple decides to renounce Christianity.

The 1938 bylaws have not been in effect since 1971, when Pope Shenouda, Tawadros’ predecessor, took up his post. Shenouda died in 2012.

During Shenouda's papacy, the only ground for divorce recognized by the state was adultery. Adulterers and people who sought divorces on other grounds were not granted the right to a second marriage by the Coptic Church.

Lawyer Ramsis Nagar, the legal representative of the Coptic Church, told Al-Monitor, “The church does not interpret holy matrimony as it suits it, as this sacred sacrament is provided for in the Bible and there is no ground for divorce except for adultery.

"The party that committed adultery shall not have the permission to remarry, while the other party [the one who was cheated on] shall have the right to remarry.

"The adulterer’s second marriage is valid as per the civil law, but the church is not obliged to recognize it. In any case, the church does not look into the grounds of divorce except for cases within the context of adultery.”

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Here is the link to Pope Francis's sermon from today's Mass in Cairo.

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2017/04/29/pope_francis_in_cairo_full_text_of_homily_at_sat_am_mass_/1308944

"Dear brothers and sisters,

God is pleased only by a faith that is proclaimed by our lives, for the only fanaticism believers can have is that of charity! Any other fanaticism does not come from God and is not pleasing to him!

"So now, like the disciples of Emmaus, filled with joy, courage and faith, return to your own Jerusalem, that is, to your daily lives, your families, your work and your beloved country.

"Do not be afraid to open your hearts to the light of the Risen Lord, and let him transform your uncertainty into a positive force for yourselves and for others.

"Do not be afraid to love everyone, friends and enemies alike, because the strength and treasure of the believer lies in a life of love!"

"Al Masih qam! Bi-l-haqiqa qam! Christ is risen! He is truly risen!"
==============================================================================

I pray that I make Pope Francis' beautiful, peaceful ways my ways. I hope to grow closer each day to our holy and awesome Vicar of Christ. Pope Francis is the Chief Shepherd of God's True Church.

Therefore, I refuse to embrace arguments concocted by certain "traditionalists" who attempt to justify and promote dissent against the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis.

I refuse to be tricked by Satan, who works overtime to convince Catholics to despise and reject Pope Francis and his (Pope Francis') God-given authority to teach, govern, and sanctify the Holy People of God.

The voice of Jesus Christ is heard via Pope Francis.

God has blessed us with a holy Pontiff in His Holiness Pope Francis. Deo gratias.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

#PopeinEgypt

https://twitter.com/hashtag/PopeinEgypt?src=hash

Pax.

Mark Thomas

George said...


Marc, I will pray for your son and family, and Carol, will also pray for the Malloy family.

V. Martinez:
The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism because there are certain fundamental teachings and beliefs of that denomination that do not exactly correspond to Christian tenets and theology.
For one thing, there is the Mormon teaching that the Trinity is comprised of three distinct beings, and not as the Catholic Church teachs, which is that the Holy Trinity is comprised of three Divine Persons in one Being.
So when a person in that denomination is baptized, it is not as the Catholic Church
intends when its priestly ministers baptizes a person in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

rcg said...

I'm glad Pope Francis got back safely. Egypt, Lebanon, Morocco, and Syria, believe it or not, are places where Islam could be defeated. But they are dicy places in any case.

Marc said...

I have read a little more about this. First, Roman Catholics already "recognized" Coptic baptisms. Roman Catholics "recognize" just about every baptism (with the notable exception of the Mormons). So the story here is not about Roman Catholic acceptance of Coptic baptisms.

Second, the issue here has to do with Coptic ecclesiology. That being the case, it appears upon further reading that the Coptics will continue to "rebaptize" Roman Catholics who convert to Coptic Orthodoxy. The statement is, it turns out, prospective from the Coptic perspective. Of course, economia would still apply, but that seems to remain the general rule.

Third, as assumed in the preceding point, ecclesiology is at stake here, but the question of ecclesiology is raised in the context of the reception of converts. The normative practice is to "rebaptize" Roman Catholics who become Coptic Orthodox as a result of the ecclesiological doctrines. Whereas, Roman Catholic ecclesiology allows for the reception of converts from Coptic Orthodoxy by a profession of faith.

I am unsure the manner in which the non-Chalcedonians accept converts from Chalcedonian Orthodoxy. I gather their is some agreement between some non-Chalcedonians and some Chalcedonians to accept converts by an abjuration of errors/statement of faith.

The entire idea of having agreements between groups as to how to incorporate those who leave one group for another is bizarre to me. But, that's not what this is really about. It's really about ecumenism, which is why there is a major reaction when ecclesiological positions are seemingly undone in favor of these sorts of ecumenist gestures.

Joe Potillor said...

If I remember, there was some sort of Theological agreement on Christological language between the non Chalcedonian churchesa and the Calcedonian churches.....

This is a major step forward, here's hoping....