Some would have us believe that Pope Francis graciously backed downed from forcing Africa to eat the pork of same sex sex (sodomy) blessings. In fact, Cardinal Ambongo forced Pope Francis to allow Africa to have a dispensation from blessing sodomy and the couples who glory in it.
Cardinal Ambongo was able to get the entire continent of African bishops to back his quest to get the pope to allow them to follow orthodox Catholic morality by not blessing those couples who publicly live in sin, the sin of sodomy, because if the Pope had forced the issue as he has done so in suppressing the TLM communities, a whole continent would have gone into schism due to the pope’s heterodoxy. No matter how it comes about, schism is schism and is a mortal sin like same sex sex.
Not in my lifetime or in anyone’s lifetime since the Great Schism in 1054, has an entire continent threatened to separate from the pope due to the pope’s novel new teaching on blessing couples engaged in public sin.
John Allen who lives in Rome, believes that what Cardinal Ambongo was able to do with Pope Francis makes him a strong, orthodox potential new pope at the next conclave, especially his moral orthodoxy which Pope Francis has wrongheadedly and stubbornly undermined during his papacy.
Here is the money byte from John Allen’s Crux article which you can read in full HERE:
To begin with, it marks the first time the bishops of an entire continent have said that a Vatican edict will not be applied on their territory. Given how difficult it generally is to get an unwieldy body of bishops to agree on anything, the compact and rapid fashion in which SECAM responded is, inter alia, a testament to Ambongo’s leadership.
Moreover, the SECAM statement is also striking for the manner in which it was worked out in concert with the pope and his top advisors.
Ambongo has told the story in a conversation with a French Catholic blog. After soliciting the responses of the African bishops’ conferences to Fiducia, he flew to Rome to share them with the pope. Francis asked him to work with Argentine Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernández of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Ambongo did, consulting the pontiff along the way, so that when the SECAM statement appeared, it carried a de facto seal of papal approval.
In other words, Ambongo found a way for the Africans to have their cassava and eat it too – opposing the pope, at least indirectly, but without seeming disloyal. That’s one of the most difficult needles to thread in Catholic life, and the artful fashion in which Ambongo pulled it off has turned heads.
39 comments:
If Cardinal Ambongo is elected pope then it would seal the victory for Pope Francis and his apparent goals. The next pope will be confronted with either tacit acceptance of homosexuality as a sacrament or complete the schism that Pope Francis has so recklessly initiated. The europeans will not be led back to orthodoxy anymore than the africans will be led into heterodoxy. As much as I like the art and history of Rome I think that great city may have outlived its usefulness and we should look for another headquarters.
When will Delusional Dan appear with a fiesta of lies wrapped in holy, holy, holies?
"CRUX’S JOHN ALLEN BELIEVES THAT CARDINAL AMBONGO COULD BE THE NEXT POPE GIVEN HIS ORTHODOX MORALITY AND SOUND CATHOLIC FAITH"
Perhaps God has raised Cardinal Ambongo to serve someday as His Pope. Should that prove true, then with great joy I would render unto "Pope Ambongo" my unconditional reverence and obedience.
"Pope Ambongo's" "orthodox morality and sound Catholic faith" would place him in line with such immediate predecessors as holy Popes Francis, as well as Benedict XVI. I am all for that.
But one "problem"...
"Pope Amongo" would often enrage right-wingers as in one way after another, he shares Pope Francis' vision in regard to the Church.
Major example:
Right-wingers have denounced the Synod as ruinous to Holy Mother Church. Conversely, Cardinal Ambongo has praised to the hilt the Synod. In line with Pope Francis, Cardinal Ambongo's has expressed powerful support for the Synod/Synodal process.
Example:
-- Cardinal Ambongo: Synodality is a new way of being Church
"At the end of this Synod, I feel first and foremost a feeling of gratitude to the Lord who allowed me to have this exceptional experience. This is the fourth Synod I have participated in, but I must say that this Synod on synodality has been exceptional."
"First, it was exceptional in its composition. It is called a Synod of Bishops, but we were not only bishops. There were lay people, women, youth, delegates from sister Churches...it really put us in the condition of listening to the Holy Spirit while also listening to one another."
"In my analysis, this Synod opens up new perspectives for our Church. It is a Synod, as its name suggests, on synodality. This means that the Church has become aware that something needs to change in its way of being."
"The main intention, the primary objective of the Synod, is about how we can become a new Church together, acquire a new way of being the Church; in our way of being, in our operating structures, in our collaboration structures."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Rome is packed with homosexuals, always has, but this may be an historical first that a majority of the hierarchy are homosexual. Too bad St. John XXIII’s decree barring them from the seminary was never implemented. If you have the stomach, google Father Marcin Dudziak. The fact he was reinstated and faithful men like Bishop Strickland are sidelined tells you all you need to know about how deep the spiritual rot goes.
"Pope Ambongo" would also face right-wing attacks due to his powerful support in regard to teachings related to climate change — teachings that Popes Francis, Benedict XVI, as well as Saint John Paul II, have/had delineated.
Cardinal Ambongo is at odds with right-wingers in regard climate change.
-- A cardinal explains the 'tragic' example of 'structural sin' that is climate change
https://www.thetablet.co.uk/blogs/1/2235/a-cardinal-explains-the-tragic-example-of-structural-sin-that-is-climate-change
Cardinal Ambongo's address in question. Excerpts:
"Climate change is a moral outrage. It is a tragic and striking example of structural sin (St John Paul II, Sollicitudo rei socialis,, facilitated by callous indifference and selfish greed."
"The climate crisis is leading to the destruction of our planet, the devastation of the lives of the poor, and the detriment of future generations.
"For example, we know that the Global North is largely responsible for the climate crisis and must contribute their fair share to address it."
"This means leading the way in emissions reductions, providing funding for climate adaptation, loss and damage, and supporting countries in the Global South to achieve just levels of development within planetary boundaries."
"We know that the most promising solutions will reflect key principles of Catholic Social Teaching, such as the common good, social justice between generations, care for our common home and the preferential option for the poor."
"The solutions to this crisis must not continue the business-as-usual approach that is responsible for creating the problem in the first place and will only enrich wealthy nations and individuals at the expense of the world’s poor."
==========
Cardinal Ambongo has expressed strong support for United Nations initiatives in regard to climate change.
"Pope Ambongo" would face many vicious right-wing attacks akin to those that Pope Francis has faced.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas and Father K Orwell LOVE lefties. Here is what Lefty, fake Catholic Joe Biden is up to:
https://dailycaller.com/2024/01/30/pro-life-activists-jury-hands-down-guilty-verdict/
Yes, 11 peaceful prolife folks face up to 11 years in prison for their peaceful protest outside of an Abortionatorium. Yet Black Lives Matters, the Marxist organization, that destroyed Black homes and businesses costing billions, walk scot-free for their "mostly peaceful protests." Obviously singing and praying are far worse!
The Biden Administration are leftwing thugs and it shames me as a Catholic that bishops and priests vote for this.
Mark Thomas and Father K Orwell LOVE lefties. Here is what Lefty, fake Catholic Joe Biden is up to:
https://dailycaller.com/2024/01/30/pro-life-activists-jury-hands-down-guilty-verdict/
Yes, 11 peaceful prolife folks face up to 11 years in prison for their peaceful protest outside of an Abortionatorium. Yet Black Lives Matters, the Marxist organization, that destroyed Black homes and businesses costing billions, walk scot-free for their "mostly peaceful protests." Obviously singing and praying are far worse!
The Biden Administration are leftwing thugs and it shames me as a Catholic that bishops and priests vote for this.
Mark Thomas and Father K Orwell LOVE lefties. Here is what Lefty, fake Catholic Joe Biden is up to:
https://dailycaller.com/2024/01/30/pro-life-activists-jury-hands-down-guilty-verdict/
Yes, 11 peaceful prolife folks face up to 11 years in prison for their peaceful protest outside of an Abortionatorium. Yet Black Lives Matters, the Marxist organization, that destroyed Black homes and businesses costing billions, walk scot-free for their "mostly peaceful protests." Obviously singing and praying are far worse!
The Biden Administration are leftwing thugs and it shames me as a Catholic that bishops and priests vote for this.
I really hope I'm wrong, but like all horrid possibilities, I don't think I am...
I seriously doubt if anyone within 1000 miles of orthodoxy will be elected as our next pope. The current placeholder has fixed the college of cardinals with a number of questionable bishops of questionable moral background, questionable intellectual pedigree and very questionable orthodoxy. The current top man in the Vatican is in the process of trying to exert even more control over the process that will choose his successor.
I sadly, regrettably and with no satisfaction, predict that the next pope will be a "company man" who has towed the Bergoglian party line and will continue the accelerated managed decline of the Church.
It's the pope that comes after him that I can get excited about. But what we are going to have to go through to get through that pope is going to hurt. Badly.
I believe that the Catholic Church is totally corrupt financially, administratively, and ethically. I believe that every cardinal and bishop are either practicing homosexuals or have participated in some way and the evidence is held against them to control them and that their subsequent enabling and protection of criminal money and sexual predation is used to add to that control. The souls they have lost or corrupted, and the enemies they have enabled for the Church and the Trinity, is enormous. This is truley evil organization.
TMJ:
The weaponization of courts against truth and decency has even reached a nation I naively believed was a holdout against western moral degeneracy: Poland.
Mariusz Dzierżawski, a prominent figure in Poland's pro-life circles, was sentenced to pay a fine and perform community service hours (at least he didn't get a Washington D.C. judge!) for the "crime" of speaking out against homosexuality, which included the citation of VERIFIABLE SCIENTIFIC STUDIES linking homosexuality to pedophilia.
Even if you can prove that you are telling the truth, it doesn't matter. If you offend the wrong pervert group, you are doomed. That judge was a man after Joe Biden's heart. When the innocent are punished, the guilty celebrate. BLM, ANTIFA and their fellow travelers are still celebrating.
Decency loses. Corruption and hatred win.
Father McDonald said...Cardinal Ambongo was able to get the entire continent of African bishops to back his quest..."
That is incorrect.
-- North African bishops depart SECAM line on Fiducia Supplicans
"The Catholic bishops of the Maghreb declared their support for the simple blessings for same-sex or divorced couples outlined in the papal declaration Fiducia Supplicans, departing from the position of their counterparts south of the Sahara."
The Regional Bishops Conference of North Africa (CERNA) consists of bishops from Algeria, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia and Western Sahara.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald said...Cardinal Ambongo was able to get the entire continent of African bishops to back his quest..."
In regard to Fiducia Supplicans:
Cardinal Stephen Brislin, spokesman for the Southern African Catholic Bishops’ Conference, said, "We in South Africa felt that obviously, it is up to each local bishop but that we would implement the document and its recommendations with blessings, prudently."
Cardinal Brislin noted that the Southern African bishops’ conference position is “certainly not a criticism of [other African bishops], as they must just see and assess their own particular situations."
The article from which I quoted above added that "responses to the papal declaration reflect the vast cultural and religious diversity of Africa, suggesting that for the continent there will be no one 'African position' in regard to Fiducia Supplicans."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
It is SECAM: The Symposium of Episcopal Conferences of Africa and Madagascar (SECAM)
Our great prevaricator (MT) can’t shut up
Father McDonald said..."In fact, Cardinal Ambongo forced Pope Francis to allow Africa to have a dispensation from blessing sodomy and the couples who glory in it. Cardinal Ambongo was able to get the entire continent of African bishops to back his quest...not in my lifetime or in anyone’s lifetime since the Great Schism in 1054, has an entire continent threatened to separate from the pope due to the pope’s novel new teaching on blessing couples engaged in public sin."
Father McDonald, if we are to believe Cardinal Ambongo (which, I do), then he did not force anything upon Pope Francis. The Cardinal did not force the Vicar of Christ to "back down."
Cardinal Ambongo did not propose that "an entire continent threatened to separate from the pope due to the pope’s novel new teaching on blessing couples engaged in public sin."
The world deals in threats and power. Conversely, sons and daughters of Holy Mother Church are called to treat each other in holy, charitable fashion.
Based upon Cardinal Ambongo's description of recent events related to Fiducia Supplicans, that is what happened. Cardinal Ambongo interacted in holy, charitable fashion with Pope Francis, as well as Cardinal Fernández. The three brothers in Jesus Christ treated each other with respect.
They did not threaten each other. They did not pressure each other. Nobody involved in their meetings with each other was forced to "back down." Instead, they handled the situation in serene fashion. They exhibited brotherly love toward each other.
The bottom line is that Cardinal Ambongo reiterated his "unwavering" communion with Pope Francis. Cardinal Ambongo made it clear that Fiducia Supplicans is orthodox.
Pope Francis/Cardinal Ambongo/Cardinal Fernández agreed in charitable fashion that each bishop in Africa will discern as to how best to handle Fiducia Supplicans.
For example, throughout Africa, several bishops have decided to implement Fiducia Supplicans.
Father McDonald, thank you. Peace to you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald said..."It is SECAM: The Symposium of Episcopal Conferences of Africa and Madagascar (SECAM)"
Yes.
Father, thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Jerome Merwick,
At some point there may be violent pushback. I have always said that the Left will provoke another Civil War.
As a retired attorney, I am shocked that the Supreme Court has not intervened in some of the more egregious cases and disciplined some of the loonier federal judges. Their failure to do so has caused normal folks to lose respect for the judicial system. Then you have low intelligence justices like Sotomayor aka The Wide Latina telling the public she is “traumatized” by recent Court decisions she disagrees with, but apparently she is not traumatized when leftwing goons show up at the homes of conservative justices nor when nutcases in her Party accuse men like Kavanaugh of rape. If she did not have double standards she would have no standards at all. Of course craven members of our hierarchy never call them out.
Pope Francis, as well as Cardinals Ambongo, and Fernández, have demonstrated that the Catholic Way works. The Catholic Way is that of love and peace. The Church's ancient description of the Pope/Church of Rome is that they "preside in love."
In regard to Fiducia Supplicans, Pope Francis/Rome have presided in love.
It is unimaginable that, as certain folks have claimed, that Cardinal Ambongo imposed his will by having "forced" (supposedly) the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis, to have "backed down."
Such a worldly notion presents Cardinal Ambongo as an arrogant bully. By all appearances, that does not represent Cardinal Ambongo.
Besides, Cardinal Ambongo's has testified that he, Pope Francis, as well as Cardinal Fernández, interacted with each other in holy charitable fashion. Cardinal Ambongo has shattered the false narrative that has, in effect, portrayed him as an arrogant bully.
Again, the way of charity and peace is the Catholic Way. Deo gratias that in regard to Fiducia Supplicans, that has been the way of Pope Francis, as well as Cardinals Fernández, and Ambongo.
Cardinal Ambongo has declared that "calm" has swept the Faithful of Africa. He has reiterated his, as well as the Church in Africa's, "unwavering attachment" to Pope Francis.
What a beautiful ending to the holy, peaceful manner in which Pope Francis, as well as Cardinals Fernández, and Ambongo, have worked together.
Give me the Catholic Way — the way of God.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT , thanks! That really gave me a belly laugh!
Father McDonald, thank you for having posted my comments.
Father, I realize that you, as well as my many detractors here, view my comments as pathetic jokes. Oh, well. That is okay. I am aware that compared to one person after another on earth, I am a joke, as well as pathetic sinner.
But I enjoy discussing Catholicism/Church-related news. My comments, as pathetic as they may be, are sincere.
The unfortunate thing is that I have found it impossible to have dialogued in charity with certain folks here. Not are certain folks here vicious insult artists, but they demand that everybody must march in lockstep with their every opinion.
Anyway, Father, thank you as always for having allowed me to post comments to your great blog.
Speaking of laughter: I am certain that, people who are blessed to, if you will, hang around with you, enjoy much laughter as the result of your great sense of humor. More important, they are blessed spiritually as they are with God's holy priest.
Father McDonald, Deo gratias for your lengthy, holy service to God and His True Church.
In the meantime, I am sure that I will keep you, as well as my detractors here, laughing.
:-)
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT, my biggest concern with your hyper-papalism is that it is tied to what has made spiritual, physical and sexual abuse the widespread scandal that it is. Blind obedience and blind trust of human beings, be it the pope or your grocer can lead to believing anything they tell you. The problem this papacy has brought to light, even for the most ardent of ultra montane papal watchers. We need to be sure that every aspect of the Catholic Church is clearly taught, out in the open and discernible by the least to the greatest and no one has an inside track on new teachings or development of doctrine that morphs it into something that it isn’t.
Pastoral theology is precisely that, pastoral and often it should be within the secrecy of the confessional and never turned into a doctrine.
I left out a part of my thought with this sentence: “The problem this papacy has brought to light, even for… is that the church needs checks and balances all bishops to include the Bishop of Rome. If a pope opens the door to heterodoxy in doctrine or religious practice contradicting doctrine and canon law, there must be a way to show that he has sone so and to call him out on it. Two examples that could have used checks and balances are the footnote in an enclyical that allows Holy Communion for those living in sin and the other is the silliness of making into a doctrine informal blessings for the same. But make no mistake, take seriously what Pope Francis says about development of doctrine. We have a beginning now with the novel blessings of those living in public sin that can develop into full-blown public liturgies for the good that adultery and fornication of whatever kind can bring to couples and more than couples.
Father McDonald, thank you for your reply.
In regard to my "hyper-papalism...Blind obedience and blind trust..."
Father, I adhere to Holy Mother Church's teachings related to Her Papacy. What I am supposed to do when I have encounter such countless examples as the following:
=========
-- Vatican I: "For in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been preserved unblemished..."
-- Vatican II: "This loyal submission of the will and intellect must be given, in a special way, to the authentic authority of the Roman pontiff, even when he does not speak ex cathedra, in such wise, indeed, that his supreme teaching authority be acknowledged with respect and sincere assent be given to decisions made by him."
-- Pope Venerable Pius XII: "Christ enlightens His whole Church...It is He who imparts the light of faith to believers; it is He who enriches pastors and teachers and above all His Vicar on earth with the supernatural gifts of knowledge, understanding and wisdom..."
-- Pope Leo XIII: "Hence those remarkable expressions of the ancients concerning St. Peter, which most clearly set forth the fact that he was placed in the highest degree of dignity and authority."
"They frequently call him "the Prince of the College of the Disciples; the Prince of the holy Apostles; the leader of that choir; the mouthpiece of all the Apostles; the head of that family; the ruler of the whole world; the first of the Apostles; the safeguard of the Church."
-- Pope Benedict XVI, 2013 A.D., final address to Cardinals: "Among you is the future pope, to whom I promise my unconditional reverence and obedience."
============
Father McDonald, if I am "guilty" of "hyper-papalism, blind obedience and trust," then all of the above references are examples of "hyper-papalism."
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father, the issue in regard to Fiducia Supplicans is whether said declaration is orthodox.
The Church guarantees that thanks to the promise of Jesus Christ, the Roman Pontiff is protected from teaching error(s) to the Faithful. Via Holy Mother Church, we are assured that Fiducia Supplicans is orthodox. I am amazed that there are Catholics who refuse to accept that.
Why would a Catholic not believe the Church when She has assured us that the Apostolic See has always preserved immaculate the Catholic Religion?
In addition, even Cardinal Ambongo/the SECAM letter has acknowledged that Fiducia Supplicans upholds Church teaching. He acknowledged also that each bishop in Africa is free to implement Fiducia Supplicans.
Several bishops throughout Africa have declared that they will implement Fiducia Supplicans.
The implementation of Fiducia Supplicans is underway in Africa, as well as throughout the world.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Pope Adrian VI (1459-1523)
If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can err even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgement or decretal. In truth, many Roman pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was Pope John XXII († 1334).” (Quaest. in IV Sent.; quoted in Viollet, Papal Infallibility and the Syllabus, 1908).
I think if Pope Adrian was still around, he would add Pope Francis to the list. But watch for our resident papalotor to challenged Pope Adrian's statement.
Oh TJM, you, you, you...INSULT ARTIST!
Jerome Merwick,
Guilty as charged! LOL!
TJM, I nominate you for the Southern Orders Blog Don Rickles award!
Queue the La Virgen de la Macarena song. 😉
"The unfortunate thing is that I have found it impossible to have dialogued in charity with certain folks here. Not are certain folks here vicious insult artists, but they demand that everybody must march in lockstep with their every opinion."
From what I read on these posts, I can't find any examples of demands for "lockstep thinking." I think whoever Mr. Thomas really is, he needs to own up to the reality that there are some things that no Catholic can accept and I can affirm that I DO see quite a bit of that sentiment on these pages. Bully for the faithful who hold fast. The left wing mind has literal tolerance for moral absolutes.
Make that LITTLE tolerance for moral absolutes.
Seamus Malone said..."From what I read on these posts, I can't find any examples of demands for "lockstep thinking."
That is your opinion. You are entitled to that. Not a problem.
Anyway, it is glaringly obvious that certain folks here have resorted to vicious responses whenever they have encountered others, such as I, who have not marched in lockstep with their views. That is undeniable. But you have disagreed with my comment in question. Again, that is fine with me.
Mister Malone, I wish you and your family peace and good health.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Seamus Malone said..."I think whoever Mr. Thomas really is, he needs to own up to the reality that there are some things that no Catholic can accept and I can affirm that I DO see quite a bit of that sentiment on these pages. Bully for the faithful who hold fast."
I understand. That is why, for example, I hold fast to Holy Mother Church's beautiful, unwavering teachings in regard to Her wonderful Papacy.
Examples:
-- Vatican I: "For in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been preserved unblemished..."
-- Pope Venerable Pius XII: "Christ enlightens His whole Church...It is He who imparts the light of faith to believers; it is He who enriches pastors and teachers and above all His Vicar on earth with the supernatural gifts of knowledge, understanding and wisdom..."
-- Pope Leo XIII: "Hence those remarkable expressions of the ancients concerning St. Peter, which most clearly set forth the fact that he was placed in the highest degree of dignity and authority."
"They frequently call him "the Prince of the College of the Disciples; the Prince of the holy Apostles; the leader of that choir; the mouthpiece of all the Apostles; the head of that family; the ruler of the whole world; the first of the Apostles; the safeguard of the Church."
===========
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT,
Review your own posts, then criticize others
Seamus Malone said..."From what I read on these posts, I can't find any examples of demands for "lockstep thinking."
Mister Malone, to follow up in regard to the above: I, again, respect that you are entitled to your opinion. But I am amazed that you seem to be unaware as to the following:
There are intolerant folks here who, upset that certain folks have not marched in lockstep with their (the intolerant folks') opinions, have called upon Father McDonald to ban the nonconformists, if you will, from his blog.
Said intolerant folks have even threatened to abandon Father McDonald's blog as Father has permitted the "nonconformists" in question to comment here.
Mister Malone, you are unaware of that. Really? Wow! But okay.
Anyway, Father McDonald has responded: Simple solution: If one does not care for another's comments/opinions, then do not read, or respond, to said person's comments/opinions.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT is intolerant of Faith and Reason and lacks self awareness
MT,
No Apologia Pro Vita Sua?
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