Pre-Vatican II and Post Vatican II:
The video below is a recent celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass by Cardinal Burke in France.
I have always said and still believe that the reform of the Mass as highlighted by Sacrosanctum Concilium was to deal with the very complicated Solemn Pontifical Mass which Cardinal Burke celebrates in the video below.
IT’S TOO MUCH!
With that said, your normal pre-Vatican II parish’s low and High Mass embody noble simplicity. The Solemn Sung Mass, more complicated, needs/needed some cleaning up without changing the whole thing.
Now for the feminization of the modern Mass.
By that, those who rightly point it out, it means the personal affectivity of the priest during the Mass facilitated by him facing the people with various antics incorporated into the Mass not by virtue of the rubrics but rather the personality and desires of the priest.
Feminization of the priest, not by rubrics, but free-wheeling affectivity of actions is the problem, not beautiful, lavish vestments, great chanting, elaborate decorations and use of flowers, fabric and greenery and minuet-like choreography. All these are feminine and cater to the feminine mystic and that the Church is both male and female, each with their own charisms.
For example, Msgr. Steven Rossetti, who treated various sexual psychosis of priests, at a facility in Washington, DC, describes the affectivity of the priest during the Mass as feminine. By this, he means the priest facing the congregation, constantly establishing eye contact, communicating openness, hospitality and availability. Availability in a sexual sense, either to men or women. Wide open arms at the greetings and each time the rubric asks for extended hands. Of course, even the simplified rubrics of the reformed Mass do not recommend this, it was liturgists, themselves into exaggerated affectivity, big signs, like bodily gestures, real bread, lots of water, a lot of wine, etc who encouraged this feminization.
In the Traditional Latin Mass, choreographed in a very strict way by the rubrics which could not be interpreted, everything done by the body of the priest was sober and mechanical, and march like, very military, very masculine. The priest, during the liturgy, when required to turn and face the congregation, was not to extend his arms beyond the width of his outer shoulders. His eyes are to be downcast and not looking directly at the congregation. This is symbolic of the masculine militant mystic that I am not available to you in a sexual sense and I am about the Lord’s work.
At any rate, I am glad that there was a reform of the Pontifical High Mass, although the foundation of the liturgy, its altar, its architecture, its language did not need a complete overhaul, just the superfluous:
14 comments:
The notion that "Wide open arms at the greetings and each time the rubric asks for extended hands" suggests, "Availability in a sexual sense, either to men or women" is more nonsense.
Did you ever see a picture of a father or mother greeting a son or daughter returning from deployment overseas in a war zone with wide open arms? I have. The thought that this "wide open arms" greeting is somehow a signal to the child that the parent is sexually available is rather perverse.
Did you ever see small children at a family gathering run toward each other with wide open arms? I have, and there is no sexual availability being communicated.
As for the military being masculine, well, that's another bit of nonsense. The US Military Academy at West Point is 76% male and 24% female. The number of female generals and admirals has doubled since 2000. Admiral Lisa Franchetti has recently become the first female member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as she now serves as the head of the US Navy.
Well, Biden’s perverts have downgraded the military considerably, male officers pretending to be women, wearing dresses and make-up. A real fighting machine that will strike fear into our enemies. Your kind of “men”, Father K Orwell!
Catching up.....I went to the earlier, similar post first and commented there.
I believe my comments from that post apply here.
I don't generally agree with the feminine characterization.
As mentioned, and to me, the TLM appeals to masculine emotions with the priest LEADING the faithful....in this case, to the New Jerusalem.
The NO, to me, appeals more greatly to feminine emotions of togetherness and belonging.
Has Roman divine worship been feminized by some? Probably so.
Have some tried to maintain a masculine stance when serving the liturgy? Without question.
Are exaggerated gestures and more water/wine etc. an abuse, pseudo-meaningful, or just absurd to witness? I guess it depends on the one delivering such an experience and the extent to which it is delivered genuinely. Even if genuine, it still looks goofy to my eye.
Unattractive/ugly structures, vestiture, hymnography etc. is, to me, a self inflicted wound.
Similar to Divine Liturgy, the TLM moves many in that "Put me in coach" sort of way. Perhaps some in Roman circles, PF included, shouldn't be so quick to dismiss young people as devoted adherents, or the larger number of seminarians, comparitavely speaking.
I love you, but this is a stretch. 😂
ByzRus,
It takes an Eastern Rite Catholic to see what some Latins cannot. Very well done!
Fr. MJK, the vast majority of priests who have held their arms wide open at greetings and such have been, in my experience, more effeminate and "off" than other priests. It's hardly been comparable to a father opening up his arms to wrap his child in a big hug. More like the priest is doing the first move in an interpretive dance.
N- Your comment makes me wonder why you might be so receptive to seeing "arms wide open" as signs of an "effeminate and 'off'" priest...
Fr. MJK - It was probably the limp wrists, sing-songy voice, and general solipsism.
Note that I never said effeminate/off because "arms wide open". After all, correlation =/= causation. Fr. MJK choose to project that reading onto my words
Old Nick - "...the vast majority of priests who have held their arms wide open at greetings and such have been, in my experience, more effeminate and "off" than other priests."
I just wondered why you were so perceptive when it comes to the "effeminate and off" kinda guy. And I didn't suggest a cause/relationship.
Fr. MJK, you most certainly did suggest a relationship. "Seeing 'arms wide open' as signs of an effeminate and off priest" does exactly that.
I wouldn't say I have any notable perception for this; rather, it has occasionally been flamingly obvious (no pun intended). I tend to try to ignore the mannerisms of Mass celebrants, which is blessedly easier to do when Mass is celebrated ad orientem.
Old Nick - Well, it seems to me that, for whatever reason, have a "notable perception for this."
Fr K “Abortion is Healthcare” should look in the mirror - he who excuses himself, accuses himself
TJM - You are a liar and everyone here knows it.
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