1. No socializing in the church before or after Mass or looking backwards to talk, praying before the tabernacle is encouraged but silence mandated
2. Recommended no singing or speaking, so the best option appears for the priest not to face the congregation, speak in a low voice and only have a server responding on behalf of the laity. For those who long for spirit of Vatican II, recorded Gregorian Chant by well trained scholas can be played over the PA by a minister of technology for the propers and the parts of the Mass--how kool would that be?
3. Churches in the round create health risks, so straight pews directly to the altar, not toward each other need to be restored sparing no expense to do so for health reasons
4. No sign of peace
5. No common chalice and less need for EMHC.
6. Not sure how masks could be seen as a restoration in continuity, although some orders of nuns used to cover their face when they went to Holy Communion as I recall.
I continue to be most amazed at how amazingly prophetic I was about the germ spreading, epidemic causing and pandemic spreading common chalice, for decades now.
Even bishops and priests concelebrating Mass now intinct their Host rather than the deadly drinking one after the other and the Host is on the altar next to the chalice rather than given to them during the Agnus Dei, all great reforms to say the least.
36 comments:
"I continue to be amazed at how prophetic I was about the germ spreading, epidemic causing and pandemic spreading common chalice, for decades now.
I'm amazed that you keep bringing this up when it is 100% untrue.
Take photos of your next Mass, video would be better, of the common chalice in use and you purifying it and drinking the ablutions, if you aren’t afraid of removing your mask. That would truly be amazing for all of us.
Like most places we have not used the common cup since the pandemic began.
It is 100% untrue that use of the common cup has spread epidemics/pandemics.
Yet, you keep insisting that it has.
Evidence?
There is no evidence that ex-pope Benedict supported many of the things you have listed. You’re even crazy or dishonest (or both).
And God is not using the pandemic to instigate liturgical reforms. That’s just offensive.
It's not "even" crazy, its "either" crazy or dishonest. I'll pick the first.
And you must be as Gnostic as I am about what God does and doesn't do, which is just offensive too. And your direct line unknown to everyone else?
But you are wrong, Pope Benedict certainly desired that the EF influence the current OF and that leading to a new one missal that is renewal in continuity.
I meant to refer to you by your first name in Italian: Nasone.
Interesting too, that your comment and FrMJK's comment arrived at the same time which happens with him and other names one associates with him. Interesting, no?
There you go, corrected below:
There is no evidence that ex-pope Benedict supported many of the things you have listed. You’re either crazy or dishonest (or both).
Not really, it’s called coincidence.
As you’ve been told several times I AM NOT FATHER K.
However we all think you are behind the racist Trump obsessed TJM.
“Pope Benedict certainly desired that the EF influence the current OF and that leading to a new one missal that is renewal in continuity.”
Not quite, ex-pope Benedict hopes that the two forms would influence each others development - not merely a one way street.
Where does he say he wanted these developments to lead to a new missal?
Anyway the above does not translate into all the items you listed.
Father McDonald:
Yes, it is "beating a dead horse," but:
-- nobody does it better than you;
-- it's awfully entertaining;
-- and I think I just saw it twitch! Whack it again!
😂😂😂
Well, I'm glad you are not beating a "live" horse!
"Father" Kavanaugh,
Quit repeating the left-wing lies. Anyone in medicine will tell you it is an absolutely idiotic idea to share the common cup at ANY time. I thought you were part of the "Party of Science." I know you will find some outcome determinative study to support your delusion.
Big Nose K,
I have found in my experience that those that call others racist are the racists. You also suffer from TDS.
The Archdiocese of Philadelphia, in their reopening directives, notes the Sign of Peace as being suspended (I don't remember the exact wording). That sounds like an opening to reinstate at some point in the future. Though it rarely affects me anymore, I was hoping to be rid of that useless, invasive gesture once and for all. I cannot imagine I'm alone thinking that way. The NO is already tedious enough without forced contact or, not being receptive to someone's hand if I decide not to participate. The interim though now suspended bobble head gesture is just as useless.
"forced contact"
Heaven forbid that a person attending Mass should actually be made to have contact with another person at some point during the Eucharist.
If you "Vant To Be Left Alone" at Mass, build a private oratory, pay for a priest chaplain, and be happy with your unnatural liturgical isolation.
I remember my grandmother telling me that the SSCM nuns at her then parish in Hazleton PA veiled their faces after receiving. I'm sure at the time, people looked at that practice with awe. I likely would have as well.
"Vant To Be Left Alone". I don't get it....some kind of slur?
I don't want peoples germs. I don't want their colds, flu, COVID whatever. My risk factors and common sense lead me there. As a congregation, we are inherently at peace. Why is reinforcement necessary? In the Christian East, the peace originates at the altar with a blessing from the priest. You bow, receive the blessing and in the Ruthenian Church, the custom is to cross yourself when responding "And with your spirit". In other Orthodox Churches, Russian for example, you just bow your head and receive the blessing.
I forgot my manners, Anon. Thank you for showing where I erred. Thankfully, we have the Keyboard Warriors such as yourself ready and willing to point out perceived unnatural liturgical tendencies, among many, many other things. Thank you again.
Biz any time. Be assured of that.
I have very mixed feelings about the sign of peace. Not being a perfect human, when I spend an entire mass having my pew kicked by an out of control child, and struggling like crazy to control my VERY nasty thoughts about said child, I can assure you the last thing I am going to want to wish the mother who is oblivious to all of this is PEACE. It just seems like one more opportunity to "fail" right before Communion.
One "failed" upon entering the church with the idea "This Is About Me And God And No one Else And God Help The Child And The Child's Parent Who Disturbs My Private Relationship With Jesus."
If you want that, build an oratory, hire a priest/chaplain, and be completely content in your unnatural liturgical isolation.
How original Anonymous! You are like "Canned Music". Perhaps you should break the tape...look within yourself and find the beauty of your " True Song" in Jesus Christ.
Happy Independence Day....you have just given me another freedom to be grateful for!
'Heaven forbid that a person attending Mass should actually be made to have contact with another person at some point during the Eucharist' (Anonymous-the-usual-suspect).
Quite right! I have attended Mass in the EF, the OF and the Byzantine rite and have never 'been made' (i.e. compelled) to touch another person.
The leftist Parallel Church has ALSO used COVID 19 to advance their goals, especially in these two areas:
1). An almost eager willingness to stop having Mass available to the public
2). A despotic insistence of Communion in the Hand only (for purported "health concerns:). This is across the board in Great Britain.
I'll tell ya what "beating a dead horse is"---trying to get law and order in Georgia's capital city. Early this morning, about 100 dark-clothed goons attacked the headquarters of the Georgia Dept. of Public Safety---the state patrol and other law enforcement agencies. Bricks, firecrackers and Molotov cocktails thrown and spray painted graffiti like "KKK". Of course at that hour, you would not have expected many public safety personnel there but the governor could have very well been there (understandably he has had to spend a lot of time there of late). No one arrested (of course it would have been easy to disperse at that hour). In the meanwhile, an 8 year-old shot and killed by the Wendys where we had the riot 2 weeks ago and 23 others wounded overnight. But since police were not behind any of the shootings, there most likely will not be any protests. And the culture of out of wedlock births, which fuels much of the crime in this city, will continue...maybe time to move? The mountains of north Georgia? The coast? Any suggestions?
Not New York.....
John Nolan - no one compels you to have contact with anybody else in the OF either.
You nailed it Anonymous. Though we are forbidden from saying WHAT that culture is for out-of-wedlock births, we all know. It is a culture that grows up toxic. It is an oversexed culture with an obsessive focus on all things erotic. It is a culture where children aren't allowed to be innocent as soon as they can talk. It is a culture that, unfortunately, focuses on hatred for law enforcement and just about any other legal authority. You'll note that I said it is a CULTURE. It is not a race, although one race dominates that culture. Not all members of that race share the culture, but the vast majority seem to. And if you meet members of that race who did NOT grow up in America, they don't share the same toxic cultural traits. Somehow in America, we have created a self-destructive, subculture that encapsulates less than 14% of our population and this culture largely has been trained to hate and blame white people for everything. And now a bunch of spoiled white students, most of whom have never had to practice any kind of responsibility or discipline, are enabling the rage of this sick culture by destroying everything and shouting their nonsense over the voices of reason. I have very little hope for it getting any better either.
That's exactly what John Nolan said....
And sorry to even be here...they will remain toxic because they WANT TO. These protests are not for the purpose of bringing attention to injustice and therefore could be open to the possibility of healing. NO. They want REVENGE and total DOMINATION. And these politically correct idiots want to give it to them. They will settle for nothing less than completely enslaving white culture. There will never be any healing because they choose not to heal.
They indeed are not (the protests) for the purpose of bringing attention to injustice as if they were, instead of protesting isolated cases of police brutality, they would focus, say, on the 28 people shot in Atlanta in less than 24 hours (yes, as in the city, not the larger metro area)---none of the 28, incidentally, shot by police. Or the thousands of blacks murdered in Georgia's abortion mills every year (far out of proportion to their population in this state). But...the news media have not reported any planned protests for such occasions. Heck, no one stopping them from organizing such protests but hey, it always makes for more drama when the protest is about police brutality. Police were so overwhelmed here on Saturday that for a time, some no-gooders blocked Peachtree Road, the main artery leading to our Buckhead section (on which both Atlanta's Catholic and Episcopal cathedrals are located), where Peachtree crosses 85 at southern edge of Buckhead, setting off fireworks and driving in circles on the bridge, leaving a lot of treadmarks. No arrests as far as I know. I see one of the earlier bloggers said it would not be a good idea for me to move to new York, so maybe north Georgia mountains would be more quiet, Lake Oconee, Lake Hartwell---lots of choices I guess!
Yes over the weekend in New York the family oriented residential area I live in became a war zone with illegal fireworks in the park.....mobs of people not from the neighborhood which morphed into a black vs white take down starting at around 6:00AM and after the cops came and restored order, still ended with a stabbing an hour later right by our local supermarket a block and a half away. NEVER have we seen anything like this in our neighborhoods history. There will be a lot of empty apartments soon.
I have no dog in this fight, but I have to agree with ByzRC in that I find that shaking everybody's hands during the 'Sign of Peace' to be irritating and intrusive. My family feels the same way, so we are not alone. I am willing to bet that MOST people find this gesture to be intrusive. If this practice goes to the wayside as a result of this pandemic, then good riddance.
I guess the Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox should not be receiving Holy Communion. The spoon could be a source of contagion for us.
Besides, we don't need the Precious Blood right?
Didn't the Lord say,"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life within you"?
The teaching of concomitance takes care of that, right?
It takes precedence over the Lord's teaching in John 6, right?
No, it doesn't.
Go ahead and call me a utaquist. But Jan Hus and his minions denied the Real Presence, I do not.
Please don't say that Holy Communion
in the Body of the Lord alone is tradition in the Latin Church. It's true that banning the Chalice for the laity has been universal for 800 years, but Sacred Tradition goes back before Trent and as well as the deprivation of the Chalice for the laity.
The practice of Holy Communion in one species is in direct opposition to the Lord's command, "Take this, all of you and drink it..."
Regarding the fact that the Chalice can be accidentally spilled Our Lord, the divine Son of God, chose to use bread and wine to become His true and precious Body and Blood. He knew there would be accidents; spilling and particles falling to the floor, yet He chose these elements for Communion in His Body and Blood. Why didn't the Lord chose other less accident prone elements?
Certainly, with reverence and deep devotion we try to avoid spilling and particles, but these happen inadvertently. Our Lord knew these things would happen but He trusted us mortals anyway. Another sacrifice He made for us
But, but, but...at the Last Supper, Jesus was speaking time the new and first priests about THEIR consumption of the Holocaust under both firms to complete the sacrifice. He wasn’t speaking to laymen. Is that what you thought? Of course priests must fulfill this command of our Lord to complete the sacrifice. It isn’t required of the laity since He wasn’t speaking to them.
Post a Comment