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Wednesday, July 15, 2020

SHOULD THE CHURCH CONTINUE TO KOWTOW TO THE STATE AS IT CONCERNS THE CHURCH AS BEING NON ESSENTIAL DURING THE COVID-10 PANDEMONIUM?


Basically, the Church in California and perhaps elsewhere will be told once again by the government that the Church along with a list of other "businesses" is non essential. Walmart, grocery stores, liquor stores, these are essential of course, but not the Church that offers The Bread of Life, eternal life to those who worthily receive our Lord's crucified and risen, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Of course, the Church must practice good health guidelines. Yes, we need to limit the number of people allowed at a particular Mass and the law of obligation to attend Mass can be relaxed. People can be mandated by the Church to wear masks, physical distance and the like.


And of course, the bishops could mandate the EF Low Mass where no one speaks a word as they physical distance in their pews and it is not necessary to hear the priest, so he does not aerosolize the air with is COVID-19 breath and besides that, he has his back to the people that helps flatten the curve. Isn't that better than canceling public Masses? And outdoor Masses in 110 degrees weather, that is more lethal than Covid-19! Who are these bishops trying to kid?

Shouldn't bishops risk prison to make sure their Church's are open despite what the Government mandates?????? Where are today's martyr bishops?

California Churches kowtow to the State and agree with them, the Church is non essential:

 

In wake of California order, July 14, amid fresh COVID surge, just before 11pm local time, US’ largest diocese (5 million-member LA arch.) executes “immediate” re-shutdown of all indoor worship, while underscoring that any & all outside liturgy/sacraments remain “allowed and encouraged”:
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34 comments:

ByzRC said...

We clearly are treading a fine line regarding over-reach. Agree, to the extent the Church adopts and enforces precautionary measures, the risk of attending should be no greater than that assumed when shopping for groceries/WalMart etc.

You rightly note that Low Mass would solve several "problems" however, I do not practically see how to circumvent the obvious mindset issue that we've discussed so many times in addition to the training issue for those who aren't familiar with the EF. Last, I do not see how one would circumvent the problem of willingness, those that refuse to celebrate the EF despite the orders of their ordinary.

Anonymous said...

Bee here:

I'm beginning to believe the bishops' actions of severe shutdowns and severe restrictions when churches are open have more to do with liability issues than anything else. I am thinking they are being advised by lawyers that the best defense for potential wrongful death or negligence lawsuits are strict and rigorous requirements that demonstrate due diligence.

God bless.
Bee

Anonymous said...

Bee here:

But Father, wouldn't the COVID-19 spreading priest aerosolize the air at the altar during the consecration, thereby spreading the virus to any hosts consecrated there, and then give everyone receiving Communion a virus infected host?

OH NO!! :-)

God bless.
Bee

Fr. Michael Kavanaugh said...

It is not "kowtowing" to act responsibly with the safety and well-being of the people in mind.

Would a church "kowtow" to a government order to shut the building down if the government inspector found that the foundation was unsafe?

We learned this morning that the four of the five Franciscan friars in our parishes in Columbus, Georgia, have tested positive and have Covid-19. Did they pass on the infection to members of their congregations? Time will tell.

People can keep playing with this virus all they want. But we've all read the reports of the "Covidiots" who went their merry way until they were infected - and died.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

God heal them and theirs. Hopefully and unlike the Cathedral COVID-19 diaconate hysteria, we will hear too about when they get well and no one in the parish died from their contagion. Fr. O’Connell in Columbus was as good as dead at the beginning of the pandemic but no word on his recovery!

Fear mongers will get their just reward.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Were they taking precautions like celebrating the EF Mas? And of course the fear mongers report positive cases as a death sentence for all. No concern for those since the early 70’s who got seriously ill with colds and flu viruses from the epidemic causing common chalice.6

Snark Flummox said...

All of this talk of fear mongering is nothing less than an attack on our government, and when you attack the globalists and the Covid-19 people, you are attacking Pope Francis, their great ally. Shame, shame, shame on you!

Pax,

Snark Flummox

Anonymous said...

Father Kavanaugh is being manipulated by the leftwing loon media which has no problem with Antifa and BLM protesting non stop in vast numbers, but Churches, where people barely spend an hour a week can’t operate. He’s a broken liberal record. Fyi the vast numbers who test positive are asymptomatic and do just fine.

Anonymous said...

I agree that the Church should be classified as essential, I do think that there was a bit of politics in having them closed. I also think that having the TLM, EF Low Mass with only the priest consuming the Eucharist would be ideal. My problem is that just as the political activist can put the Church at a disadvantage, priests and parish councils also can politicize the issue. They can use the China virus to do what they want rather than do what is required.

Anonymous said...

Bee here:

Anecdotally speaking, at the nursing home I was visiting (before the COVID lockdowns began), there were residents who caught it and died. But just as many have had it and recovered without apparent long term affects. And one resident who is 102 years old tested positive for the virus but was asymptomatic. She never got sick. That's been true of several other residents as well. Two of the residents who are "wanderers" (they have dementia and won't stay confined to their rooms) have not tested positive ever.

So go figure...

God bless.
Bee

Anonymous said...

Bee here:

And to think Fr. Kavanaugh, in happier times, shares the communion cup with abandon...

God bless.
Bee

Fr. Michael Kavanaugh said...

No one remembers the refrigerated trucks parked outside New York hospitals and funeral homes, do they?

No one remembers ambulances in hours long lines waiting to see if a place in a hospital could be found for a severely ill patient, do they?

No one remembers countries that have had the best track record in containing the coronavirus and how they accomplshed it, do they? They didn't have a leader who lied to them, who made absurd claims about the virus and war weather, who suggested ingesting disinfectants, and who refused to wear a mask in public.

Denmark 260 deaths
Iceland 8 deaths
Finland 49 deaths
Germany 2,673 deaths
New Zealand 4 deaths
Norway 98 deaths
Taiwan 6 deaths

Their leaders took action on all fronts, at all levels. They didn't whine about masks and the closing of ALL public gatherings. One more thing - these countries are all led by women.

No one seems to care about anything other than death, do they? Yet we are learning of the other severe impacts of the virus. "Dr. Igor Koralnik, chief of neuro-infectious diseases at Northwestern Medicine, reviewed current scientific literature and found about half of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 had neurological complications, such as dizziness, decreased alertness, difficulty concentrating, disorders of smell and taste, seizures, strokes, weakness and muscle pain."

It's getting worse. But we can contain the virus if we have the will to do so.

By the way, a while back India was praised as a culture in which the sick stayed home, leading to a relatively low infection rate. Well, India has reimposed lockdowns because, in fact, people weren't staying home. India has 968,117 cases and 24,915 deaths. It is now has the third highest number of cases of all countries.

Victor said...

Fr. I am getting tired of nonsense from followers of the Covid-19 religion. All the countries you list have different populations. To compare them you need an obvious standard, such as deaths per million:

Denmark 105
Iceland 29
Finland 59
Germany 109
New Zealand 4
Norway 47
Taiwan 6

They also have different demographics making them hard to compare (i.e age, pre-existing medical conditions, etc) Indeed, Florida is well known for older retired people living there, a good target for mortality. Americans are generally obese, in poor physical shape, eating poor food, inviting high blood pressure, diabetes 2, and heart disease to rocket up mortality rates.

But nevertheless, compare these deaths per million:

Belgium 844
UK 662
Spain 579
France 460
Italy 579
USA 422
Canada 233

As for the new Covid-19 religion:

https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202005291079454699-how-covid-19-became-britains-newest-religion/





Anonymous said...

Thanks Father Kavanaugh for reminding us what a terrible job Cuomo and DeBlasio have done in New York!

The media in this country is a corrupt, left-wing joke. New York which is smaller in population than either Texas or Florida has 10 times more deaths than either of those states. The facts are the virus is not as virulent noq, ERs are not overwhelmed, and the only deaths, with perhaps a few outliers, are people with serious co-morbidities.

President Trump took immediate action while the corrupt Democratic Party was pursing a bogus impeachment, according to Alan Dershowitz (He is not quite as sharp as Father Kavanaugh is on constitutional matters), by barring flights in and out of China and was attacked by China Joe Biden and Schumer for being racist and xenophobic.

Father Kavanaugh should concern himself with the spiritual welfare of Catholics and let the laity deal with the corporal aspects.

Anonymous said...

Vic, the median age in Florida is 42.2. Like many others you are operating on your "well known" preconceptions rather than the facts.

Unknown said...

Sophia here
The 2 links below may be of interest:

Response to SARS-Cov-2 can be as deadly (or even more so) as the illness.

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/suicide-overdose-deaths-coronavirus-will-have-indirect-fatalities

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question

Anonymous said...

With the resurgence of the virus and the continuing failure of leadership in the White House, the focus of our efforts should be on closing liquor stores rather than using their opening as an excuse to put elderly church goers at risk of contracting the virus.

Bobby said...

Listen. Leave the dispensations in place for those who feel vulnerable going to Mass. Let each priest determine whether he wants to take the risk of having Mass. Let each church goer determine if it is the right decision for them considering who lives with them(elderly, sick) and make their own decisions out of love. We have been told by secular govt that we are non-essential with nary a whisper from our bishops. The state told them to jump and they asked how high.

We are adults. Let US make our own decisions concerning OUR health and whether we should take the risk of going to Mass. What would you do in China? The suffering Catholics in China have not banned their own Masses for fear of being arrested. And they are arrested. They are willing to take that risk for the love of their Mass.

Where was a typhoon in the Philippines and at one church the priest is behind the alter standing in water and parishioners attended by floating their boats into church for Mass. What is it that these people know about the importance of Mass that WE don't?

Open the Churches. If you are afraid for you or your love ones then make the decision to stay home. But Please! Allow us the same courtesy of making our own decisions without trying to tell us how to live our lives.

Anonymous said...

I'll toast to that! 🍻🍺🍷

Mark Thomas said...

Let us be hopeful that the Covid-19 pandemic will be short-lived as all signs indicate that miracle Covid-19 vaccines are close at hand.

I attribute that to the powerful holy spiritual forces that, through Pope Francis, have been unleashed to combat Covid-19.

Pope Francis has engaged in beautiful, powerful, public prayers and spiritual gestures as he has led countless Catholics and non-Catholics to implore God to deliver us from the Covid-19 virus.

In turn, reports have noted that in miraculous record time, experts are on track to deliver unto us Covid-19 vaccines.

I am convinced that God has responded mercifully to the prayers and leadership that our holy and great Culture of Life Pope Francis has offered to end the Covid-19 virus pandemic.

Pope Saint Gregory the Great is remembered for the tremendous spiritual role that, in God's mercy and grace, the Pontiff played in 590 A.D. to combat the plague that had ravaged Rome.

In turn, I am convinced that Pope Francis will be recalled in similar fashion as the holy Pope through whom God delivered the world from the Covid-19 pandemic.

Let us pray for and stand in unrelenting fashion with our holy and great Culture of Life Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis.

Let us also pray for and stand in unrelenting fashion with Father McDonald, and the countless holy priests, who, in creative fashion, have kept the Faith alive, and delivered unto us the Holy Sacraments throughout the Covid-19 pandemic.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

rcg said...

The phrase left out of the sentence “The state allowing to open that are essential” is “to the tax base”. I will be crass: the reason that liquor stores, bars, and restaurants were given more latitude is for the tax revenue to the governments. The Churches don’t contribute as much tax money so aren’t essential to the economy. I think the bishops acknowledge the demographics of most dioceses tilt heavily toward the groups most vulnerable to the disease. The population of priests maybe even more so. They need to be thoughtful of that and do as Bobby says. FWIW we are always under dispensation if we are sick or a health risk.

Victor said...

Anonymous@8:47

Why is is it so hard for folks to understand basic statistics? The average population of 65+ in USA is 12.4%. In Florida it is 17.6% as per the the census of several years ago, so it may have changed, but likely by an increase of older baby-boomer retirees.

Like everywhere else, the mortality rises sharply for those over 65 with two or more comorbidities. Major comorbidities are obesity, heart disease, and type 2 diabetes, by the way, very common in older Americans. All these are generally related to lifestyle. In the USA, one takes a car to the corner grocery store instead of walking, and then buying food heavily laced with fat, sugar, and salt.

https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/florida-covid-19-death-rate-by-age/

Anonymous said...

"Let each priest determine whether he wants to take the risk of having Mass. Let each church goer determine if it is the right decision for them considering who lives with them(elderly, sick) and make their own decisions out of love."

Shall we offer the same freedom to drivers who want to drink alcohol?

Shall we offer it to those who want to drive without seats belts?

Are we to allow "adults" to determine whether they have to install fire suppression systems in the nursing homes they build and run? If a person wants to put Mama in a nursing home without a sprnkler system, shouldn't that person be free to do just that?

The answer to all of the above questions is "No." It is not a "courtesy" to allow you to make decision that can and will have a direct negative impact on others. In fact it is foolishness to think that your decisions as an individual can be made without regard to the health and safety of others.

rcg said...

CDC data for COVID-19 deaths by age group. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex

There are clear risks by age, as well as other demographic characteristics. Many of the people that think this is overblown use the wrong denominator when discussing death rates. The risk to the general population is relatively small; to subpopulations it can be quite high.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 11:13am

Thank you for some good ole common sense.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

RCG, higher death rates in Savannah proper have do do with African Americans who are low income with obesity, diabetes and high blood pressure due to poor eating habits and soul food that is not very healthy and junk food/fast food. They are more excitable and more prone to emotions at religious services and less likely to physical distance.
The elderly with health issues, white or black would be the next category.

Mark Thomas said...

I have appreciated for months the manner in which Father McDonald has handled the Covid-19 pandemic. He has approached the situation in, I believe, rational fashion.

He has employed creative ways to promote the Faith.

I believe that during his recent Confirmations (as I watched his video), he reiterated that which he had offered months ago: Do not permit the around-the-clock, fear-mongering news media to sink our hearts during this pandemic.

I am hopeful that Covid-19 vaccines are not more than a few months away.

I believe that God will soon deliver us from the pandemic.

In 590 A.D., Pope Saint Gregory The Great had brought comfort and relief to the Roman people during the plague that had swept through Rome.

In 2020 A.D., throughout the Covid-19 pandemic, Father McDonald, Pope Francis, and countless holy priests have kept the Faith alive...they have brought comfort and relief to God's Holy People.

Years, decades, centuries from now, today's countless holy priests, such as Father McDonald, will be remembered for their holy work during the pandemic.

This will be remembered as their finest hour.

Be of good cheer as God will deliver us from Covid-19.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Anonymous said...

Your Hired!

Anonymous said...

MT what role are you auditioning for?

rcg said...

As another thought, we have two crises among us: the COVID-19 and the righteous concern over the quality of life for black people. The opportunity to respond effectively to both is to approach the black population with as much spiritual Charity as possible and help them exploit the healthcare system effectively and appropriately. While Fr. McDonald correctly states what are sterilely called comorbidities, the most important factor is the parallel and underserved medical services of black Americans as a group. The blame for that is a shared racism that causes blacks to avoid or refuse medical care from ‘white’ institutions until the need is critical and perhaps too late. As broad as the problem of race history is for our people it can be difficult to find an area of need that can establish a common and productive activity addressing the need for a stronger common bond. If God sent this plague, might this be our best lesson from it?

John Nolan said...

Here in the UK the Westminster government ordered the lockdown in March but allowed Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to set their own timetables for relaxation. In England most restrictions were lifted on 4 July. Staying for two nights in an historic pub in the Derbyshire Peak District (which boasts a very good restaurant) we found that things were more or less normal - tables were a metre apart, which they normally would be, no-one wore a mask, and most of the clientele were of pensionable age, it being during the week.

The hospitality industry has been hit hard, and the over-65s will play a crucial part in reviving it. The bishops' guidelines for public worship are quite strict, and the Oxford Oratorians are following them, except for the injunction that Communion be only given standing and in the hand. In the OF those who wish to receive in the hand kneel two metres apart at the right hand rail; those receiving on the tongue use the left hand rail. Communion is given after Mass, with use of hand sanitizer; and the congregation are reminded that a) Communion of the faithful is not obligatory, and b) those receiving should be properly disposed. For those who prefer to attend Mass during the week (one-metre social distancing means the church has a reduced capacity) there is an additional daily Mass in the Extraordinary Form.

Gene said...

End of world tomorrow...Blacks and minorities hit the hardest.

John Nolan said...

Leicester, a city where whites are now in a minority, remains locked down because of a spike in COVID cases. The living arrangements of south Asians has been identified as the cause.

rcg said...

Gene makes me laugh. Reminds me of a friend who was at work when a tornado watch was issued over the radio. An excitable woman heard the warble alarm and rushed into his office asking what had happened. He told her that partial end of the world alert had been issued for all of Davidson and northern Williamson Counties. She ran screaming from the building.