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Friday, July 3, 2020

THAT’S WHAT I‘M TALKING ABOUT!

What is it about the post-Vatican II formation or deformation of priests and the Ordinary Form of the Mass that any priest would turn the Mass into his own platform to be creative, relevant, meaningful and just stupid?

Could you imagine seeing something  like this with the EF Mass???? Even a deformed priest could not manipulate the EF Mass as he can the OF Mass!



This is World War II color footage of a Mass onboard a Navy Ship near Japan. Mass is being celebrated under harsh conditions. Yet look at the reverence of the priest, but more importantly, the reverence of these Catholic sailors many of whom probably died in the war. Notice in particular the reception of Holy Communion. What is it about the very intrinsic nature of this form of the Mass that reverence is so palpable and the priest’s looks and personality are so, so much in the background and unimportant? No clericalism here compared to the video above.



The first video of the relevant Mass at the top I got from a relatively good post on Praytell, which shocked me, a good post, that is. You can read it HERE.

However, there is this comment that I really like but good old Fr. Alan, I think he is, misses the disease although he diagnosis the symptom:





It’s back to the 1960’s again!
My Seminary years were plagued by people wanting to have ‘meaningful’ liturgies, which were usually turgid ‘Bible Services’ on Saturday evenings.
However, the ‘folk’ music we used, much of which was written by the students, most of it was Scriptural and some of it very good, sort of made things more bearable. 
But the experience has given me a sort of PTSD about ‘relevance’ and ‘meaningfulness.’
AG
Of course, I resonate with his “back to the 1960’s again” which I have been complaining about ever since March 13, 2013. I resonate with his PTSD comment too! 
But the correct observation about “relevance and meaningfulness” is only a superficial diagnosis. The problem is intrinsic to what praytell calls the “reformed” Mass as opposed to the “unreformed” Mass. Reformed = good; Unreformed = baddddd!
The state of the “reformed” Mass today is so dismal compared to the “unreformed” Mass prior to the Council, that one now realizes that we need another Ecumenical Council to reform the intrinsically deformed reformed Mass. We need a “reform of the reform.”
The problems with the pre-Vatican II Mass which the council fathers thought needed reforming are minuscule compared to the reformed Mass we got from Pope Paul VI and His Holiness’ rogue concilium.
But also, that ecumenical council needs to examine the deformation of the priesthood as a result of the erroneous interpretation of Vatican II, that priestly formation leads to such deformation. We need a reform of the reform of the formation of priests. 

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

I was raised on the OF Mass so I'm use to some abuses...but that Liverpool mass is beyond words. Actually one word that comes to mind is "abomination".

rcg said...

I wonder if the priest who does such things is bored with his ‘job’. As far as music goes I think most here know that I love old folk music. The Relatively new tunes such as Little Black Train, Angel Band, and O Death along with the older tunes like Willow Garden and its American cousin, On the Banks of the Ohio have solid morals and even passable theology. The priest should learn the EF low Mass and how play the bouzouki. Then he can compartmentalize his passions. Conduct a reverent Mass then adjourn to the Parish Hall to sing songs that reenforce the readings with dire consequences. Our ARS crafts beer and spirits and the KofC can make sandwiches. Separate the events or you muddle the message.

Anonymous said...

That Fr. Tobin is from Kilkenny, so you'd expect him to be a bit of a gobshite.

Waterford Priest

ByzRC said...

I haven't had the time to look at the video. The goofy welcome sign is probably helping me to not make the time. Regarding the WWII footage, when something IS relevant, constant reminders about its relevance and constant attempts to force relevance upon it are unnecessary.

I'm reminded of a parish, proudly VII per their own description, that had a virtual guided tour of their church linked to their website's homepage. With the church's interior and exterior being more brutalist, there were endless descriptions of what its abstract furnishings symbolized and how one should react to them. They celebrated the tabernacle being off to the side on a minimalistic shelf with little adornment. My feeling: If you can't tell what it is by looking at it, if you can't recognize the symbolism without a description and if you have to be told how to react, it's likely bad design (probably ego-driven as well) particularly from an ecclesiastical perspective.

Lucky Horseshoe said...

To play off what ByzRC said, I was reading an article about architecture not long ago. They did studies and found almost everyone, regardless of culture, subconsciously responds better to traditional architecture (with "traditional" basically encompassing all world architecture prior to the modernism of the 20th century - so western, asian, etc). They basically found that a lot of modern architecture heightens the anxiety of those who experience it. The only significant group to react better to modernism was those who had studied art and architecture and therefore knew what it was supposed to mean and how to react to it.

The difference, they believed, was that traditional buildings focus on human-scale ornament and decoration giving people something to look at and relate to (like patterns and decorative painting) while modern buildings focus more on the overall form of the building while making it plain at the human level.

John Nolan said...

Fr Tobin's Mass referenced Liverpool FC but was from Ireland. He is undoubtedly sincere (if misguided) and I'm sure the old ladies who probably make up the bulk of his congregation love him.

Long before Vatican II there was concern about the educational level of Irish clergy, and the current shortage of candidates for the priesthood has meant the bar has been further lowered.

Unknown Soldier said...



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Matthew 13 [4] And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

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