I think the USA even prior to Vatican II had more "rubrics" for the laity's posture during Mass than did Europe.
As a child, our family normally went to Sunday Low Mass. For most of the Mass the laity knelt. It was way too long and many people chose a "sit/kneel" position, knees on kneeler and butt on edge of pew.
So in my proposal, which of course will go no where is the following:
First, we need to have the same postures for the EF Mass in its high and low form. It makes no sense to me that at the low Mass people are primarily kneeling and the High Mass is closer to the USA rubrics for the Ordinary Form.
Secondly to have some continuity between the OF and EF I recommend the following:
Introit/Entrance chant (stand)
PATFOTA/Penitential Act (kneel)
Gloria and Collect (stand)
Scripture readings (sit)
Gospel Acclamation and Gospel (stand)
Homily (sit)
Creed (stand)
Intercession (OF/kneel)
Offertory (sit)
Orate Fratres (stand)
Secret/Prayer over Offerings (stand)
Preface (stand)
Sanctus (EF kneel, OF stand)
Pater Noster (stand)
Agnus Dei (stand)
Ecce Agnus Dei (Kneel)
Post Communion (stand)
Final blessing (kneel)
Obviously there would be some slight differences in the EF over the OF but there could be a merging in the other areas.
11 comments:
Bee here:
Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?
God bless.
Bee
Interesting. I recall Pope Benedict gave a discussion on the meanings behind sit stand kneel. A more recent discussion asked if Catholic Churches should have pews. http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2020/07/are-pews-in-churches-problemand-if-so.html?m=1#.XyHH0Rhq3YU . My thought was I would welcome seeing churches without those rigid contraptions. I saw no pews in Hage Sophia. In photographs of European churches I also noticed their pews don’t look as Protestant as ours. The lack of pews presents no obstacle to standing or kneeling.
I once heard that a visitor had described the posturing of Catholics at Mass as "Stand up, sit down, fight, fight, fight."
Pews are essentially a protestant thing which took hold here and other countries of large or majority protestant population, and then worked its way into majority of Catholic churches worldwide. The same has been happening to Orthodox churches at an intially far slower pace which of (relatively) late has rapidly accelerated.
Am unfamiliar with rubrics for the older churches sans pews, but my vote would be for stand at all times except at consecration/elevation/and during Holy Communion (anytime Christ is visible). The elderly/infirm free to bring folding chair, all welcome to bring walking stick and pad, all can then pay attention to God right there rather than play with books.
I was going to mention the same thing about pews and having lived in several European country’s I can note that many churches use folding chairs since pews were never part of the original church design.
But since we’re just about the same as a Protestant Church why not pews.
Father when are you doing your next TLM at the cathedral?
Forgot to say I love your photo on the main page. beautiful.
I'd rather they abolish the rubrics for the laity in the OF and let local customs develop without it being rigidly enforced. I have found that one of the bigger stumbling blocks for those who first encounter the EF is that they are too used to everything being linear and strictly defined for them. They don't know how to just be at a Mass since individual engagement with the OF is discouraged. So, when they don't know exactly where the priest is word-for-word in the missal or know exactly what posture to make (and maybe the congregation is doing a variety of things at that time), it frustrates them.
There is a difference in the TLM, the epistle is a prayer. The priest is praying the reading. In the novus ordo the readings are an instruction. The laity sit for instruction. In the TLM laity kneel for prayer.
Observing from the choir loft, I notice that most of the congregation adopt the customary Low Mass postures at a Sung Mass, kneeling for most of the time. This harks back to the time when private devotions at Low Mass were more common than they are now. However, they scramble to their feet at the Pater Noster, which is a Novus Ordo innovation; it would make more sense to follow what the sanctuary party are doing and stand after the elevation of the Chalice and remain standing until the Fraction.
As a general rule, sung responses should be made standing, and it is appropriate to stand for the orations. While the Introit is being sung it is better for the congregation to stand, and remain standing until the Amen after the Collect (sitting when the priest sits).
The congregation do not stand for the Orate Fratres, but should stand at the Per omnia which concludes the Secret. It has been suggested that the Sung Mass postures be observed at the Low Mass (the Sung Mass being regarded as the norm), but this is perhaps being over-fussy. Those receiving Communion in both the OF and EF should make their own thanksgiving quietly and kneeling either in their place or at a side altar. Attempts by some US bishops to dragoon the faithful into standing and singing a hymn at this point in the Novus Ordo are misguided and should be resisted.
John, in the USA prior to Vatican II and since the TLM has been allowed in the 1980's, there are specific rules for the laity's posture at Mass. Most parishes that celebrate the EF Mass use a red booklet entitled "Latin-English Booklet Missal For Praying the Traditional Mass.
These are the directions which are the same that I recall as a child and young teenager:
PATFOTA, low Mass all kneel until the Gospel, High Mass stand for Gloria until priest finishes saying it and sit with him for the choir to complete theirs. Stand for Collect.
Sit for Epistle, Gradual/Tract at High Mass
Stand for Gospel and High and Low Masses
Stand for the Creed, genuflect at the Et Incarnatus est and remain standing for the Dominus vobiscum..
High Mass, sit for offertory and at low Mass sit until the Sanctus
High Mass Stand at Preface dialogue and Preface, kneel for Sanctus (and at low Mass remain kneeling until the Last Gospel!!!
High Mass, stand for Pater Noster and then kneel again at the Haec Commixtio..
High Mass stand for the Post communion and Dismissal
HIgh Mass, kneel for blessing
Stand for Last Gospel for both High and Low Masses
Kneel for Prayers after the Low Mass (Leonine Prayers for conversion of Russia).
The 'red booklet' is also used over here, but the custom has always been to sit for the Epistle at Low Mass. It was considered bad form to sit after the Communion before the priest had closed the tabernacle door. At Low Mass only the server's postures are prescribed; unlike the congregation he remains kneeling during the Creed whereas in the Dominican Rite he stands.
I recall a quaint custom whereby the last person to receive Communion would remain kneeling at the rail until the priest had returned the ciborium to the tabernacle. Also, where there was no server and there were no men or boys in the congregation, a woman could kneel at the altar rail and make the responses.
Regarding pews, well into the 20th century Catholic parishes in England and America derived an important part of their income from pew rents.
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