Tuesday, March 1, 2016

A TIME CAPSULE FROM 1965 AND THE TIME OF EXPECTING A NEW SPRINGTIME IN THE CHURCH AND THE GREAT ONE, JACKIE GLEASON, PONTIFICATES ON THE TIMES--THIS IS GREAT FOLKS AND WHAT A TIME CAPSULE OF VATICAN II TRIUMPHALISM OF GREAT EXPECTATIONS IT IS!

One has to keep in mind that those who were well-formed in the pre-Vatican II Church and respected the Magisterium and were obedient to it through thick and thin, were thrilled with the relaxation of the strict discipline of the Church as experienced prior to the Council.

It was as though the pre-Vatican II Church repressed them and once that repression was removed by the very authorities that had "repressed" them, all kinds of possibilities opened up. I think Jackie Gleason captures this to a certain extent while remaining a traditional Catholic at the core.

I especially loved his description of Confession as the most exciting thing about Catholicism. A church filled with sinners can leave with all their sins forgiven, taken away!

I thank Mark Thomas for directing me to this gold mind of a time capsule on the Church of the mid 60's. The whole thing is worth watching. Near the end of the program, at about the 24:40 mark, Father Lloyd and Jackie Gleason discussed for about three minutes the radical changes that had engulfed the Church:

This is Mark Thomas' take on the video:

In 1965 A.D., entertainer Jackie Gleason, "The Great One", appeared on Inquiry, hosted by Paulist Father James Lloyd. Inquiry was produced in cooperation with the New York Archdiocese.

In the following video, Jackie Gleason discussed religion/Catholicism. Near the end of the program, at about the 24:40 mark, Father Lloyd and Jackie Gleason discussed for about three minutes the radical changes that had engulfed the Church.

Father Lloyd and Jackie Gleason spoke positively about the Church's entrance into the Ecumenical Movement. They also discussed the movement within the Church to ordain women to the priesthood. They noted with approval that the Church had begun to "listen" to "everyone" rather than try to "give answers" to people.

Jackie Gleason predicted that the Church, via the Ecumenical Movement, would cast aside Her "austere fa├žade" and attract more people to the "human" Church. Hmmm...I wonder how well that worked for the Church.

Jackie Gleason noted that he had just read an article about a woman "who served Communion." He also praised the movement to ordain women to the priesthood.

Father Lloyd described the Church's status as "wide open".

A television show offers a glimpse into the insanity that had engulfed the Church more than 50 years ago. The Church was collapsing and we have two Catholics gushing about the "wide open" state of the Church.

More than 50 years later, the Church has not recovered from Her "wide open" state.

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

In 1965, "traditional Catholic at the core" Jackie was with his second wife.... one more came along later....

Mark Thomas said...

I will say the following as a sinner: I appreciate that Jackie Gleason acknowledged during interviews his sinful ways. As I recall from decades ago, he acknowledged many times that while he had drifted from the Church, he tried his best to retain belief in Holy Mother Church. I believed that he was reconciled to the Church near the end of his live. Is it correct that he received the "Mass of Christian Burial?"

I also consider the following in regard to the video of Jackie Gleason discussing religion: How many big-time Catholic entertainers of Jackie Gleason's status today would discuss publically in overall positive Catholicism/religion?

The opposite is true today. More than a few Catholic entertainers have taken delight in bashing the Church/religion. I believe that Bill Murray, Jimmy Fallon, and Kevin James are exceptions to that rule. But I doubt that few Catholic entertainers today would speak as positively of religion as did Jackie Gleason.

Anyway, I am pleased that Father McDonald shares my interest in the interview in question. It is interesting that during the time of Vatican II, men who had grown up in the "old" Church were pleased that the Church had entered into a "wide open" state of mind-boggling change.

It is amazing that men of great intelligence had failed to comprehend that support for such things as women's ordination to the priesthood and pushing the Church to "listen" to world rather than instruct the world would benefit Holy Mother Church.

Even more amazing is that some 50 years later, aware of the destruction that the Church's "wide open" approach had wrought, people continue to push that failed agenda.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Anonymous said...

How much I would have loved to have been so much a part of the Roman Catholic Church prior to Vatican II but was not yet born, now I must travel an hour to attend a TLM when with a 10 mile radius there are 6 Roman Catholic Churches, yet I must travel to attend the TLM. I refuse to attend any of these with ripped out high altars, ripped out communion rails, ripped out statues and kneelers, altar girls running around, lay lectors, hand holding, kiss of peace, drums, guitars, banjos, lay people handing our communion wafers and wine, priests sitting on the side while women take over their roles and just sit and watch, NEVER will I succumb to this drivel and utter nonsense!!

Jan said...

"One has to keep in mind that those who were well-formed in the pre-Vatican II Church and respected the Magisterium and were obedient to it through thick and thin, were thrilled with the relaxation of the strict discipline of the Church as experienced prior to the Council", I feel that that comment does not reflect those Catholics who were well-formed but reflects those who never really "bought" into the Catholic Church or understood Her teachings. Many Catholics who were well-formed in the pre-Vatican II Church and respected the Magisterium were stunned by what happened following Vatican II. There were many bishops and priests who didn't agre with what happened as well and saw it as a break with the traditions of the Church. That dispute has not been settled but certainly one can say that statistics speak for themselves and what was warned of - empty churches and protestantising of the liturgy - has certainly come to pass and several generations of Catholics have been lost to the Faith.

Mark Thomas said...

Father Lloyd's (and Jackie Gleason's) glowing analysis of the Church's participation in the Ecumenical Movement has not stood the test of time.

The reality is that despite our Churchmen having weakened the Church considerably via countless ecumenical surrenders, hatred for Holy Mother Church remains rampant throughout the world.

In the name of ecumenism, we have smashed the Roman Liturgy, our churches, and our Catholic identity. Nevertheless, from 1965 A.D. (when the TV show in question aired) to date, whenever a Pope (or bishop) dared to offer straightforward non-ecumenical politically correct statements that promoted Catholicism, the world reacted with rage.

The Church has incurred the world's wrath whenever She has opposed artificial birth control, abortion, and/or sodomite unions. Several years ago, when the document Dominus Iesus, the "world" was outraged at the Church.

Examples from an article:

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=4010

"Vatican Rejects Equality of Religions," roared Associated Press. "Vatican Claims Monopoly on Salvation," declared the Washington Post headlines.

"The Vatican's Sad Statement on Salvation," — Religion News Service. Their article said, "The pronouncement ... is so pathetic it seems cruel even to notice it. Better to let the belligerent words of Vatican conservatives pass unheard through the sands of reality."

Anglican Church, Rev. George Carey was angered at the Catholic Church's "idea that Anglican and other churches are not 'proper churches.'"

Within the non-Catholic world, it is all peaches in cream as long as the Catholic Church smites Herself, beats up Herself, and issues endless "apologies" for Her "arrogance" and "sins". But woe to the Church should She dare to act unashamedly Catholic.

Jimmy Akin last year wrote the following in regard to Pope Francis' response to a question posed to him during the Pope's visit to a Lutheran Church:

Lutheran woman: "...I'm married to an Italian, who is a Roman Catholic Christian. We’ve lived happily together for many years, sharing joys and sorrows. And so we greatly regret being divided in faith and not being able to participate in the Lord's Supper together. What can we do to achieve, finally, communion on this point?"

Jimmy Akin said of Pope Francis' convoluted response to the above question: "What might the pope have said? Of course, one response would be, “Become Catholic.” But if popes said that routinely when they were in a Lutheran church, they wouldn’t be invited to Lutheran churches and would lose this form of outreach to other Christians.

"Intra-Christian unity proceeds slowly. Being too explicit right up front is a little like saying “Marry me!” on the first date. So you wouldn’t really expect Pope Francis to explicitly propose swimming the Tiber in this particular context."

What an unfortunate, but revealing response, by Jimmy Akin. A Pope is unable to proclaim the truth explicitly to non-Catholics, particularly when he is on their turf, as to do so would spur non-Catholics to invite them to their turf.

Jimmy Akin urges us not to expect Popes to be "too explicit" to non-Catholics in presenting the urgent truth in regard to their need to embrace Jesus Christ's True Church. That is sad.

However, unwittingly or otherwise, Jimmy Akin revealed the truth about the Ecumenical Movement. To continue to appease the world, which rejects the Church anyway, Holy Mother Church must water-down Her message. That is the reality of Catholic participation in the Ecumenical Movement.

In turn, that is why in 1965 A.D., Father James Lloyd and Jackie Gleason were wrong in their glowing assessment of Catholic participation in the Ecumenical Movement.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Jan said..."There were many bishops and priests who didn't agre with what happened as well and saw it as a break with the traditions of the Church."

That is true. Unfortunately, they were defeated, one way or another, by Pope Blessed Paul VI's determination to implement revolutionary changes to the Church.

Catholic Charity compels me to consider that Pope Blessed Paul VI acted in good faith (CCC #2478) in regard to his revolution in question. I accept that he believed that his program of change would usher into the Church the New Springtime. He did not act to destroy the Church. Unfortunately, his plan failed to enhance liturgy and spirituality throughout the Church.

But resistance to Pope Blessed Paul VI's revolution was difficult at best as he possessed the awesome power of the Papacy. The Weaklands, Hubbards, etc., were elevated to key posts...tradition-minded priests were trampled, and seminaries closed its doors to men who were considered "too Catholic".

Of course, the official party line from Rome and our bishops is that the reforms "revitalized" liturgy and spirituality within the Church.

Pax.

Mark Thomas