This is copied from the Pillar, the not s bitter one:
“It is neither a synod nor a mere dialogue process,” said the cardinal widely credited with inspiring the more controversial parts of Amoris Laetitia. “It goes beyond my imagination that demands such as the abolition of celibacy and the ordination of women to the priesthood could end up with a two-thirds majority in the bishops' conference or that they could reach a consensus in the universal Church.”
Kasper went on to warn that the German bishops’ attempts to force radical reform on the global Church would not be well received. On the contrary, Kasper said, looking at parishes in the United States, parts of Rome, and in Africa, it is Germany which is the "catechetical emergency area" in need of outside help.
"Wherever it is done well, you will find young people in Sunday services, young families with children, those in Germany can often be counted on the fingers of one hand — the current state of the Catholic Church in Germany is not particularly attractive and there is little desire to imitate us,” said the cardinal.
If Walter Kasper is telling you to look to America and Africa for inspiration, you really have to ask yourself: how far from the herd have you strayed?
28 comments:
The parallels between the secular struggle and the ecclesial struggle are uncanny.
In the secular world, the left looks at successful economies, successful businesses, countries that control their borders efficiently and have sound energy policy with low energy costs and they have no "successful" model with which to counter. Instead they invent a narrative. The narrative reads like this:
EVERY success is unfair and is the result of privilege
The successful people are hateful bigots
We have to shut down freedom to dissent and voice our new vision of the world and ONLY our new vision of the world
All the success is evil because we have violated the environment (when in fact the totalitarian countries are the biggest polluters)
There must be no debate. You must think as we say and don't listen to anything else, because it comes from stupid, hateful people.
Likewise in the Church, we have a hierarchy that looks at successful, growing sectors of the Church and they cannot compete with it in any kind of coherent manner, so instead, they seek to shut it down and taint it with slanderous lies. Their narrative reads like this:
The "Old Church" was a repressive, hateful place that bred psychological damage
Tradition is rigid and, therefore, de facto, intolerable for our enlightened age
Those who are devoted to the "outdated" ways of tradition are suspect and unstable
Those who are devoted to the "outdated" ways of tradition are "intolerant" and "mean"
We do not want any debate, so we need to simply shut the other side down.
We have the ONLY true way, so listen only to us.
Kaspar and the Pope remind me much of a popular workplace cartoon of a manager with loosened tie, sleeves rolled up, and pocket protector, spittle-flecked ranting, "Holy ***!! Don't tell me you did exactly what I told you to do!!!"
What is hopeful in the Cardinal’s critique of dying Christianity in Germany, first the liberal Protestant branch—Lutherism and now the Catholic clone created by the Germans, is that Kasper sees what is happened and is pointing to conservative or traditional churches in the USA and Africa which are producing abundant vocations, and families in these communities having children galore, like in my parish.
He also knows that the more conservative new movements, like charismatics, home schooling families and EF communities are having kids galore and vocations galore.
I don’t think you can point to any liberal diocese or liberal parish even in a conservative diocese which is producing children and/or vocations. Kasper knows this and thus most cardinals know this and it bodes well for the next conclave to elect someone who is not of the 1970’s mindset that thinks liberal/progressive reforms will save the Church. Germany is the prime poster child for that debacle as it the rest of Western Europe. Sad. I think progressives, especially religious orders of men and women, like the Jesuits have a death wish. I really do.
Of course they have a death wish--just like the secularists.
It's called "MANAGING THE DECLINE".
While it is nice to hope for a better pope in the next conclave, I would caution against getting one's hopes too high. Bergoglio appointed about 60 percent of the voting cardinals and the numbers will likely be even HIGHER by the time he checks out. Bergoglio is doing all he can to make sure the next conlcave elects Francis II.
Some Catholics like to say that the Holy Spirit chooses popes, but I am not so sure. Scheming factions of power-hungry cardinals and those who pulls their strings tend to choose popes. I DO believe that the Holy Spirit can use popes IN SPITE of the schemes of man, but I have no illusions about some divine intervention taking place every time the Sistine Chapel is sealed up.
I do not hold such a rosey view as these folk are primarily looking thru manager-tinted glasses, beholden only to the mantra that the management strategy must be correct, and if it is failing, then the obvious solution is to do it some more. Any any who see or say otherwise are NOT team players, and to blame for lack of success of the management strategy.
Actual religion has as little to do with it as it does with their own rote and bankrupt spiritual lives. They are "clericalism" made flesh. More properly, "managerism".
Father McDonald,
I like your take on this. I find it almost inexplicable that the higher ups kept doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Germany is a strange case / before Vatican II it seemed more “Roman than Rome” in places like Munich. I was in Munich several years ago and was stunned how empty its Churches were on Sunday
After three or four of the Apostles died a martyr's death, you'd think the remaining would have said, "Why keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?"
Maybe it was because they were convinced through faith and trust in God that, although difficult and dangerous, the path they were on was the one that was righteous, appropriate, and would be successful, even if that success came far down the road.
Nostalgia paints a lovely picture, but it is rarely a depiction of reality.
I’m reminded of a passage I read in a book once, where a well-known pop musician, with a horrible drug-addiction, arranged an “intervention” with friends and family of a comedian/actor who had a horrible alcoholism problem. The narrator wrote, “When HE tells you that you’ve got a substance abuse problem...you KNOW it’s got to be BAD”.
Using that as an analogy, if Cardinal KASPER thinks there are problems with Germany’s “synodal way” thingy...well...you know it’s got to be bad!
Gaudete in Domino Semper!
Our progressive shepherds have their heads firmly embedded in sand.
"Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not; for they are a rebellious house". --Ezekiel 12:2
If Cardinal Kasper is surprised by these developments then we should never have listened to a thing he said.
“Anonymous” @ 3.14PM,
It is neither being nostalgic nor delusional to remember or acknowledge that the Church on the eve of Vatican II, despite its faults, was in pretty good shape, and nourished and sustained literally tens of millions of believers.....and was both respected and influential....
The decline of the Church, since circa 1970, according to at least a dozen indicators, can only be denied by those who are almost clinically delusional. Re the reasons of that decline, well, that that can be debated...but dear “anonymous”, keep on with your disingenuous BS here and elsewhere; you fool only 1. Idiots or 2. Those who choose to be fooled, as their hearts, minds and souls are really more aligned with post-Christian, secular humanist culture, as opposed to the basics of scripture, the catechism or even “mere Christianity”..
AJP.
Anonymous K at 3:14,
Those martyrs chose not to betray Christ and His Church. How is that analogous to clerics who have chosen managed decline?
Paris Pete, aka TJM, and "Dear" AJP - When asked why they left the practice of the Catholic faith, the fallen away don't cite "Changes in the Mass."
Neither are the "Changes in the Mass" given as reasons for non-participation by the "nones," those who have no religious affiliation. No one says "Well, if the Mass was still in Latin, if Gregorian chant was used, if the preist wore vestments from the Middle Ages, or if the Eucharistic Fast was 12 hours, I'd be a Catholic in a heartbeat."
So, you can call it "BS" all you want, but that doesn't alter the facts as reported by the people who, unlike you, are in a position to know.
Hi there “anonymous”, at 11.03,
If people, if millions of people, want to walk away from the Church and it’s teachings because, officially at least, the Church will not agree that sodomy and abortion etc are quite acceptable, then it is good they walk away and become “nones” -
By the way, over the past 50 years, the harm done to the Church by the thousands of priests who left to marry, become Protestants or “nones” etc was minor compared to the harm done by the thousands of priests who remained who either 1. Were weak in BELIEF re the basics of Catholic teachings; or 2. Believed, but lacked the courage (feared unpopularity etc) to loudly and clearly state “THIS is what the Church teaches…”.
Monica A.
Anonymous K 11:03 AM,
Starting to imitate Mark Thomas, I see. You can’t rebut the point so you toss out some non sequiturs as a diversion. Sad
It looks like several posters believe Anonymous K is the one full of BS! LOL
As Bishop Sheen once noted, wrong is wrong even if everyone does it and right is right even if no one does it.
Citing popularity or cooperation as an indicator of validity is an empty exercise.
Anonymous 11:03
Your focus on the superficiality and inability to see the story beneath the story is...indicative of public education!
"If people, if millions of people, want to walk away from the Church and it’s teachings because, officially at least, the Church will not agree that sodomy and abortion etc are quite acceptable, then it is good they walk away and become “nones” -"
I don't agree. I think it would be far, far better for them to stay in the Church, disagreeing though they may be, and have access to the grace of the Sacraments that would be instrumental in bringing about their conversion.
Too many commenters here are too ready to shout, "Either you're all in or get out!"
Monica A - I am glad that your faith is always robust and that you are never swayed in anything by the possibility of being derided. Maybe you could offer classes to the woefully inperfect clergy and laity who, due to the imperfection of their nature, struggle in faith.
Anonymous TJM 8:28 - Oh, I have never attended a public school in my life, not in 22 years of schooling.
And I am able to see the story beneath the story that's beneath the story that's hidden by the story that can't be the story unless you see the story.
So there.
Anonymous at 4:49PM,
Your fixation on TJM has blinded you. That poster is not TJM. So you have attracted someone who also is not enamoured with you!
Anon 9:39 - You may find it necessary or helpful to attract people who ARE enamoured with you. Collecting a crowd of sycophantic followers is not something I need or desire.
And what about the erroneous claim made by TJM at 8:28. I've never attended a public school in my life. Why are you avoiding that error?
One does not obtain courage from classes. Courage, I believe, is best regarded as innate to certain individuals or like grace, a gift from God. Don’t you think? By the way, we here note a hint of hysteria in your above responses and or replies. Why not have a little break from blogs? Why not say a few prayers; then have something like a double scotch? In that order…okay?
Regards,
Dr Monica A.
Bless me, Fr K, for I have sinned…
I have lacked charity at least ten times on Catholic blogs….
Especially as regards lacking charity towards pseudo intellectual Catholics who struggle to believe the Resurrection was a real historical event and, as well, those Catholics who are unsure about whether abortion on demand is morally wrong or not…
To say say nothing, of my lack of charity towards pampered, Western, modern and modernist Catholics who struggle whether to accept Christian sexual morality (as presented in the New Testament) or accept the sexual morality of modern, American LGBTLMNOP activists
For these and all my sins, I am sorry….
Monica A.
Here! Here! I too have never attended public school! How dare you suggest such a thing! That I, grand, special person that I am would condescend to attend such an unwashed gathering with all of those foul underlings.
Let's get one thing straight and never forget it: I am better than you! I've NEVER attended public school in all of my life (which by the way is more important and far more meaningful than yours).
A person who states his disagreement is termed "hysterical." Interesting.
A person who states his disagreement is accused of doubting the bodily resurrection or the immorality of abortion. Interesting.
A person who corrects an error in another's post is accused of being a "modernist," whatever that is.
A person who corrects an error is accused of being "grand" and "special." Also interesting.
Also, interesting dear “anonymous” is your lack of a sense of humour.
Re: what is a modernist? Look in the mirror.
You and your like can disingenuously recite all the basic creeds, while in fact, and in truth, you et al can REDEFINE
almost every significant word and term in those creeds…..with the results that not only is your own faith diluted into, at times, almost nothingness, but the REAL tragedy is that your type, which are LEGION, influence others….
Anon 10:11 - "Look in the mirror" is not a definition, it is a dodge.
I would challenge you to give evidence that I or my like have REDEFINED any significant word or term in the creeds. I would ask, but you would have no response and would, I am quite sure, simply proffer another dodge.
Shouting "Modernist" is just another "Benghazi" or "Communist" or "Liberal."
It's an emotion, a reaction, and nothing more.
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