THE CRUX OF THE BOMBSHELL!!!!
In his talk, Cardinal Sarah also said that Pope Francis had asked him to begin a study of “the reform of the reform”, that is of adapting the liturgical reforms that followed the Second Vatican Council.
The cardinal said the study would seek “to enrich the two forms of the Roman rite”.
Certainly Robert Cardinal Sarah would not make such an announcement without prior approval of Pope Francis or would His Eminence?
Not since the days of Pope Benedict has there been an encouragement this specific about celebrating Mass ad orientem. And Cardinal Sarah says this is what Pope Francis wants!
From the UK's Catholic Herald:
Cardinal Sarah asks priests to start celebrating Mass facing east this Advent
Cardinal Robert Sarah celebrates Mass in Haiti in 2010 (CNS)
The Vatican's liturgy chief said
priests should view the proposed change as 'something good for the
Church, something good for our people'
Cardinal Robert Sarah, the Vatican’s liturgy chief, has asked priests to begin celebrating Mass ad orientem, that is, facing east rather than towards the congregation.
The proposed reform is arguably the biggest liturgical announcement since Benedict XVI’s 2007 motu proprio Summorum Pontificum gave greater freedom for priests to celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass.
Speaking at the Sacra Liturgia conference in London on Wednesday, the Guinean cardinal, who is Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship, addressed priests who were present, saying: “It is very important that we return as soon as possible to a common orientation, of priests and the faithful turned together in the same direction – eastwards or at least towards the apse – to the Lord who comes”.
The cardinal continued: “I ask you to implement this practice wherever possible.”
He said that “prudence” and catechesis would be necessary, but told pastors to have “confidence that this is something good for the Church, something good for our people”.
“Your own pastoral judgement will determine how and when this is possible, but perhaps beginning this on the first Sunday of Advent this year, when we attend ‘the Lord who will come’ and ‘who will not delay’.”
These words were met with prolonged applause in the conference hall.
Cardinal Sarah had spoken on previous occasions about the merits of ad orientem worship, saying that from the Offertory onwards it was “essential that the priest and faithful look together towards the east”.
But his specifying of the first Sunday of Advent – which falls this year on November 27 – gives a new urgency to his calls for this form of worship.
Speaking after Cardinal Sarah, Bishop Dominique Rey of Fréjus-Toulon said that, although he was “only one bishop of one diocese”, he would celebrate Mass ad orientem at his cathedral, and would address a letter to his diocese encouraging his priests to do the same.
In his talk, Cardinal Sarah also said that Pope Francis had asked him to begin a study of “the reform of the reform”, that is of adapting the liturgical reforms that followed the Second Vatican Council.
The cardinal said the study would seek “to enrich the two forms of the Roman rite”.
Cardinal Sarah said that much liturgical study had suggested that some post-conciliar reforms “may have been put together according to the spirit of the times” and “gone beyond” of the Fathers of Vatican II, in Sacrosanctum Concilium, the constitution on the liturgy.
He said that some “very serious misinterpretations of the liturgy” had crept in, thanks to an attitude to the liturgy which placed man rather than God at the centre.
“The liturgy is not about you and I,” Cardinal Sarah told the conference. “It is not where we celebrate our own identity or achievements or exalt or promote our own culture and local religious customs. The liturgy is first and foremost about God and what He has done for us.”
The Cardinal quoted Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: “Forgetting about God is the most imminent danger of our age.”
Cardinal Sarah emphasised a “hermeneutic of continuity”, saying that it was necessary to implement Sacrosanctum Concilium fully: “The Fathers did not intend a revolution, but an evolution.”
He made some specific observations, praising the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham as an example of how the Church could be enriched by other traditions.
In remarks which he did not have time to deliver, but which were later published on Sacra Liturgia’s Facebook page, the cardinal also encouraged kneeling at the consecration and for the reception of Communion. “Where kneeling and genuflection have disappeared from the liturgy, they need to be restored, in particular for our reception of our Blessed Lord in Holy Communion.”
46 comments:
And I guarantee you that on the 1st Sunday of Advent Pope Francis will have some big highly publicized Mass facing the propel and will make,some snide remark "Don't tell Cardinal Sarah". Just wait. It means nothing. For god sake we have a pope that just said people living in sin are actually in a real marriage and receive sacramental grace. None of this means anything or will go anywhere.
This man should one day be Pope, but it will never happen.
That sounds like a good change, but doesn't such a generalized policy create some of the same problems that Vatican 2 caused? It might encourage some of the older churches to have their original altars restored, but what about all of the newer churches that were designed specifically for the Vatican 2 style Mass and altars? Wont this cause a wreckovation and disruption for some of the newer churches, just as V2 did for the old? Personally I like the idea of facing east.
Questions from a Baptist
1. No disrespect to Gene: Gene says that all faiths with the exception of Christians are false. In our city the Jews and the Catholics have a very close relationship. They even once a year have a service together. Its in all the papers. Jesus was Jewish. What in the Catholic beliefs will happen to a good Jewish person when they die? If their religion is false why would the Catholics share a service with them?
2. Why are infants baptized when they are so young and have no idea what baptism means. I know you have confirmation later for those of age. What is the catholic view of a little child who dies without being baptized?
3. I had a friend who wanted to go to church and his parents forbid it. As a child he could not help his situation. Later when he was a teenager he had a regular person who was a catholic baptize him in a swimming pool. Im not being silly this really happened. The catholic was not a priest but this friend said it was the same as a real baptism because of his intent and desire of the heart. Is this person in the eyes of God a baptized person?
4. I also knew a neighbor who was a catholic. She died alone at home unexpectedly. Later when her body was taken by ambulance to the hospital attempting to revive her (but she was already dead) a catholic priest was called to give her the last rites. I understand the last rites but can a dead person have the last rites?
5. Are there different levels of heaven? For example a priest who dedicated his entire life and wealth to God wouldn't that person be closer to the father or are all of our callings from God just as important as the priest? But what about a priest who never even owned his own home.... wouldn't he he elevated in the site of God.
6. And last..... why aren't there many nuns anymore. The Catholic Children on my street tell me that they do not have one nun in their school? What has happened to all the Nuns who used to teach school?
What do you think? I know a devout Catholic family. They have a son who is gay. He is now an older man. The boy always knew he was gay. He told his mother that from the age of 5 he knew something was different with him. He tried to date girls but that did not work out. He decided to become a priest because he was a very devout Catholic. He went to his priest and told the priest he wanted to serve God as a priest. He was very honest with the Priest and told him he was Gay but had never acted on those feelings. The priest advised him not to enter the priesthood. Years later this man moved away (New York) continued to go to mass but met another man and fell in love. They met at church. Once years ago when it was legal in a state near New York for gay people to marry these two men planned a civil wedding. The gay mans elderly mother refused to go to the wedding. She insisted that no one else in the family go to the wedding. One family member went to their priest. The priest told this person that the christian thing to do would be to go to the wedding of her brother. The priest told her that she did not have to agree with the marriage but just to be there for her brother. The sister went and now the mother will not speak to her son or daughter. What are your thoughts on the advice this priest gave to the sister. This man is a good person who works helping elderly people. He is a christian in every way except for his choice in marriage. Isn't it time for us to love those and accept them even if they have sins. We all have sins. Is being gay a worse sin than judging a son and never speaking to your children again. I honestly want some thoughts and no insults please. This situation breaks my heart.
Deo Gratias! Left-wing loon priests (fake Catholics) are aghast! Vindicates honest and faithful priests like Father McDonald!!
Anonymous,
1) I include Jews in the Judaeo-Christian tradition and there is certainly continuity there. The Jewish faith is not false. The Catholic Mass recapitulates Jewish worship in some ways. The pre-Vat II concept of the Priesthood is very OT in its conception. I like that.
But, Christ made a New Covenant with His people, replacing the Torah with himself (Pope Benedict). So, although God is not done with the Children of Israel, the Church has moved ahead in the New Covenant.
2) A Priest is better suited to answer your question, but intellectual understanding is not necessary for the efficacy of Baptism. The child is thereby freed from the stain of original sin and "covered" (I know Catholics don't like that particular view of Atonement) by His Sacrifice.
3) Again, better answered by a Priest but, according to my understanding, an unusual Baptism or an emergency Baptism done by a lay person is efficacious. However, if a Priest and a Church are available, the Baptism should be done there. The Catholic Church recognizes the Baptisms of all the major protestant denominations. In the case you mention, it seems something is lacking.
4) A Priest needs to answer that.
5.) Again, that is a question for a Priest. Aquinas spoke of different levels of Angels, so I assume there may be distinctions in Heaven, but not such that anyone is scorned or looked down upon. Things there are not like on earth. Whatever levels there are are just and glorious and joyful.
6) Vatican II destroyed many Church vocations and radically changed many Priests understanding of their own vocation. A tragedy for the Church all the way around (my opinion, of course, but the evidence is pretty strong).
Anonymous @ 8:52 (I don't know if you are the same one), your question is baiting and has been argued ad nauseous. There are many sad situations brought about by people's choice of life style. Homosexuality is an abomination according to all of Scripture. That has always been the Church's stance. It is a different order of sin because it is anti-life and anti-family. No life can come from that union, which is the purpose of marriage. The homosexual life style is a travesty of the Sacrament of marriage and the union of man and woman. Homosexuals should be tolerated, but marginalized. The Church offers them forgiveness if they are willing to repent and seek to change their lives. The Church has many support groups for just this purpose.
Anonymous,
We all have to accept our cross in life. Sometimes we find ourselves in a loveless marriage, sometimes we have same-sex attraction. That does not relieve us of the obligation to follow Christ and His Church. Sentimentality is not the Faith. If you explained to the readers here what sex acts gays engage in, you would lose your audience and your appeal. Nice try
Gene, the Jewish religion of today is a false religion. The Judaism of our Blessed Lord became the Catholic Church. The Jews who rejected our Lord created their false religion after the temple was destroyed.
Jews, then, like everyone else in the world, must enter the Catholic Church in order to be saved.
Catholics who participate in joint "services" with Jews sin gravely in violation of the first commandment by offering false worship to the true God. Many of them are misguided and led astray by the false ecumenism taught by priests, bishops, and popes of the last 60 years.
TJM I dont understand your comment about "explained to the readers here what sex acts gays engage in, you would lose your audience and your appeal. Nice Try" I just honestly told a story about a family I know of and wanted to know people's opinion. I am talking about a human being here not sex acts. If I offended anyone by that post I am very sorry. And I just don't understand your comment. I just wanted to know what church members thought of the advice the priest gave and the actions of the mother towards her children. I care deeply about all of the people in that story and hate to see a family hurt.
TJM are you also saying that the priest who advised the sister to go to her brother's wedding is a fake priest? How can a church tolerate a fake priest? This man was a priest for 30 something years. How can people in churches supposed to know who is and who is not a fake priest? This family always sought the advice of a priest and the sister did prayerfully what her priest told her to do. How is one to know who is not a Holy Real Priest?
Questions
1. When we die will we see our parents and will we have the same body as Jesus did wounds and all?
2. When we die will be able to see the face of God? Oh I just think that would be wonderful...
3. Some people in my church say that when we die we are angels. I tell them they are incorrect that angels are different from humans. Why are there always pictures of babies as angels?
4. I have learned that Catholics pray for the dead. I guess we all do but somehow the Catholics feel that these prayers actually help the dead in some way. Why do the dead need our help aren't they already hopefully happy in heaven? If you are with God why would you need human prayers?
5. Ive read books where people claim to have died and then returned to earth and then they tell their stories. Do Catholics believe this is possible or are they just dreaming etc?
6. Are we greeted by angels at the hour of death and do they take us to heaven?
7. Sometimes I almost miss my heavenly home... I can just feel it. Is there any way that we could have been there before. No reincarnation but maybe with God for awhile before we were sent here on this journey?
8. Do Catholics have a rule about cremation? Is that practice ok. And do catholics have to have a church funeral or could they just have a priest at the grave. Im really not morbid about death but these are just questions I have had forever. I just want a deeper meaning of death. So many today think its floating around on clouds. I think it would be a new stage in knowledge and love and growth.
9.I don't believe people who say "they are saved and that is it" I never feel that I am "saved" I feel like I am a work in progress. People tell me that if I feel that way I am not really saved yet. Do Catholics believe that there is a certain moment when you are "saved".
1)Did the Davidic Covenant did abrogate the Mosaic Covenant,or the Mosaic the Abrahamic? Man may break covenants but God does not.
I like to compare God's covenants with man with the creation of the world. What God created on the first day was still there on the sixth and that was true of each succeeding day of creation. Whatever was created on each succeeding day just added and contributed to what preceded it.
Just as what was created by God on the sixth day was the pinnacle and completion of all that came before it, so the Catholic Church is the New Zion, the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ, the fullness and completion of, and pre-eminent to, all that was prior to it, and surpassing (but built upon) what came before it.
As far as your last question (under no. 1), it does no good to speculate on how God will judge a person after death. God is just but we must trust in His great love and mercy.
2)Given the great benefits of baptism versus the alternative,why would you deny to a child what you would with great willingness give to an adult?
3)If the correct from and matter was used, yes.
4)No. However prayers can be said and Masses offered for the person.
For 50 or so years, Catholics in the pews have been informed by their bishops and priests that Mass "with the priest's back to" the congregation constitutes awful liturgy. Between now and Advent 2016 A.D., a tremendous change of heart must take place within the Church to realize Cardinal Sarah's exhortation in question. Okay...we'll see.
But I would expect fierce resistance to Mass ad orientem as that traditional practice would open the door likely to the restoration of various traditional practices to the Novus Ordo...and liberals who control more than a few chanceries can't possibly permit that.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I woke up worried that by my questions I have offended TJM. I would never in the world offend anyone. I grew up in a Baptist church and what bothered me the most was the fire and brimstone God they preached. When the minister would change as they do often in the Baptist Church that minister would have a different God. I notice by the reaction to the Priest in my story and the advice he gave the sister that I guess Catholics are similar. One priest advises this and then another priest would call him a fake Catholic. This is so much like the very thing in my church that hurts. A person gets different messages with the different ministers. I wanted to become a Catholic but I wanted to understand the reasons why some of the rules and feelings apply. Just like in my own church I have discovered that it depends on the minister you talk to. I know this cannot be correct. I know there must be one right way of living. I believe that the oldest foundation the Catholic Church that Jesus founded would be the best bet of correct teaching. I will always look to the Catholic Church even if I am a baptist for what Jesus really means by his laws. People are always going to disagree. Im too old to change my "type of church" but I will never be too old to try to learn correct behavior. I have taken up enough space on this blog you all have helped me understand so much. You are so smart. And to TJM I did not mean to have an audience and I did not mean to create appeal. I don't understand the Nice Try words but I take it that I have offended you. You stated something in Latin and I had to look it up to see what it means. So by speaking Latin you must be a priest I am sorry if I offended you with my true story about a family in my neighborhood. Sarah
Anonymous Baptist, you are off the rails now with your questions. Get the book, "Catholicism for Dummies," and it will answer many of your questions.
Marc, I understand what you are saying. I was mainly pointing out that the Judaeo-Christian religion is of the same origin. But, is it really correct to call Judaism a :false religion? Yes, Jews must enter the Church to be saved.
I don't think TJM is easily offended. But, your questions are becoming impertinent.
Anonymous July 5, 2016 at 10:03 PM. I think the priest gave the sister the wrong advice. The priest should have told the sister she should love her brother but not attend something which is obviously against Catholic Church teaching. I think the mother was correct not to attend the wedding and to discourage others from doing so. However, I don't think the mother was right to not speak to her son or daughter. The mother should have told the son she loves him but that she couldn't attend the "wedding" because of Catholic Church teaching on homosexuality. The priest is a man capable of choosing right from wrong. In this case I believe he made the wrong decision, in that telling the sister to attend the "wedding" could be seen by others as the priest and the sister condoning a grievously sinful act.
Sarah, July 6, 2016 at 4:39 AM TJM may have misinterpreted what you said but I am sure he is not offended but just may not have time to respond to your post.
Catholics have a set of beliefs which are set out in the Catechism. There are some priests of course who take a liberal interpretation of what is in the Catechism. Unfortunately liberal interpretations can lead people astray. The Catechism is pretty straightforward and Catholics should get to know the Catechism so that they know whether the advice they receive is in conformity with Church teaching. It is usually pretty obvious if it isn't and if in doubt the Catholic should seek the advice of another priest. As the Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is a grave sin then the sister mentioned in your story should have known that to attend a "wedding" like that would not be right. She should have realised that the priest who told her to attend was in error. Being a Catholic and conforming to the teachings of Christ isn't easy. Christ told the woman at the well to "Go and sin no more", so I doubt very much that Christ would have told the sister to attend the "wedding".
Anonymous, July 5, 2016 at 10:58 PM Here are my answers to your questions:
1. When we die will we see our parents and will we have the same body as Jesus did wounds and all? No, we will have our own body. We will only see our parents if they are in heaven and if we get to heaven ourselves.
2. When we die will be able to see the face of God? Oh I just think that would be wonderful... We will be in the presence of God and adore Him but I don't know if we will see His face.
3. Some people in my church say that when we die we are angels. I tell them they are incorrect that angels are different from humans. Why are there always pictures of babies as angels? No, the angels are spirits and do not have a body. Babies maybe depicted as angels to show their innocence.
4. I have learned that Catholics pray for the dead. I guess we all do but somehow the Catholics feel that these prayers actually help the dead in some way. Why do the dead need our help aren't they already hopefully happy in heaven? If you are with God why would you need human prayers? Some people such as saints and martyrs go directly to heaven but others go to purgatory where souls go to be purified before they enter heaven. This is the state where Catholics pray that the souls in purgatory may be released. We can help the souls in purgatory with our prayers, good works and sacrifices as the souls in purgatory cannot help themselves.
5. Ive read books where people claim to have died and then returned to earth and then they tell their stories. Do Catholics believe this is possible or are they just dreaming etc? That is a mystery. It is yet to be explained whether they have dreamed the experience or not.
6. Are we greeted by angels at the hour of death and do they take us to heaven? Quite possibly we may see angels at death and even members of our own family, but this is also a mystery which will only be revealed when we die.
7. Sometimes I almost miss my heavenly home... I can just feel it. Is there any way that we could have been there before. No reincarnation but maybe with God for awhile before we were sent here on this journey? No. Life begins at conception when the soul is infused into the embryo by God. Probably what you are experiencing is a yearning for heaven which is a good thing.
8. Do Catholics have a rule about cremation? Is that practice ok. And do catholics have to have a church funeral or could they just have a priest at the grave. Im really not morbid about death but these are just questions I have had forever. I just want a deeper meaning of death. So many today think its floating around on clouds. I think it would be a new stage in knowledge and love and growth. Catholics may be cremated but the preference is burial. Pagans believed in cremation and it was seen as a form of denial of the resurrection of the body so the Church insisted on burial.
9.I don't believe people who say "they are saved and that is it" I never feel that I am "saved" I feel like I am a work in progress. People tell me that if I feel that way I am not really saved yet. Do Catholics believe that there is a certain moment when you are "saved". Christ died on Calvary for our sins and so He saved the human race in that sense. In a nutshell, in order to attain heaven we must keep the 10 commandments and follow the teachings of the Church which encompasses them. We will really only know that we are saved when we enter Heaven because, if we are not careful, we can fall into sin at any time and lose heaven and so not be saved.
Anonymous at 8:09:
I'm not a priest, but I'll attempt to answer the questions Gene hasn't.
4) Re the Last Rites: You're correct that the dead cannot receive sacraments. But don't assume that either the legal definition of death or the clinical definition are either accurate or controlling when it comes to theology and God. For example, up until a century ago people "died" (and were likely legally considered dead) who, with our modern technology, almost certainly could have been resuscitated for several minutes after the apparent death. Further, the clinical and legal definitions will probably continue to change in the future as technology changes. In light of this fact, there's no harm, and the possibility of great spiritual benefit, in assuming (within reason) that the person may still be alive and capable of receiving the Last Rites. As one priest once told me regarding the sacraments, "When in doubt, dish it out." :-)
5) Re levels of heaven, I, too, will leave that to a priest, but here's another way of looking at it. Say you have a shot glass (or since you're Baptist a little individual communion cup) and a huge beer stein. Both can be full, correct? Yet when both are full, one holds more than the other. So there can be souls whom God allows to hold more graces than others. (The idea that each person/soul is the same "size" as every other, e.g., "all men are created equal," is an egalitarian notion that didn't gain a lot of traction until the Enlightenment.) So a little soul can be filled completely with grace, maximizing its full potential, and so obviously be in heaven, yet other souls, whom God has seen fit to make bigger cups, would have in absolute terms more grace. St. Therese of Liseaux, who is a hugely popular saint, even wrote about the "Little Way," a way that "little" souls (such as she believed herself to be) could best serve God and achieve grace. (Turns out that she was a very big soul, which goes to show why we shouldn't get caught up in trying to figure out who have big souls and who have little ones--instead just work on filling the cup and the rest will take care of itself.) Further, the sizes of the cups don't have any relation to our station here on earth. Being a priest doesn't make you into a bigger cup, and it doesn't even guarantee that you go to heaven at all.
I hope that helps.
I am going to play Pope Francis for a moment. Probably more than half of the Catholic clergy in the US (priests and bishops) are in material heresy, ergo, fake priests (not in the sacramental sense but in the spiritual sense). Otherwise the Democratic Party aka the Abortion Party would not DARE to be so vehemently pro death.
Anonymous,
I thank you for your concern. You sound like a very spiritual person struggling and searching for answers which is laudable. Fortunately for the Church, I am not a priest. I considered a vocation but the left-wing loons running the seminary at the time discouraged my pursuing the priesthood. They wanted no one who was orthodox. However, I have been involved until recently with Church Music for some 50 years, starting in a chant choir at age 8 and then moving on to roles in the choir and as cantor. I dropped out because my pastor is a fake catholic priest. He is an Obama drooler and is nothing more than a glorified social worker. He also uses the old Mass translations in defiance of authority.
Anonymous at 10:58,
For an excellent help with the sorts of question you're asking, I would recommend that you take a look at the Baltimore Catechism, which is a good resource: http://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/ and meanwhile here are some brief answers (some briefer than others based on my own expertise or lack thereof).
1) Ultimately, after the final judgement, our physical bodies are reunited with our souls, but they will be transfigured/changed and made glorious.
2) Google "Beatific Vision."
3) You're correct that angels are different from humans. The word "angel" translates as "messenger." In the Renaissance it was the fashion for painters to portray angels as little babies with wing--you'd have to ask an art historian why. But every time an angel appears in the Bible, evidence is they didn't look like little babies because they always (literally) scared the hell out of people who saw them, since the first thing the angels have to say is "fear not" or something of the like. Think of the final scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark for a more biblical idea of angels. :-)
4) There's a very biblical doctrine known as Purgatory. When we die, we're all still sinners, even those of us who are (to put it in Baptist terms) "saved." Since we're still sinful, and nothing sinful may enter into God's presence, we need purification, a time in which we're cured of our attachment to sin. This has been given the shorthand name "Purgatory" by theologians (just like theologians have given the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit the shorthand name "Trinity"--neither of these two words in quotations actually appears in the Bible). But there are several Old and New Testament passages that speak to the need for this purification. During this time, a soul going through purification can benefit from the prayers of others, hence, prayers for the dead. (Given your interest in deeper meaning of death, you might be interested to know that this is the true purpose of a Catholic funeral Mass or Requieum Mass--not to celebrate the life of the deceased but to offer prayers on his behalf to God as he's going through Purgatory.)
Continued next post . . .
Continued . . .
5) See my previous post regarding the time of death. If you come back, then you weren't really dead, if we accept "death" as the point of no return. On the other hand God (of course) can work a miracle (e.g. Christ's resurrection, obviously, plus the raising of Lazarus, Jairus's daughter, Tabitha, etc., but there can also be cases of hallucination since a brain on the threshold of death probably isn't functioning well. Short answer: people's stories of coming back and telling about seeing God or the light, etc., are certainly possible according to Catholic theology, but that doesn't make all of them necessarily true. That's why the church usually investigates these things carefully before ruling on them.
6) That's certainly one function of angels, but immediately after death we are judged by Christ Himself (google particular judgment and general judgment).
7) I don't believe that's Catholic teaching, although the Church recognizes that, being made in the image of God, we have a very natural longing for something that we innately understand--something that we can't attain in this life because our natures, though made in the image of God, are damaged and live in a world damaged by sin.
8) Cremation is allowed as long as it isn't meant as a statement to the effect that there can be no bodily resurrection. For centuries it was banned as many pagan religions had beliefs that didn't include the idea of the resurrection and used cremation.
9) The best way I've hear it put is that I was saved when I was baptized; I'm being saved in that God is at work in my life (and I cooperate with that work, ideally becoming less attached from sin and more full of graces as an ongoing process, despite occasional lapses); and I will be saved upon my death, judgment, and attainment of heaven. Catholics see salvation as a process, not an event, a constant striving to "be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." We certainly don't believe that God robs us of the freedom to turn away from him, that there's a moment when we "get saved" following which we automatically go to heaven no matter what.
Anon. at 8:52 and 4:49,
I think what TJM was getting at is that there is such a thing as false charity. In the case of the gay marriage, if such a "marriage" is actually wrong/sinful, then to be an enabler or do something that would be a sign of approval or encourage the person in his sin wouldn't be a charitable thing to do. This is hard because sexuality is such a huge part of who we are plus society today is pushing us hard to downplay the fact that some aspects of sexuality can be misused, so offense is easily taken when it isn't meant.
I'll also say that there's a huge civil war going on within the Church right now, and there are many, many priests and even bishops who aren't teaching as they should. In that sense the Church is no different from most Protestant denominations. The difference is that in the Catholic Church we have an authentic interpreter of the Bible and Sacred tradition known as the Magisterium, which allows the individual Catholic to know 9at least within limits) when a priest is teaching or preaching something contrary to Catholic belief. (In fact, most of the major heresies in Christian history have been started by priests and bishops).
There are many occasions when a person can get conflicting advice from different priests without this being a problem--these are pastoral differences when neither priest has the "right" answer. On other occasions, though, one priest can be clearly right (for instance, we believe in one God) and another priest clearly wrong (we believe in three Gods). With time, as a Catholic, you can learn to spot the difference in the two situations.
There are no levels of heaven. Heaven is the state of perfection. You cannot have different levels of perfect.
Anonymous July 5, 2016 at 8:09 PM
2. "Why are infants baptized when they are so young and have no idea what baptism means."
I will offer a further comment on this beyond my previous comment.
Some religious denominations wait until a person is mature enough to give their consent or profession of faith before conferring baptism.
However, St Augustine had a good insight on infant baptism which goes something like the following:
If the child or infant did not consent to the condition (the Sin of Adam) that necessitated baptism in the first place, why would the child's consent be necessary to receive the sacrament?
Given the necessity of baptism to wipe away Original sin and initiate one into the life of Christ, why delay in conferring it?
Anonymous, you're free to believe there aren't different levels in heaven. But the Catholic Church teaches that there are.
The . . . Council of Florence (1439) declared the souls of the perfectly just clearly behold the Triune and One God as he is, but corresponding to the difference of their merits, the one more perfectly than the other. The Council of Trent defined that the justified person merits an increase of the heavenly glory by good works. (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 479)
So, Anonymous, you are right and Aquinas is wrong...cool.
Alter Anonymous, Re: Heresies started by Bishops and Priests...
A little Irish boy said to his dad at breakfast, "I had a terrible dream, Dad. I dreamed I went to the Bad Place."
His father replied, "Well, son, what was it like?"
Boy says, "I nearly froze to death."
Father says, "I thought the Bad Place was supposed to be hot."
Boy says, "Yeah, but I couldn't get to the fire for the Bishops."
There is only one God just as there is only one sun for our earth. Now we know because it has been revealed to us through our senses that the sun has a certain shape and a brightness and a certain appearance and also that it illuminates other objects so we can see them and know certain things about them. Now the sun we observe is the same one that the blind man lives under except that he cannot observe these things and so does not know what we know. Still, he does receive some benefits despite this.
We know something of the nature of the True God because for those of faith He has revealed certain things to us and we also know having been enlightened by faith that He came down and took on human flesh and a soul to dwell among us, as he still does today in the Eucharist. Now there are many false doctrines outside the Church and there are many that believe these false teachings and so do not have full knowledge know the nature of the True God. They worship a God they do not know, since there can only be one God. They are spiritually blind(unless there be
some mysterious and miraculous action by God on their soul) but not necessarily intentionally or obstinately so.
Now for these particular ones who do not know the True faith, we can hope and persevere in prayer, just as we do for ourselves and others. We know by faith and teaching that Christ is the Head of the Church and we comprise the body. Is it not better to take on a positive and hopeful attitude that despite those members
of the Body of Christ not doing their part in praying and evangelizing to bring others to the Church, that those who are doing their part, whether they be few or great in number, can then make up for what is lacking? That God accepts what they do as a worthy offering and so acts with His Divine Mercy toward those who need it the most? Is it not also within the realm of our Faith and understanding that Christ Himself, being a merciful God and having all power, can in ways where we are lacking, beyond the scope of our even our most sublime thoughts, in ways mysterious to us, graft others onto His Body?
We, through our spiritually worthy efforts, our prayers,sufferings, sacrifices, and offerings, can help by the grace of God to bring about repentance in the sinner and conversion of the unbeliever, because our spiritual works have been given great value from the Divine Treasury which was filled by the merits of Christ's Suffering and Death. God has made us co-operators with Him in the salvation of the world. He has done so much for us, even sending His Son to suffer and die so that we can have eternal life. Is it to much to expect for us to do something in return,
given that He has made available to us in His Church all that we need to accomplish His Holy and Divine Will?
There are not different levels of heaven (or hell for that matter)? This seems to contradict the concept of an all just God. Thankfully there are many verses in the Bible that offer guidance. Here are couple. More should be unnecessary.
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds. Mt 16:27
But, sitting at my right hand or my left is not mine to give. That is for those to whom it has been reserved by my Father. Mt 20:23
Every soul in heaven is made perfectly just by the merits of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Not the slightest imperfection enters heaven; hence, all in heaven are equally perfect, as perfection does not admit of degrees.
There are no different levels in heaven.
Michael A, that says nothing about whether or not there are levels in Heaven. The Church does, in fact, teach that there are levels of angels, etc, but not as we understand them. It is not something i would worry about.
Everyone is certainly proudly trumpeting their ignorance of Catholic teaching. The fact that there may be levels of angels, etc. does not imply imperfection....unless you are a Neo-Platonist, which is also heresy.
Questions:
1. My baptist minister says that there is no reference in the Bible to Purgetory. How do Catholics know about Purgetory? Do other religions believe in purgatory?
2.Why do Catholics have a dead Jesus on their cross. (No disrespect) A baptist cross is plain to indicate that he is no longer suffering on the cross but has risen.
3. What if a Catholic cannot afford or does not live near a Catholic School. Do most Catholic children attend Catholic Schools?
4. What is the difference in a Monk and a Priest? Is a Monk a Priest?
5. After retirement can a Catholic Priest marry?
6. I have read in history books that long ago Catholic Priests could marry some even had children. Why did that change?
7. Whee does a Catholic Priest go after retirement? Will he have enough money to be comfortable. Will the church take care of him?
8. Are priests who have very little given any money by the bishops to visit Rome. It seems like all priests would want so badly to go to Rome.
9. No disrespect but why can't a priest marry and have children of his own.
10. When a priest is moved to another church can he ask not to go. What if he is sent to another Country away from his family?
11. I know it is tradition but why is the mass sometimes said in Latin Wouldn't that be hard to understand or follow in a book. No disrespect but wouldn't especially Children have a hard time understanding latin. Wouldn't they miss what they were supposed to learn. Thank you Friends Baptist Sarah
Gene July 6, 2016 at 6:46 PM - I love it!
Gene
My quotes indicate that Christ addressed the issue of levels or equality in heaven and confirm that we are not all equal, but we are all justly judged by God. I suppose some people believe that they will hold the same position as St. Peter but I'm not one of them.
Anonymous 8:22,
If there are not different levels in heaven, how do you understand Christ's words in Matthew chapters 16 & 20?
Michael A, I see what you were saying now. I think I misread your post. Sorry.
Baptist Sarah, why your pastor says there is no reference to Purgatory in the bible is that the Protestant bible does not contain the book of Macabees - 14 books were removed from the Protestant bible by Martin Luther as the following explains:
"Luther chose to move a group of books called the Apocrypha (or Deuterocanon) to a separate section between the Old and New Testament. These books included: Tobit, Judith, additions to the Book of Esther, the Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Song of the Three Children, Story of Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, Prayer of Manasses, 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabee. Luther removed 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras altogether.
He did this for a couple reasons. One is that he disagreed with a few doctrines the Roman Catholic Church derived from these books, like Purgatory and prayers for the dead. Another was that they were not found in the Masoretic Text (the Jewish canon.)
Other Protestant Reformers removed them altogether and most Protestants (except for Anglicans/Episcopalians and Lutherans) use a Bible that doesn't have the Apocrypha. That is why there is variance between the Protestant and Roman Catholic Bibles."
So Luther who was a Catholic, left the Church and didn't believe in Purgatory removed those books that the teaching on Purgatory is based on.
You can find an article on Purgatory and what books of the bible the teaching is based on:
http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-purgatory-in-the-bible
Baptist Sarah, why Catholics have a crucifix rather than plain cross is tied up with the Mass, which Catholics believe is the unbloody sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ. The following answers your question more fully:
Other churches "that use the crucifix are the Orthodox Churches, some Anglican/Episcopalian parishes, and some Lutheran churches. You might find a crucifix in a few other Protestant churches, but they would be few and far between.
There are several reasons why the Catholic Church (and others) use the crucifix as a symbol of our faith and others do not. These reasons include:
Paul’s statement in 1 Corinthians 1:23, “we proclaim Christ crucified.” Christ’s crucifixion is something we find beautiful, because it is the high point of his sacrifice for us.
The crucifix is a symbol of what is happening in our liturgy – the re-presentation of the cross in a non-bloody manner on the altar in the form of the Eucharist.
Many Protestant denominations went through a period of clearing out art and religious symbols for fear of violating the second commandment (in the Protestant listing of the 10 Commandments, which differs from the Catholic one) of not having graven images and of appearing too “Catholic”.
Many Protestant denominations emphasize the Resurrection over the crucifixion. Neither is complete in-and-of-itself, but each place a different emphasis on a part of the whole act of salvation offered by Christ.
Thus, because our belief in what goes on in Mass is very different (The Eucharist), our emphasis and symbols are very different from many of our Protestant brothers and sisters. This does not mean that Catholics fail to see the significance of the Resurrection or that Protestants fail to see the importance of the cross. We all know that the cross is the most recognized symbol of our faith.
There are many benefits to having visual signs of our faith. We are able to focus better in prayer when we have the visual representations of what Christ did for us, all (especially those unable to read) can see depictions of the life of Christ, etc. We are bodily creatures and our prayers should be both bodily and spiritual.
The Catechism says:
617 “The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ’s sacrifice as “the source of eternal salvation” and teaches that “his most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us.” And the Church venerates his cross as she sings: “Hail, O Cross, our only hope.””"
Baptist Sarah
There are of course very good answers to all your questions, but they are not simplistic and you really need to research them yourself. You belong to a Protestant denomination which can be traced at the earliest only back to 1609, which has no liturgy, no priesthood, no developed sacramental theology, no claims to Apostolic succession, no agreement even amongst yourselves as to what to believe, no Magisterium, no real leadership;
and which relies on a 'sola scriptura' interpretation which ignores the fact that the Church founded by Jesus Christ predates the New Testament and that the canon of the NT was only fixed (by the Catholic Church, incidentally) in the 4th century AD - round about the time that the liturgical language of Western Christendom changed from Greek to Latin.
You are in effect looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
The Vatican statement, issued on the evening of July 11 by Federico Lombardi, S.J., director of the Holy See Press Office, said “there are no new liturgical directives starting from next Advent, as someone has improperly deduced from some words of Cardinal Sarah, and it is better to avoid using the expression ‘the reform of the reform,’ referring to the liturgy, given that this has sometimes been the source of misunderstanding.”
The Vatican statement declared that “all this was expressly agreed during a recent audience given by the pope to the said Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship.” That meeting took place last Saturday, July 9, as reported in the Press Office bulletin.
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