Tuesday, September 9, 2014

OF ALL THE NONSENSICAL LITURGICAL ITEMS BEING MARKETED AND VOODOO POTATO CHIPS, NEW ORLEAN'S STYLE

I had the chips for lunch and were goolishly good. The paten for sale from a religious goods store has a clip to upright and display the Host at Mass especially at the Per Ipsum and Ecce Agnus Dei! What do you think of both?

Fr. Jason Adams, St. James parish, Savannah:


13 comments:

Joe Potillor said...

Not really a fan of the raised paten, unless you're going to use it for intinction ;)

Joseph Johnson said...

I much prefer to see the host held over the chalice at the "Ecce Agnus Dei." It's just part of that EF sensibility which should also apply to the OF.

The part about the potato chips reminds me of story that my father told me from his boyhood in Lanier County, Georgia in the 1940's. My dad and his younger brother, Bennie were walking along a county dirt road with their cousin (also Catholic), Pat O'Brien. Pat was lucky enough to have bag of potato chips and dad and uncle Bennie asked Pat to share with them. Pat said, "OK I'll give them to you like Communion (one at a time on the tongue). When Pat did so, he apparently did not know the Latin blessing that the priest gave when distributing Communion (Corpus Domini Nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam.Amen--May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ preserve your soul unto life everlasting. Amen) so Pat gave an aped "pig Latin" version. Dad's imitation of Pat doing this made for a funny story.

Fr John said...

I don't think it's for the elevation(s) - minor or otherwise. I think it's for exposition (following mass).

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

I don't think so fr. John as the host would not be enclosed on glass.

JBS said...

I suppose it's possible to use this contraption when "the priest takes the paten with the host and the chalice" at the Doxology. But at the Ecce Agnus Dei, I don't see how using this thing could be considered "holding it above the paten". I also don't see how it could be used for solemn Exposition, since it fails to elevate the Sacred Host sufficiently high. Unless it has some Eastern use, I'd say sell it to a country club for use as an ashtray.

Pater Ignotus said...

I have no idea what that contraption is for and those chips were stale.

John Nolan said...

The large dish-like ciborium/paten is fairly common in the Novus Ordo and has antecedents in the first millennium. I've seen priests elevate it along with the Host after the Consecration (there's nothing in the rubrics to say they shouldn't, but it's an innovation nonetheless).

JJ, in the EF at the Ecce Agnus Dei the priest does not hold the Host over the chalice (he has already consumed the Precious Blood) but takes a Host out of the ciborium and shows It to the people. In the OF he has the option of holding the two halves of the Host over the paten or the chalice; since they are already on the paten the first option makes more sense.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

I was going to make the same response. In the EF though the use of a ciborium with a sermon which makes it look like a chalice has the symbolism of the Body and Bllod of Christ present in the Consecrated Host alone.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Dang that auto correct! With a stem not a sermon!

Joseph Johnson said...

John Nolan and Fr. McDonald,
I thought about it being a ciborium rather than a chalice after I wrote that and I even checked myself in a EF hand missal (which says nothing about the chalice at the Ecce)and looked at images of the Ecce in the EF one of which appeared to show the chalice being held up with a ciborium with the lid rim sitting on the altar--confusing, to say the least). You're both right, of course, it is the ciborium after all but if a chalice with the Precious Blood were used it would still mean the same thing (This IS the Lamb of God, etc).

Anyway, my mistake. This is part of the problem when one doesn't get the chance to get to the EF Mass as often as he might like--we don't always remember things as they actually are. This also happens, often in negative way, with people who haven't been to a Tridentine Mass in 50 years or so.

Joseph Johnson said...

In reviewing the segmented EF instructional video by the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius, it shows the priest using the paten under the Host for the Ecce rather than a ciborium (I guess either could be used?). I had always been used to seeing the "stemmed" ciborium used for this.

Incidentally, I was always used to seeing the stemmed ciborium used with a lid and the four-flapped veil (over the little cross on the top of lid) in the liturgical color used when the Blessed Sacrament was reserved when I was growing up. I still see these veils being used on the ciborium on the EWTN OF Masses and I supposed they are still being used in many EF settings.

Why did these also fall into disuse?

JBS said...

Joseph Johnson,

In a Low Mass with only the celebrant and minister, but no congregation, the ciborium is not used at all.

JBS said...

Joseph Johnson,

The veils of Catholicism and ancient Israel reveal, like wrapping paper on a present, that something special is inside. As confidence in the "specialness" of liturgical vessels declined, so too did use of tabernacle veils, chalice veils, ciborium veils, and in an analogs way even veils for female congregants.