I was blown away by Anonymous who commented on March 24 at 9:58 PM on Sacrosanctum Concilium and the Reform.... He is an 18 year old and made some rather profound and insightful comments concerning Vatican II and the state of young people his age today. Read his comment there. But in terms of young people's indifferentism he observes the following:
"I am an 18 year old male. I do agree that most (around 75%) of Catholic youth are disinterested in the Church, and I honestly believe this is the Church's own fault. I will, however, make one point. I do know several very interested Catholic youth (16-24) in my parish and online, and the funny thing is that we all prefer the EF, we all like Catholic tradition, and we all love strong and teaching-rich homilies. So it is true that most Catholic youth are disenchanted, but the ones who remain committed are strangely all very similar in liturgical preferences and otherwise..."
I think Fr. Dawid Kwiatkowski would also observe along with me that our young people for the most part seem indifferent to the faith, even those in our Catholic High School. They are good kids, but don't seem to have a fire in their belly for the Catholic faith, nor do they seem to have a sense of "awe and wonder" in the presence of God. Does it boil down to a lack of proper transmission of the faith and spirituality of the Church as well as a strong devotion and reverence toward God? Does the modern Mass fail to communicate to them through powerful signs the reverence that is due to God? Is there "fear of God" as one understands this as a "Gift of the Holy Spirit?" The law of prayer is the law of belief and if the law is corrupted in some form belief will also be corrupted.
The teenagers that I observe as being the most interested in the Faith of the Church and her strong spirituality and devotional life are teenagers who have parents who take a vital interest in forming their children in the ways of faith and do so at home with a powerful "home Catholic spirituality." In other words they don't leave it to others to form their children in the ways of faith; they do it themselves and through a variety of ways.
The three classes of teenagers that I have found most on fire for Jesus Christ and His Church in my 32 years of ministry are the following:
1. In Augusta, children formed by parents in a charismatic covenant community. They loved community, but more importantly they love the Lord and are willing to be followers of Him. I'm not particularly enamored with charismatic spirituality that is more Protestant than Catholic and I don't personally care for worship and praise music, especially of the charismatic kind, but something wonderful happens in these kinds of close nit communities, similar to strong ethnic (ghetto) Catholic parishes of the first half of the 20th century. My fervent prayer for the Alleluia Community is that it would move from its charismatic spirituality (which today is a bit dated) to an Extraordinary Form spirituality. But the Lord hasn't answered my prayer yet. But the Catholic kids there are very well catechized in the truths of the faith.
2. Home Schooled Catholic kids seem to be more on fire and interested in their faith too. I'm very impressed with the children of parents who use Catholic homeschooling programs, such as Seton, or any home schooling with an emphasis too on the Catholic Faith. These kids are well formed in the spirituality and traditions of the Church and they don't have to be inundated with peer pressure to appear indifferent to the Faith. I find home schooled kids to be very well rounded and sociable and know how to relate appropriately and respectfully around adults. Oh, and Seton Home Schooling curriculum uses the Baltimore Catechism for religion. I wonder if that is the elephant in the room that explains the inexplicable interest home schooling teenagers have for the faith. Of course, home schooling implies very dramatically that parents are involved intimately in all aspects of their children's education including religious formation. That is the key!
3. Teenagers who are searching for truth on their own and personally answer God's call by doing research on their own and turning to God and the Catholic Church to give their lives meaning and purpose seem to be very interested in the Church.They may be going through some kind of crisis and Catholicism is where God's actual grace has led them to find the healing, direction and purpose of life they need.
I'd like the 18 year old I note above to let us know how he became so interested in the Catholic faith, in terms of his educational and parental background.
Now to something else off-topic but maybe related:
Sacrosanctum Concilium states the following rather explicitly, although, in the modern liturgy, this Vatican II teaching has truly been ignored by modern priests who use the liturgy for their own purposes:
3. "Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority."
I don't know if there is anything official, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that with the two forms of the one Roman Rite allowed today, that there should not be mixing and matching of the two forms but respect for the two forms as they are currently designed to be celebrated according the rubrics and general instruction of each. Does anyone know of any official statement on this?
If so, this would seem to imply that the Ordinary Form is indeed a rupture with what is the basis for its reform, the Extraordinary Form, since the Ordinary Form is in fact a reform to the latter. Does this not in fact confirm the fact that there has been a rupture in how the EF Mass was reformed?
But my question concerns the OF Mass and the EF's influence upon how it can be celebrated today.Technically there is no rubric stating that either form has to be celebrated ad orientem or toward the people. One can face the altar and face the people at the same time, St. Peter's is an example. No matter what side of a free standing altar you are on, you are facing it.
However, can the following be added to the OF Mass?:
1. When celebrating ad orientem, each time the priest turns toward the congregation, may he kiss the altar as a priest must do in the EF?
2. When celebrating ad orientem, may the Collect and Post Communion Prayer be said/chanted at the Epistle side of the Altar?
3. When consecrating the Host and Precious Blood, may two genuflections as in the EF Mass be practiced for each consecration as in the EF Mass?
4. May the priest add yet another genuflection after the "Great Amen" which screams for a genuflection in the OF Mass (and was customary early on in the OF Mass, because it was prescribed in the 1965 missal which changed the rubric of the Per Ipsum and made it like the 1973 missal's ritual for it.
5. May the Penitential Act be prayed with the congregation kneeling and the priest bowing? May the profound bow of the "Incarnatus Est" of the Credo be replaced with the EF's genuflection at all OF Masses when the Creed is chanted or recited?
Can the following be allowed in the EF Mass?
1. There is explicit permission for the Scriptures to be read in the vernacular in the Low Mass without having to read them first in Latin. Does this extend to the Introit, Offertory and Communion Antiphons as well as the Last Gospel as these are Scripture too?
2. Is it allowed to read or chant the readings in the normal parish High Mass (sung) when there is no deacon or sub deacon? I believe the High Mass without deacon and sub deacon is a pastoral solution for parishes to have a sung Mass, when these parishes have no deacons and sub deacons. Am I correct about this?
23 comments:
Fire in the belly and the young person who posted earlier: I expect he is home schooled or his parents are recent converts. Home schooled kids tend to have popular culture screened out I think children and the adults that are the result of VatII believe they can get what they need from the secular world. This will sound tiresome to many, but a liberal Government along with a liberal Church breads apathy toward God. If we can get the Government to take care of our worldly needs then they believe we have done God's will on earth. Since God is unknowable, then trying to understand Him is a waste of time. This is Social and Christian Democrats in Europe today and largely in the USA. You pick your religion out of aesthetics and they are all the same and none have the Truth.
As far as 'mixing' OF and EF. If that rule exists it may be to ensure the priest does not use a cafeteria approach to the MAss. Ironically this is hall mark of the OF when it strives to be more inclusive.
rcg
Sara Ann said,
I am 14 yrs. old, and I recently got confirmed. My daddy is Joseph Johnson who comments sometimes. He as taken me and my family to the Latin Mass a few times, and I enjoyed it. It seems so much more Reverent and Sacred than just the OF. Think about what EF stands for Extraordinary Form and that's just what God is right? So why do we need to change things about church all of the time. We should be trying to preserve history and tradition.
I agree with Father McDonald's postings. I am homeschooled even though it's not the Catholic. It is called Georgia Cyber Academy. I take Latin which they don't offer in regular schools.I know lots of roots and suffixes, so I could figure out the latin in the EF. It also allows me to go to daily mass sometimes.
I get frustrated with how other students in my Sunday school class don't know the answers to the questions. So I'm usually the only one who knows the answer. Most of the time my teacher says "Oh put your hand down i know you know it Sara!" These questions aren't hard questions, either, they are simple questions about the faith. Like one time someone didn't know that Mary was the mother of God. Another asked what protestants were and then asked then what are we? My teacher was good it was mainly their parents at fault. On my confirmation the bishop asked us about our Saint and almost all of them didn't know what theirs did. One even said that their saint was Jesus's sister! There are only a few from my class like me who went up there and spit out a whole paragraph. I was completely embarassed for my pastor, because he is the best priest we've ever had in my opinion. So like I said it's not their fault or the teacher's it is the parents. Most didn't want to be there, so they didn't pay attention.
It is a standard observation nowadays that most Catholic youth are disinterested in liturgy, but that the "best and brightest" are traditionally inclined (whether EF or OF) once they've been exposed to traditional liturgy. This is reflected in the widely reported fact that most current Catholic seminarians are interested in the EF.
As for your questions, the answer to #1 is No. I don't understand #2. Of course, the principal Sunday Mass (if EF) would be a Missa Cantata (sung high Mass), which is essentially the solemn form of high Mass, celebrated without deacon and subdeacon, but with much of the ceremonial (e.g., incense) of a solemn Mass. Of course in this case, the rubrics specify that the reading and gospel are to be chanted by the celebrant. Or were you asking whether in a missa cantata the introit, gradual, and antiphons could also be chanted by the celebrant? (But why? What would the choir do, act like a potted plant?)
Not every home can be the ideal teacher of the faith that we'd like it be.
Most homes can do better, but before we parent-bash too much, we must recognize that there are limitations that the parents themselves cannot always control.
Secondly, the parents need to be inspired first, so that they have something to pass along to the children.
This is where real preaching and teaching is needed. 'Feel good' homilies are fine if they are occassional, and the norm is catechetical homilies. Teachers who don't know the faith can't inspire their students.
It indeed takes a village, with each members doing his/her best. That way when one part's best is less than ideal, all is not lost because the others are able to compensate to a degree.
Plus, somehow in the midst of all this, hearts must not be ignored.
Knowledge alone is just knowledge.
Re: Mixing of Rites:
Universae Ecclesiae
24. The liturgical books of the forma extraordinaria are to be used as they are. All those who wish to celebrate according to the forma extraordinaria of the Roman Rite must know the pertinent rubrics and are obliged to follow them correctly.
This addresses the mixing of the OF into the EF. Suffice it to say, in the EF the rubrics and customs in force in 1962 are to be followed strictly. The not following of this rule is a major problem unleashed by Summorum Pontificum that the Holy Father does not want.
As for the EF into the OF, Summorum Pontificum says: "The most sure guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives. This will bring out the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal.". So, the Holy Father implicitly says he wants the EF to influence the reverence in the OF.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Father, the priests at St John Cantius in Chicago celebrate both forms of the Mass. They might be able to answer your questions.
Thank you father. I was beginning to think that it was forbidden by the Diocese of Savannah to homeschool one's children. Your words of support are appreciated (albeit rarely heard).
Catholic schools (and those who run them) need not fear the presence of Catholic homeschoolers. There's not enough room in the Catholic schools anyway.
I want to chime in again on the questions Father raised about the EF.
Question 1:
Universae Ecclesiae says: "26. As foreseen by article 6 of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, the readings of the Holy Mass of the Missal of 1962 can be proclaimed either solely in the Latin language, or in Latin followed by the vernacular or, in Low Masses, solely in the vernacular."
Henry can correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but one should consider the custom in force in 1962. In the US, I believe the readings were always done in Latin and then (possibly) read in English from the ambo prior to the announcements and homily. In other countries, like France for example, the readings were read only in the vernacular as a result of their local custom.
Question 2:
Here's what the Codex Rubricarum says (paragraph 514):
"[The celebrant] is bound... to sing the parts proper to the sacred ministers [that would include the Gospel]... If [the Epistle] is not sung by a lector, it suffices the celebrant read it without singing it, but he may sing the Epistle in the usual way."
The Codex Rubricarum is here in English:
http://maternalheart.org/library/1962rubrics.pdf
Father, you may also want to check out http://www.sanctamissa.org
Interesting to know that the pope actually celebrates mass ad orientem at the basilica of St. Peter. It was easier to change the altar to face eastward rather than to rotate the basilica. Google map the Vatican and you can see that the pope faces east at mass every time.
The catholic schools in the Diocerse of Savannah have plenty of room for students.
I am the young guy. As to your questions about the OF, Father, I don't think any of those would be permissible with current law. About the EF, I think not to number one, and I know the answer is yes for number two. I've been to many/seen many high (priest only) masses online in which the priest chants the readings, rather than just reading them. In fact I think that is the norm.
As to the first half of your blog post:
Teenagers and young adults today want an experiential religion (smells and bells please!). They want a pious religion. They want a religion in which every little minute action and word in the worship feels like it is truly important. Catholic masses, on average, do not meet this goal. OF masses, IMO, feel very disjointed and contrived and perhaps even fake in how they are most commonly celebrated. I think this is mostly due to the touchy-feely gooey way OFs are usually celebrated. I understand the liturgical history of the past 50 years, and I understand the reasons people had such high hopes for the "new mass" (they were propagandized). And, at least in a hypothetical sense, I can imagine an imaginary existence in which our current state of affairs could probably work--although not now, not in our world. So I understand why people ate it up, and why Catholics of my mother's generation and up are still so romantically enamored (and I use those words quite literally, as it seems they're almost in a worshipful, obsessive love affair) with "Vatican II." I think so many older Catholics have made a God out of Vatican II rather than using Vatican II as a modest tool to get TO God. I think that's the simple truth. Once we accept that foundational morsel, I think we can really start to rectify things.
About me. I live in South Carolina in a medium-sized town with two Catholic parishes of stable size. We are soon selling both structures, one of which is a Gothic structure and which I will be sad to see go, in order to build a new church. And I am glad to say that we are salvaging the high altar, pedestal baptistry, the stained glass (one window has a cardinal in cappa magna), and some other things, and it will be a cruciform church, Deo gratias. The priests are Redemptorists and are very good homily-wise. Neither of my parents are Catholic, although my grandmother is. What first drew me to the Church was the unsurpassed intellectual excellence and passion for academic precision, and my fantastical ideas of what a mass might look like. The former turned out to be true, the latter turned out to be a false hope fueled by Hollywood movies for me. It's pretty funny that you'll still see old, beautiful, gigantic structures for churches and priests singing Latin (in cassock) and billowing clouds of almost voracious incense in films when they try to portray Catholicism... That is stereotypically "Catholic stuff." And yet, how many parishes do that stuff? Very few. The EF parishes do it all the time, and an occasional good OF parish like St. Josephs does it regularly as well. We need to stop being afraid of being Latin Catholics and sit up, shut up, and reclaim our identity. There is nothing more unattractive about a religion than a religion that is afraid of its own identity. It's sad that I learned probably 5% of my Catholic knowledge from my parish and something like 95% of it online. Tsk, tsk.
I want to speak for a minute about inculturation. Inculturation is very unattractive to me, especially as an American, considering that there aren't very many desirable traits in American society that I'd like the Church here to emulate. In fact, I'd like the Church to stay as far-removed from American society as possible. I do not want the Church's culture to conform to my culture, I want my culture to conform to the Church's culture, and I say that generically, as in, I think I'd have the same attitude even if I wasn't an American.
As to those young ones who are on "fire" for Jesus Christ and the Church, count me down for #3. Though I was not a teenager when I began my search, I was a young twenty year old.
My thoughts on those who come from charismatic backgrounds, such emotional passion is certainly a positive thing to have, but if it's only emotional--with no or little intellect behind the faith--then problems can arise for such persons. Namely, the lost of faith because the "emotion" is no longer there. Emotions are fickle and can change with a blink of an eye.
I believe the intellectual formation of the truth in the existence of God and how God works in the Church is not only enough to give young or old the fire for Jesus and the Church. This, furthermore, also better keeps the fire alive for such persons. Intellectually grasping the truth of the Church doesn't fade like emotions. No matter how happy, tired, and depressed I get, I can know that 2 + 2 = 4. I don't have to have any emotional connection to know that particular mathematical truth. I don't have to "feel" happy to know God exists and works through the Church, because I "know" this to be true.
In short, I believe mere charismatic faith is much more susceptible of erosion than intellectual faith. However, when you combine charismatic faith with intellectual faith, then you have real fire that is much harder to put out.
Anonymous at 8:39,
What you say may be true but that doesn't mean a whole lot to those of us who don't live in Savannah, Macon, Augusta, Brunswick or Valdosta.
Up until the mid-1970's, we had a Catholic school in Waycross. I was one of the last to go through all the grades there (K-8). It appears that, at one time, we may have had several others in much smaller places, such as Lakeland, GA.
I don't mean to sound ungrateful for what we do have (a very fine priest in residence at our parish). I actually prefer living in a rural area outside of the small town I where I work. I just stubbornly wish that the smaller places could still have some of the things that only the larger places have now (such as a Catholic school and regular access to the EF Mass--which, in the case of the EF, is currently limited to Savannah and Macon, with rare occasional exception!). Of course, I also with we still had passenger rail service and a shoe shop that half-soles leather dress shoes in Waycross as well. This hopefully explains why I often see the present time in history as devolved (in many ways) and something less than what we had in the past!
Perhaps if teenagers had a mission and that would be the Great Commission. This would teach them evangelization and apologetics. Even if it didn't procure any candidates or catechumens it would give a tangible struggle in mission. We are never taught or encouraged anything at all about evangelization. We're scared of offending and there is so much to Catholicism we're scared of getting something wrong. When confronted, our apologetics fail us. We know the famous Francis quote, "Evangelize always use words when necessary" That may have worked for him but he didn't have to deal with Baptist, Jehovah Witness and Mormons. Teenagers have a lot to deal with pressures (real and misperceived) some sort of mission, test of intellect and defense of faith may well be a fire that ignites within.
Three cheers for Sara Ann! Hip, hip...
"Intransigence and Indifference" should be the name of my parish.
You mean like, "Our Lady of Intransigence" or "The Shrine of Holy Indifference?" LOL!
This blog sums up fairly well the mediocrity in the typical suburban parish, despite the new English translation. I especially like the first comment.
This blog sums up fairly well the mediocrity in the typical suburban parish, despite the new English translation. I especially like the first comment.
Thanks Father Shelton! .... I didn't mean to sound like I was bragging I just wanted to share some of my experiences since this post is about Catholic youth and the Mass. I guess I'm like my daddy and I like to share my opinions. :)
I think the idea of commissioning older teenagers and young adults as evangelizers and catechists of non-Catholics of their generation is a good thing.
There aren't a ton of young, fired-up Catholics, but those who do belong to that group are arguably the most faithful and well-catechized Catholics on the face of the earth, and that is because they have had to catechize themselves, because their parents and parishes have failed them.
Thanks Sara Ann for your witness too. God bless you, there if always hope if there is only one young person on fire!!!!
Thanks Too, Father McDonald! :)
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