To say it was glorious is an understatement. I want to thank our combined choirs under the direction of Ms. Nelda Chapman and our assistant organist Mr. Harold McManus and our adult EF servers, our Deacon Don Coates and our Parochial Vicar, Fr. Dawid Kwiatkowksi. Fr. Dawid acting as the deacon chanted the Gospel in Latin flawlessly. I've only heard the Gospel sung in Latin this way since Vatican II in Rome, never in little old Georgia! But of course it took a Polish priest to do it in Georgia. My Latin chanting of the Collect, Preface and Post Communion Prayers wasn't bad either if I do say so my self!
There is no doubt in my mind that Pope Benedict should be made a saint for allowing the older order of the Mass back into common use. It is a no-brainer!
I had people come to me after Mass with tears in their eyes saying how much they felt they were in heaven. In fact I believe the Orthodox have a saying that if the Lord's Second Coming occurred while people were at Divine Liturgy, they wouldn't know the difference!
The EF Mass is more closely aligned with the Eastern Orthodox liturgy in ethos and spirituality. The same holds true of the EF's Solemn Form we celebrated tonight. True ecumenism means recovering the ethos and spirituality of the Western Liturgy which is more similar to the Orthodoxy's experience of liturgy than what the post Vatican II renewal of the Liturgy is. The post Vatican II renewal of the Liturgy pandered to the Protestant Reformation's deconstruction of the liturgy and the priesthood (both are intimately tied together)and thus moved us away from the Orthodox Church which has more in common with the faith and morals of the Catholic Church than most Protestant Churches have with the Catholic Church.
If ecumenism is to work to bring about Christian Unity, shouldn't the first schism in that unity be addressed first? Why did Vatican II move us further away from the Orthodox when it should have moved us closer to them? Nothing makes this more evident that the "Protestantization" of our Catholic Mass and spirituality after Vatican II. But again, the real question is, "Did Vatican II actually intend that or those who designed things as they came to be after Vatican II?" That's the question that Pope Benedict has asked and it is a very good question with very important ramifications about ecumenism.
As it concerns ecumenism and SSPX, we in the Latin Rite should be rejoicing that there may well be a full integration of the SSPX with Rome and thus all of the Church in union with Rome. Are you rejoicing over that or are you anti-ecumenical when it comes to the SSPX but not so when it comes to the Presbyterians and Episcopalians who today have theologies and doctrines that are diametrically opposed to the Catholic Faith? If you love Protestant ecumenism but not that with the SSPX and the Eastern Orthodox, that says a great deal about my premise, doesn't it?
Pictures and possibly a video to be posted later!
25 comments:
I'm sure it was glorious. Do you have a video of the "solemn" OF yet?
Last week's St. Joseph's Mass video is in Houston being formatted for the internet. I hope it will be posted very soon!
This is an email I received from a parishioner who wrote it shortly after he arrived home from this Mass:
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:52 PM
To: Father Allan McDonald
Cc: Father Dawid Kwiatkowski; Don Coates; Nelda Chapman
Subject: Annunciation of the Lord
Dear Father McDonald, Fr. Dawid, Deacon Don, Nelda:
Susan and I both thought the Mass tonight was wonderful. All the
participants seemed as if they do a Solemn High Mass everyday. The
music was so beautiful it brought tears to my tired old eyes at least
twice. For those who did not attend, not being there was a great loss for each of them.
Thank you for continuing to make our Catholic faith so special here in Macon.
Sincerely in faith,
Jack
Awesome! Can't wait for the pictures.
It would be great if we could get a Byzantine Catholic priest to have a Divine Liturgy for us in Macon. It would be an educational, eye-opening experience. Some folks have heard that we believe the same thing but have no idea how their different Liturgy is. Selfishly I would like to receive communion in the Byzantine Rite since I can't in an Orthodox Church.
Qwikness,
Fr. Nicholas Mansell, of our Diocese, once celebrated a Ruthenian Eastern Rite Mass (ad orientem) in Waycross. People here still talk about that Mass!
I may be wrong, but years ago before I got here, Fr. Dan Munn celebrated the Greek Catholic Liturgy (Byzantine Liturgy) of the Eastern Rite here at St. Joseph. If I could be assured of a good turn out for such, I could easily arrange the Byzantine Parish in Augusta to come here with their cantor and deacons and priest to celebrate their Liturgy for us again
That would be awesome. Count me in.
Any chance at all that we might be able to celebrate Tenebrae one day during Holy Week?
I've never celebrated Tenebrae ever as a priest or a lay person. It places a great extra burden on the choirs who are over extended as it is with Holy Thursday, Good Friday, the EAster Vigil and Easter Sunday Masses. Tenebrae technically should be celebrated as Evening Prayer on Good Friday, but we celebrate the Passion Liturgy in the evening here. It could be celebrated also as Evening Prayer of Holy Wednesday, but we've just gotten back from the Chrism Mass in Savannah and to be quite honest, since we're not a monsastic community we simply don't have the resources and time to do it properly. I might suggest you look at what the Monastery in Conyers might be doing for Tenebrae.
I was glad that I was able to attend. To be honest I've been surprised by the number of people who have shown up to the various Extraordinary Form Masses. Given the importance of this time of year and how beautiful St. Joseph Church is, I was expecting more people to be showing up. I also noticed how no young men and women were there. I'd say it's safe to say that I (at age 24) was by far the youngest one there. I'd say the next youngest ones there were a couple who were possibly in their 30s.
Nonetheless, it seems for those that were there enjoyed it. I did.
P.S. I felt like many Protestants should have listened to your homily. Namely, understanding the role of Mary to Christ and to the Church, but that she herself doesn't intercede for us to the Father, for that is Jesus Christ's (the 2nd person of the Trinity) role.
Thank you Father
You are very true that the Protestantized-in-practice psychobabble liturgy so common in the Latin Church today is a MAJOR turnoff for Orthodox Christians to reconcile. Of course the supreme thing is the papacy and whatnot, but the liturgy is still huge. And of course they would most likely retain their liturgical customs, but honestly, if you were part of a religion that had an extremely old, wonderful, reverent, beautiful liturgical tradition, would you, Father, be attracted by the prospect of regaining full communion with a Church with such a massive identity crisis and schizophrenic liturgical praxis? Me neither. The Latin Church, at least in practice, has been sooooooooooo short-sighted for the past fiftyish years with our liturgical machinations, it's ridiculous. "Oh, everyone will just love these crazy changes and they will just be the best thing since Jesus walked the earth and the old Church is dead and we r nu church!" I think the Latin Church has been been liturgically (and otherwise) enslaved (at least in practice) to pop culture-advocating ideologues and has become so blinded by them that it really hasn't seen the havoc that nasty liturgy really wreaks. Every little thing we do has import, not only in the Catholic Church, but also outside Her as well. So much for "ecumenism" and "universality."
Oh and, altar girls totally freak out the Orthodox just like they do us Latin traddies!
PS: Can't wait for the videos of both masses!
@Jarrett "...I also noticed how no young men and women were there. I'd say it's safe to say that I (at age 24) was by far the youngest one there. I'd say the next youngest ones there were a couple who were possibly in their 30s...."
Ahhhh .... the viewpoint of youth! (^__^)
Jarrett ... the 30 age group IS young.
--Guy
(2x30)
While I would have wanted more people there, I felt it was a good mix of young and older, but that certainly takes into account one's perspective. On a school night, I wouldn't expect a huge number of people with young families and we made no effort to provide a nursery to assist younger families in coming.
I think the Church should be supporting the arts and singing Schubert's Mass is an effort in that and I guess I'm disappointed that more Catholics aren't into the music arts at St. Joseph willing to come to something of this nature but within the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, especially during Lent.
Appended below is an announcement of Tennebrae at our Knoxville parish. There is no choir. Our pastor chants the Lamentations of Jeremiah, and the antiphons and psalms are recited by the congregation in the usual antiphonal manner. Youth of all ages look forward to this annual event and the use of the tiny flashlights to read the service binders, as the 15 candles on the hearse are extinguished, one after each psalm or reading.
Tenebrae at Holy Ghost Church is scheduled for Monday, April 2 at 8:30 pm. The Office of Tenebrae is a Holy Week devotion dating back to the 7th or 8th century AD and is characterized by the successive extinguishing of candles as the service progresses. No service during the entire church year is more biblical. Monsignor Xavier Mankel's annual celebration of Tenebrae (for "darkness" or "shadow") at Holy Ghost is an annual treat for many of us whose liturgical tastes are traditionally inclined. Participants are provided with booklets to read and sing their parts, and with small individual flashlights to see them as increasing darkness envelops the church. The Office features Msgr. Mankel's chanting of the Lamentations of Jeremiah, and ends with the eerie sound of a strepitus (Latin for "great noise") in the dark, after which the faithful depart in silence. Not to be missed!
@ ghp95134:
Relative to you, the 30 age group is young. :)-
@ Fr. McDonald:
I very much enjoyed the pipe organ and the singing.
Back on topic:
Nothing makes this more evident that the "Protestantization" of our Catholic Mass and spirituality after Vatican II. Did Vatican II actually intend that
No.
or did those who designed things as they came to be after Vatican II?
Yes.
Card. Ratzinger gave the explanation when he said that the bishops--who'd participated in the Council--lost control of the liturgy [and catechesis] in the chaos that broke out back home in the aftermath of the Council. Lost control to groups acting outside the hierarchy's "line of command".
This was evident in my home diocese of Tennessee, where the great leap forward proceeded apace, despite the opposition of our bishop--who before the Council had ruled with an iron hand--who wrote a famous early article in The Wanderer, revealing that the reformer's intention was to de-Catholicize the Church, with the pretension of merely de-Romanizing it.
@Jarrett: I was serving at the Mass last night. I am 28. There was another server younger than me as well. But, I agree that more young people should be there for these night Masses because we are able to stay up later than the old folks! (just kidding!)
I understand that many, particularly priests, do not want to admit that Vatican II did intend many of the abuses that we have seen in the Novus Ordo Liturgy. However, it is almost undeniable that the Council Fathers (or at least a number of Modernist bishops) intentionally left the documents vague in order to leave the door cracked for the coming liturgical revolution. In a way, this interpretation of events helps us to see the Council as even more inspired - these bishops were clearly enemies of the Church and yet they were not able to accomplish their heretical goal during the Council! What an amazing thing for the Holy Ghost to accomplish!
Marc, in regard to the "intent of Vatican II" (an essentially indeterminate term) I would add the caveat that the bishops in attendance at Vatican II had precious little to do with writing most of its documents. They were largely written instead by commissions of "experts" appointed by the Council. Almost inevitably, these commissions consisted of activists with predetermined agenda. Not unlike the 2000-page healthcare bill written by outside experts and not even read by the congressmen who voted on it.
This is certainly true of Sacrosanctum Consilium, written by the Council's liturgy committee which held 50+ meetings to discuss and put together drafts written by its members, and the detailed minutes of which are available in the recent book by Card. Antonini. The documents under consideration by the Council were available only in a wordy kind of Latin that is moderately difficult to read, even for one who easily reads the Bible, missal, and LOH in Latin. The Council fathers surely relied on their periti instead of reading themselves. For instance, Bp. Lefebvre famously voted placet (it pleases) on SC upon being assured by his peritus that it was innocuous, basically (in my words) the same old same old that bishops sign off on, and would not go anywhere.
What's strangest to me is how much things changed in the Roman Rite between 1962 and 1969. I don't think the Orthodox have ever experienced anything like that in their whole history. I can also see why they would hesitate to recognize the primatial nature of Rome after what happened to the Roman Rite during that brief time.
It was truly a very spiritual and divine moment in my journey of faith. While I still have so much to learn about the Catholic faith I have grown so much in just these past few months @ St Joseph's. I may not know exactly when to stand, kneel, or genuflect during the Latin Mass but I know without a doubt last night was the closest I have felt to God, Christ and the Church in my entire life. It was a blessing to attend and participate in and I cannot wait until Easter Vigil when we enter into full communion with the Church.
Of course, Father Shelton. We went nuts. And we're only now coming out of our punch-drunk modernistic love-fest lie-about-what-the-document-says high. I truly believe that "Vatican II" quickly ceased being some moderately-ambitious pieces of paper and turned into a God to be worshiped itself. Many of the elderly people in my own parish are slaves of what they think "Vatican II sez," and if that is an undignified term, I'm sorry, but it's true.
Why in God's name would an Eastern Orthodox person, even looking past the monster issue of papal supremacy, want to come into communion with the Catholic Church when the (Latin) Church is in liturgical schizophrenia mode and an identity crisis that would surely infect Orthodox liturgy and identity, or at least place a huge peer pressure on it? The Orthodox in practice might be better of as Orthodox.
Our poor Roman Rite. :(
Dear Fr.,
Your parish is beautiful, and I am pleased to see that our Roman Catholic cousins in Georgia are worshipping the Lord in a fitting manner.
I am Orthodox, and I don't know if I agree with your characterization of the closeness between our Divine Liturgy and the Tridentine Mass. I have attended the Tridentine Mass five or six times in various parishes, and I think that the sung, "high mass" is much closer than the low mass, which I find very quiet. I have read that pious E.F. folks appreciate the silence, which reminds them of private, prayerful moments, but I found them distracting. Instead of private prayer, I was constantly aware of background noise (coughs, babies, and such sounds) due to the communal setting. It felt eerily Calvinist to me . . . the auditory equivalent to that vision of God as unforgiving white walls in an austere, cold room.
In some ways, the Novus Ordo seems closer WHEN it is celebrated in the proper way. The use of the vernacular and the laity's participation are good. What I find objectionable to the Novus Ordo is that it usually is done so casually -- in what I call Kumbaya Catholicism. Many parishes appear to have lost all sense of the sacred and of worship. The liturgy to them has become simply fellowship or instructional. In short, they have become Protestant in many ways. However, as some of your posts show, that is not necessary in the Novus Ordo. I wish your people the best. Christ is risen!
Joseph, I've been to the Eastern Rite Liturgy in Augusta and I agree that if the OF Mass in the vernacular were celebrated as it should be that it would be closer. However, I think the ceremony of the EF and its more ornate visuals is closer to the Eastern Liturgies, but that's just a perception.
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