You would think that liberal publications like the NCR and Commonweal would extol the marvels wrought by a poor woman in the Church, Mother Angelica, who founded a worldwide Catholic media ministry. She did what the Catholic Bishops of the USA could not do, create a Catholic Cable Network. The one that the USCCB tried to create in the late 1980’s was a miserable failure.
When I brought that up to the late Bishop Lessard, with whom I lived in the same Cathedral rectory, back then, that the Bishops should just let Mother do it since she knows how, His Excellency became very indignant! He was the chair of the Doctrine Committee of the USCCB at that time and I would say he was of the Bernadine school of theology, very middle of the road with a slight tilt to the left.
Thus you have the NCR, smarting from EWTN’s great womanly success, as well as Commonweal, trying their best to denigrate this womanly media giant. Press titles for the green with envy reporting:
Gloria Purvis' radio show 'Morning Glory' pulled from ETWN's airwaves
73 comments:
But, typically, your homage to the populist Angelica omits the salient facts. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Q, you shouldn't denigrate the most powerful woman in the Church, even in death. She is the most powerful everrrr..... Compare her and what she has accomplished to any other woman in the Church everrrr, excluding our Blessed Mother of course, and there is no comparison, especially with the women who contribute to Commonweal and NCR. I am thinking of Sr. Joan, C OSB in particular.
Fr K will be here shortly not to believe your lying eyes! Just like he won’t admit the majority of people at the EF are young people
Quimby,
What you wrote above made me remember that line : One can be a Catholic and a Daft Idiot simultaneously, it seems...... and I am not here referring to Fr McD.
And, Quimby, are you saying here that no matter what the subject matter or topic, Fr McD always, or often, omits the salient facts?
The Apotheosis of Vigano fell apart long ago, his attempt to avoid being implicated in the McCarrick mess collapsed, and EWTN's fawning over him has come back to bite them, big time.
Anon 8:55 - Regarding subject matter, check out the definition of "typically."
The only "daft idiots" are the ones who ignore the facts.
Could it be said that some salient facts of Mother's life was that in the 1980s and 1990s she railed against:
- the depth of horrible formation.
- the horrendous state of catechetical programs like ALPHA and JustFaith, with their watered down Catholicism promoted in many dioceses,
- the constant obeisance to the social justice agenda.
- the massive display of liturgical abuses.
- the pandering to false ecumenism.
- the lack of reverence for and solid teaching on the Blessed Sacrament..
I have read, and often wondered how true it was, that a bishop informed her privately that some liberal-leftist bishops were trying to destroy her; and for Mother, apparently, a turning point came in 1993 when World Youth Day organizers in Denver had a woman portray the part of Jesus during a Stations of the Cross enactment.
By the way, I believe Mother was one of many who found it quite easy to oppose racism and support real social justice without embracing the madness of modern Social Justice Theory which is inspired in part by Marx and Gramsci but mainly by Foucault.
By the way again, many old school socialists also oppose modern Social Justice Theory, critical race theory etc.
I have an atheist, socialist brother in law who says : it is meant to be workers of the world unite NOT races of the world divide.
Very well summarized. The progressive cabal of that period up to 1993 were out to get her. I suspect Cardinal Bernadine wanted her demise and certainly Cardinal Mahoney. However, Cardinal Ratzinger came to the rescue. Do you remember the gift that Cardinal Ratzinger sent Mother Angelica after the 1993 tirade she threw which cemented her sainthood and she opened it on her live TV show? Do you recall what it was....Once Cardinal Ratzinger rescued her from the wolves and became her patron, there was no stopping her!
Anon 10:00 a.m. Those are ideas - some of them highly debatable - but not facts salient to the matter of EWTN's approach to Vigano.
By the way, I was on Mother Angelica Live in around 1998 and for the full hour. However, she was sick that night and Jeff Cavens, I believe, substituted for her. I spoke of the restoration of the Church of the Most Holy Trinity in Augusta. After that show, I got emails from around the world asking me to be their liturgical consultant. I wasn't one, but I played on on international Cable TV that night! I think an audio of that show can still be found.
Quimby,
I could but I think it would be easier for all here if you provide a definition of "typically" in the context of what you wrote above about Fr MacDonald omitting salient facts. Perhaps very few here can match your learning and eloquence. And you can explain to us plebs your understanding of what "typically" means when you chose that word in the above context.
OK?
I posted two articles salient to the facts by two progressive outlets. Did either of these interview EWTN? No. Did Commonweal interview Archbishop Viganò? NO! And for that matter, neither did the Vatican when they wrote the gay novel about McCarrick. That was a terrible oversight and no legitimate press outlet either Catholic or secular investigated that.
Reporters in both the religious and secular world are a shadow of those who preceded them and I am thinking of Walter Conkright, Chet Huntley and David Brinkley and all major network reporters of that period and before going back to radio and print.
Quimby,
Mother Angelica stepped down from control of EWTN in 2000 and handed control to a board of lay people. In 2001 she suffered a stroke. Further strokes followed and her health seriously declined from that time.
Please remind us how many years later Vigano came out with his bombshell claims re Francis and a number of high ranking Catholic clerics.
These are salient facts I believe.
Some further possibly salient facts, QAnon, was how much praise and support Bernardin, Mahony and the liturgical “genius” Weakland and similar bishops and archbishops received for years from liberal Catholic newspapers and journals, and praise and support from lefty liberal priests and Catholic laypeople even when certain salient facts about these men and their careers as administrators and about their lifestyles etc began to be revealed...
Regarding Vigano, I have not really closely followed the whole drama around the allegations he has made, however, on the 2 or 3 occasions I have read what he has written the first thing that struck me was : this man, this Catholic Archbishop, actually REALLY believes in God and actually, really BELIEVES in death, judgement, heaven and hell.
A@10:59, yes the liberal Catholic press lives in a glass house and should not be throwing stones. They extolled McCarrick, Bernadine, Weakland, McCarrick and Mahoney to name just a few and praised Weakland’s public mea culpa after his scorned lover boy outed him. Did they do any extensive reporting on Weakland’s embezzlement of several hundred thousands of dollars given to the boy toy? No, none.
McCarrick was a darling of NCR and other liberal outlets. Their shock is hypocritical as they would have known too of his homosexual dalliances which promotes their meme of regularizing this disordered behavior coming from disordered affections.
Quimby,
You are an intellectual branleur.
QAnon, sorry, Quimby,
Is your French so good that you did not need to look up the French word "branleur"?
I think I know the German word for branleur. Do you, oh erudite one?
Does anyone know the Italian equivalent?
And I am sure such a person as an intellectual branleur must have existed in ancient Rome and Greece.....
Sorry all, I am off to Fr Hunwicke's blog to ask him what are the best Latin and ancient Greek words to describe an intellectual branleur.
Sometimes going off on a big tangent can lead to interesting destinations, don't you think?
If I find a Latin word or term for branleur I'll be back shortly.
I wonder could it be Quimbus ?
Quimby probably refers to Mayor Quimby from the Simpsons, who many think is a cartoon parody of the late Senator Ted Kennedy.
QAnon is largely made up of deluded conspiracy theorists.
Bee here:
As to EWTN and Mother Angelica's Catholic media success and the bishops' failure, Psalm 121 comes to mind: "Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it..."
What I loved about Mother Angelica was that she spoke out of love of God, and of Our Lord Jesus and of the Holy Spirit, with a sincere heart. She defended God and the doctrine of the Catholic Church as one would defend one's family who was being attacked by liars.
And that's what everyone who saw her and loved her loved about her. It wasn't politics for her. It wasn't about fame or worldly success or attention for her. It was about love of God, and love for His Word, and love for our Faith, and proclaiming the true Faith.
In my mind, Mother Angelica was given a platform and voice by God to cry out against the errors and heterodoxy of the Vatican II Church. And the traitors of our Faith who had positions of authority on the inside of the Church who were spreaders of those errors and that heterodoxy hated her for that. In fact, for me, knowing a cleric's or religious' or supposed Catholic writer's scorn or even hated for Mother Angelica and the degree of that was a pretty good tell who was an enemy of the Church. I could avoid them and disregard their voices accordingly. (Quimby above take note.)
And with regards to Bishop Lessard (God rest his soul), I hope you are not saying Bernardin, but rather Bishop Lessard, was "middle of the road with a slight tilt to the left" because I lived in Chicago, and Bernardin was anything but middle of the road. He just behaved publicly like he was. But what he actually DID, whoa boy!
God bless.
Bee
I'm pretty sure the same people who are ranting about EWTN sacking the 'leading voice' never, in fact, tuned in to listen to the 'leading voice' which is the real reason that led EWTN to show the 'leading voice' the door.
I have never listened to Gloria Purvis, however IF she has caught the Woke virus I don’t blame ETWN for pulling her radio show.
I hate how Woke Social Justice warriors carry on like they invented social justice and rave on as though only they are truly anti racism and anti sexism and anti homophobia.
A Woke Social Justice Warrior can rave on about systemic racism and white privilege and toxic masculinity without realising how many on the Left around the world despise them. Many on the Left rightly regard modern Social Justice Theory as terribly and pathetically bourgeois; the scholar/activists who invented and push modern Woke Social Justice Theory and critical race theory etc are so ironically unaware of their own first world privilege; and are mostly privileged, elite university graduates who are almost all middle or even upper middle class people in first world nations. Eventually more people will see through their nonsense. They almost totally ignore the racism, sexism and homophobia that occurs in many non western, non white and non Christian nations and cultures. They almost totally neglect the sufferings of those who have very low paid jobs or are unemployed- probably because many of those in the West are straight, white males. They are close to delusional to believe that functioning Western democracies c. 2000 to 2020 are in reality terribly oppressive, racist patriarchies by world standards and historical standards.
To repeat I know nothing of Gloria Purvis but IF she is in any way a Woke Social Justice Warrior type I suggest she’d have no trouble finding work in any diocese in the USA run by a Catholic bishop who (because of stupidity or cowardice) supports BLM and took a knee for this neo Marxist organisation that hates almost all that the Catholic Church stands for.
Romulus Augustus here, Racism, Racism, Racism enough of that already, nobody is falling fort this nonsense anymore, this country has the most "races" of people in the world!!! That's why everyone wants to come here because it is so FREE and little racism exists, only in the minds of LIBERALS!! Play that ole Race Card Democrats.
Anonymous @ 11.49am,
An inebriated guest here who claims he used to teach languages is mumbling something about “semel in segailolo semper segaiolo” ....it is late at night, our time.
With Respect to The late Bishop Raymond Lessard:
When I knew him he never seemed to have a favorable attitude towards women doing much of anything unless it was sub servient.
That’s not quite true. I hope I am not confusing bishops, but he named a Mercy Sister as the chancellor of the diocese who previously was the president/CEO of the Mercy Hospital in Savannah, St. Joseph’s. When I entered the seminary in 1976, our diocese was noted as having two female seminarians studying for the priesthood. They were invited to all our seminarian gatherings too. They studied at Catholic University. Of course, once Pope Paul VI reiterated that woman could not be ordained priests later in 1976 or early 1977, Bishop Lessard shifted the language from seminarian to studying to be pastoral assistants. Eventually, though, the two women became Episcopal priestesses.
To clarify by assertion that no one interviewed EWTN, for the Commonweal article, I have it from an excellent unnamed source, well acquainted with the Paul Moses Commonweal article, that he reached out to EWTN and no one there cared to comment. My same source indicates that the author of the article would have loved to have interviewed Archbishop Viganò, but he is in hiding. So I regret indicating there was no effort on the reporter’s part to seek input from those who would know. Those knowing, evidently, don’t want to talk or can’t be found.
Bee @ 12:32, at the time, late 80’s I would have considered Cardinal Bernadine middle of the road with a slight tilt to the left. Bishop Lessard was no flaming liberal, but he was an expert on Vatican II and taught the Council’s documents while in the diocese and later at the regional seminary in Boynton Beach, Florida where he served for many years until his death after retiring as our bishop in 1995.
I felt terrible when Bernadine was accused of sexual abuse and relieved when he was exonerated by the former seminarian who made the accusation. I guess that was the late 90’s. But there were rumors of some misbehavior when he was a priest or seminarian for the Diocese of Charleston. He was from Columbia, SC about 90 miles from Augusta where I grew up. With all the scandals and coverups, I now have a hunch that maybe someone paid off that former seminarian to recant. It wouldn’t be above Chicago politics, would it, for that to have happened. Did that fellow die?
Anon 10:13 - As Good Fr. McDonald likes to say, do your hoework and report back to us on the meaning of "typically."
Anon 10:59 - Please explain how
"- the depth of horrible formation.
- the horrendous state of catechetical programs like ALPHA and JustFaith, with their watered down Catholicism promoted in many dioceses,
- the constant obeisance to the social justice agenda.
- the massive display of liturgical abuses.
- the pandering to false ecumenism.
- the lack of reverence for and solid teaching on the Blessed Sacrament."
have anything to do with Vigano and his fall from the imaginary plane of grace on which he was placed by EWTN.
Anon 11:15 - You're a wanker.
M Quimby,
No I’m not ! I am a VERY happily married man.
If you are labelling me an “intellectual wanker” I think you are wrong there too.
But I confess to occasionally enjoying teasing “intellectual wankers” - so much so, the maximum penance I have received for this genial, sorry venial, sin I have to admit has been 10 Hail Marys a day for a week and 2 hours a day listening to Bishop Barron YouTube clips for a fortnight . A bit stiff, don’t you think, M Quimby (or M Branleur?) or should that be Fr Quimby?
Regards,
Larry Loisy.
Father McDonald,
I was a member of the Archdiocese of Chicago for over 30 years, and was there during the Bernadin regime. I am with Bee on this one. Bernadin was a lefty, not to be trusted. He cooked up that "seamless garment" nonsense to provide cover for the Abortion Party and its minions, one of whom posts here under various names.
What Mother Angelica did for Catholic television programing was truly astonishing,not only when comparing her network with other Catholic media, but also in taking into consideration that she also was competition for main street media. Her networks broadcasting technically was on par with all of the big networks, and EWTN also maintained a high level of program variety. In this age of COVID, one has to look at EWTN's broadcasting of the Mass. That Mass also set a good example of how the OF Mass should be; the architectural features, vestments,Latin, and music. They are all things you discuss on this blog. It was interesting that she was not allowed to use the word Catholic in the networks name. As a side note I am still wondering whatever happened to Fr. Corapi. Aside from his troubles, he did do a good job at presenting the Catechism of the Church.
Monsieur Quimby (or Fr Quimby?)
Did you learn from Fr K the tactic of :
When in doubt, when confused and or when sensing you have not fully convinced anyone - start nitpicking.
Perhaps Anon 10.59 simply wanted to list what he believed Mother Angelica was rightly concerned about in the 1980s and 1990s......
perhaps, like others here, at times, he was guilty of the venial sin of annoying (to you) digression on an orthodox Catholic blog?
If you are Fr Quimby what penance would you advise? Reading all Fr James Martin ever wrote on what he is most knowledgable,
ie -on lavish Broadway musicals?
Regards,
M Query.
Quimby,
I suppose you believe the Catholic Church in the USA in the 1980s was renowned for its:
Great and wonderful formation.
Fantastic and effective catechetical programs.
Clear focus on salvation of souls and very little focus on a left of centre political party’s secular, social justice agenda.
Almost zero, or VERY little liturgical abuse.
No traces of “Ecumania” whatsoever.
Sound and solid teaching on the Blessed Sacrament.
No indications whatsoever of a “Lavender Mafia”.
If you believe the above is closer to the REALITY of the 1980s - with the Catholic Church in the USA - than that listed above, at 10.00, I suggest, if you lived through the 80s as an adult Catholic in the USA, both psychotherapy AND medications to ease severe delusional fantasies might be required.
Anonymous at 3:58 PM,
You nailed it, the delusions and phoniness of the Catholic Church in the US during the 1980s.
I grew up before the mega disaster otherwise known as Vatican II, and was extremely proud of my great, generous, missionary, and universal Catholic Church. It is a rump of its former self, but we have loons running around (some who post here waxing eloquent on "ecumenism") and trying to convince us otherwise. If the Catholic Church were a publicly traded company, it would have either gone bankrupt and out of business or fired most of the failures in the hierarchy.
Re: Corapi - When a religious order priest - Corapi was SOLT (Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity) - is estranged from his community and when he refuses to obey directives given by his religious superior, there is likely something seriously amiss.
Although Corapi has denied any wrongdoing, he has also refused to release former employees from non-disclosure agreements so they can give evidence. (Why does a priest have employees sign non-disclosure agreememts?)
Another example was Fr. Bruce Ritter, founder of Covenant House. That work undoubtedly helped many troubled teenagers, but the estranged Franciscan apparently engaged in inappropriate sexual and financial misconduct.
"Great and wonderful formation.
Fantastic and effective catechetical programs.
Clear focus on salvation of souls and very little focus on a left of centre political party’s secular, social justice agenda.
Almost zero, or VERY little liturgical abuse.
No traces of “Ecumania” whatsoever.
Sound and solid teaching on the Blessed Sacrament.
No indications whatsoever of a “Lavender Mafia”."
I'm sorry - these have WHAT exactly to do with EWTN and Vigano?
Maybe we could discuss strategies for winning at Mumblety-peg and Vigano next.....
Bee here:
Yes, Bernardin's accuser Steven Cook did die of AIDS in 1995. Bernardin died in 1996, supposedly of pancreatic cancer.
Fr. McD, Cardinal Bernadin liked to play the humble servant in public, but he was the one who pulled a fast one as USCCB president making communion in the hand mandatory throughout the U.S. He came up with the "seamless" garment idea, and did much to permit widespread heterodoxy in liturgical practice and life of the parishes here. And he endorsed the homosexual agenda in the archdiocese. His leadership undermined the faith of the Catholics of Chicago and around the U.S.
I myself witness Cardinal Bernadin's behavior when I attended a talk given by liberation theologian Gustavo Gutierrez at Mundelein Seminary back in about 1989. I was invited to that talk since I was enrolled in Loyola University's masters program for Pastoral Studies. I watched Cardinal Bernardin enter the room, and was a little scandalized by his behavior toward the group of seminarians also attending. Let's just say he seemed inappropriately interested in them.
And my personal knowledge of events goes further. In a very strange coincidence my family lived within the boundaries of St. Francis Xavier parish in Chicago. I was baptized, received my First Holy Communion and was Confirmed at St. Francis Xavier. I attended the grade school attached to the church, served by the School Sisters of St. Francis.
In 1989 a parish called St. Sebastian located close to the gay "Boy's Town" neighborhood in Chicago, burned down. Here's a quote from a newspaper article about the fire, "The church has had an important place in the large homosexual community in Lakeview since 1973, when it became the site of special masses for gay Catholics sponsored the gay advocacy group Chicago Dignity."
The pastor there was one Rev. Daniel Montalbano. Shortly after the fire, Cardinal Bernardin assigned Fr. Montalbano to St. Francis Xavier parish, where my parents still attended as parishioners. The parish was soon merged with neighboring parish, St. Veronica's, and Fr. Montalbano changed the name of the merged entity to Resurrection Parish (a reference to the fact St. Sebastian's burned down and his ministry to gays would be resurrected?) against the wishes of parishioners of both parishes.
At the opening liturgy, con-celebrated by Cardinal Bernadin, a rainbow banner was put across the crucifix on the reredo above the old standing altar. Word on the street was that Resurrection Parish was to be the new "gay" parish in the archdiocese. That never really happened, because Resurrection (St. Francis) was about 10 miles from where St. Sebastian had stood and in a working class neighborhood. It just wasn't convenient for the gay community to travel that far.
I did not attend Resurrection at this time, but my parents did, and my mother was pretty distressed by the behavior of Fr. Montalbano on the altar. She was particularly disgusted by his behavior as he sat on the celebrant chair, his arm slung across the back, and some sort of smug cruel look on his face. She would call him Nero.
But my mom and dad would not say much more. They were taught you do not criticize priests or any religious or clergy. So they kept mostly quiet and suffered in silence.
(Cont. in next post)
(Continued from previous post.)
In 1997, on the day after the celebration of Fr. Montalbano's 50th birthday, he was found dead in his room in the rectory, hooked up to a homemade sex machine. The deacons who found him also found closets full of graphic homosexual literature, which they disposed of by filling plastic garbage bags and burning the materials at a forest preserve fire pit. You can read the sordid details in an article on Lifesite News.
I myself remember this, my brother having a friend who worked as a cop, who was one of the police arriving on the scene, and telling my brother some of the sordid details of what they saw when they walked in. It pretty much matches up to what is said in the articles.
And you may have heard about a recent (2018) dustup regarding Resurrection Parish and that same banner, when the pastor at the time, Fr. Paul Kalchik, discovered the banner somewhere in storage, and decided to burn it publicly at the church with parishioners. The gay community in Chicago erupted with outrage (Fr. Kalchik had only published his intentions in the bulletin, but apparently enough people were keeping an eye on him to make this a huge deal). Cardinal Cupich was contacted by not only the alderman, herself a gay woman, but by Mayor Lightfoot, a open lesbian living with her gay partner and a daughter. Cupich took immediate action, forbidding Kalchik from burning the banner. When parishioners burned the banner anyway (without Kalchik) the following Saturday several clerics showed up and told Kalchik he was being removed from the parish, and needed to seek "psychological counseling" at St. Lukes. Fr. Kalchik left the premises and has been in hiding ever since, he and his family having received death threats.
That Cardinal Bernardin not only installed but endorsed Fr. Montalbano in an unsuspecting parish in a quiet working class neighborhood to me is just evil. I cannot think well of him, or even believe he had the pastoral care of the believers in Chicago in mind. He belongs in the category of McCarrick, Mahoney, and Weakland and a cast of other characters whose legacy is the wounding of the Catholic Church.
God bless.
Bee
Fr Q,
Does this post have anything to do with Mother Angelica?
What did Mother Angelica rail against c. 1980 to 2000?
Where did Mother rail against formation, modern liturgical abuse, liberal lefty bishops etc ? EWTN.
Was it THAT off topic to post that list?
Did the above list of what Mother Angelica hit a raw nerve with you?
Something you may need to discuss with your psychotherapist?
BTW I believe it likely Archbishop Vigano appreciated the good work, GREAT work, done by Mother almost as much as Ratzinger.
Oh, dear Fr Q, was there not an approximate 18 year gap between Mother resigning and Vigano’s bombshell allegations?
How responsible is Mother for what is said or not said on EWTN years after her retirement and even after her death?
How about we discuss the BIG issue here you have ignored but Fr M referred to - ie: the US Catholic bishops abysmal failure in the 80s and Mother’s monumental success in establishing EWTN.
Bee,
Cupich is worse than Bernadin. Openly gay men serve as pastors, while Cupich chases away orthodox, Catholic priests who do not buy into the gay agenda. My last act as a member of the Archdiocese was to return the Cardinal's Annual Appeal Card with the notation, "I will contribute, when we once again have a Catholic Archbishop in Chicago." If Pope Benedict had not resigned, we likely would have ended up with a Catholic Archbishop. So glad to be out of the Archdiocese of Chicago. I feel great sympathy for the orthodox Catholics and priests there. They are suffering.
Fr K/Q,
Nitpicking. I looked it up.
“Fussy or pedantic fault finding about matters that are minor”.
Now who does that, at times, describe?
Anyway, how about we all go back and read the FIRST comment made by Fr K, or Fr Q or Monsieur Q.
That was a nasty, unfair and sweeping statement, don’t you think?
Now I am off to google Mumblety-Peg !
My guess is it is a game that was very popular with a certain type of US seminarian from the mid 70s to the mid 80s but I look forward to finding out for sure!
Helen P.
Dear Quimby and Fr K,
Is it true you both know a Woke priest, Fr X, who now not only wears BLM black clerical shirts but has ordered very expensive BLM vestments to be made in time for May 1st, 2021 ? And Fr X expects to wait that long as so many priests, from Germany to Canada, have put in with Mr Gammarelli in Rome similar requests and orders ?
And “Anon at 11.15. You’re a wanker!”
Is that the best comeback you could think of; you being such an erudite individual?! A rather puerile, banal insult, don’t you think from one who can spout French with the best of them?
Anyway,
All the best,
And a happy new year to all !!
Spike Mumbletygan.
Dear Qumbles,
Can I recommend Guinness and scotch to bring in the new year instead of something like pink gins? My dear deceased sister used to drink gin. It would make her very sad and teary at times. Especially when she’d drink several double gins rapidly on returning home after hearing a terrible sermon or witnessing some bizarre, liturgical experiment in the 80s. It was Mother Angelica and EWTN and AA combined that restored my dear sister to sobriety and having a degree of contentment as a Catholic until her death in 2005.
Quimby, it is your cousin Quora here. Why not throw some more pearls of French wisdom and some more of your flawless analytical logic at these Catholic fascists and reactionaries! I am at present holidaying at the famous Fr Porter Bed and Breakfast and, by the way, I have almost finished knitting you the black BLM winter waistcoat you wanted. Happy new year, dearest cousin!
Fr K, M Quimby et al,
Why not comment or try to refute what Bee and others have written about Cardinals Bernadine and Cupich and the Chicago Archdiocese?
How do any allegations made, by you and others, against Archbishop Vigano compare to allegations, often fully substantiated, against Bernadine, McCarrick and Weakland and Becciu and others?!
Also, do you find any attempts at humour re BLM deeply offensive? Are you aware millions of black people around the world find the ideology of the BLM organisation deeply offensive, especially BLM’s views on the traditional family?
I know you people, in your set, regard racism (in the bizarre way you redefine it) as close to the ultimate mortal sin. Your second key dogma is that white privilege is like a combination of original sin and total depravity BUT I can recommend you read the scholarly text “Cynical Theories “ - a book by real intellectuals, not pseudo intellectuals, like your dear selves, but by J Lindsay and H Pluckrose, which explains how the anti racism of BLM and of the modern Critical Race Theorists is in fact itself deeply racist.....and explains how the modern BLM and modern Critical Race Theorists totally reject the beliefs and ideology of Dr Martin Luther King and the 1950s and 1960s civil rights activists who bravely fought against real discrimination, real oppression etc unlike BLM in our era, who if you check out their website is really much more about overthrowing capitalism and the traditional family and raving on about “transphobia” than about racism against black people...
Quimby’s first comments were both a nasty insult and pure bait. He probably loved the reactions he got, and loved people being certain or claiming it was possible it was Fr K behind Quimby...... A minimal response to nasty trolls is my advice or totally ignoring trolls is often best; as it has been said before, DO NOT FEED trolls, let them starve. Quimby why not try trolling Fr Z or Fr Hunwicke and see how you would probably be put in your place with 2 sentences and then ignored? How pathetic he was to think he had a GREAT big point regarding Vigano and EWTN........and as though that was only what he was on about here......typically troll-like behaviour.
Anonymous at 7:04 pm,
You are dealing with apostates and fraudsters, they are impervious to faith and reason
Anonymous at 7:04 pm,
You are dealing with apostates and fraudsters, they are impervious to faith and reason
People often say, "Why don't you refute or respond to so-and-so"?
Well, "So-and-So" has probably posted something that is entirely an emotional rant or a spleen-venting.
For example, Anonymous posted on another thread, "The vast vast majority of priests are uneducated, morally questionable, pathetic, effeminate men who couldn’t preach their way out of a paper bag," and "The next pope will be 10x worse than this guy [Pope Francis]. He filled the College with horrible horrible men more radical than himself."
Or as Bee has posted, "I watched Cardinal Bernardin enter the room, and was a little scandalized by his behavior toward the group of seminarians also attending. Let's just say he seemed inappropriately interested in them."
Anonymous' posts can't be refuted because there's nothing more there than emotion. What is a refutation of something like that supposed to sound like? "No, they're not!" or "No he won't?"
As for Bee's accusation that Cardinal Bernardin was trying to find a gay sex partner among a group of seminarians, why would anyone dignify that completely baseless expression of hate with any kind of response? Were I to hear such a thing in person, my response would be to recoil in horror from a person who would make such a statement either in person or on a public blog.
EWTN lauded Vigano. Vigano has been shown to be as complicit in the McCarrick Affair as many others.
It's a new year and the trolls are back in town! Quimby immediately put me in mind of Fred Quimby, the animator who created Tom & Jerry. 'Quim' is also a slang term for the female pudenda and has been around since at least the 18th century. Unlike the more common four-letter word which is cognate with the Latin 'cunnus', it is not used as an insult in British English. Is the latter term also an insult in American English?
Wank is a town (and mountain) in the Bavarian Alps, and the inhabitants indeed say 'ich bin ein Wanker'!
Returning to our muttons, as the French would say, I don't tune in to EWTN so have no comment, and I'm not sure what to make of Vigano. There is clearly something rotten in the Vatican, and has been for some time. Benedict couldn't fix it, and Francis, who cannot be unaware of it, is either unable or unwilling to confront it. One gets the impression that he is more interested in hitching his wagon to fashionable secular concerns than he is in the condition of the Church.
However, we're stuck with him, whatever scandals may emerge - two papal abdications in a row would seriously compromise the Petrine office and make his successor's job well-nigh impossible.
Quimby,
You can't handle the truth, that's why you can't handle Bee's comment on Bernadin. I bet you were a big time McCarrick supporter, a Democratic Party operative masquerading as a Catholic priest, until irrefutable evidence came out.
Anon 8:27 - Bee's comment on Bernardin is completely without merit. It is based on nothing but hate and imaginary innuendo, ignorance and a desire to harm the reuptation of another human being.
You would not know truth if it walked up and spit in your face.
In 2002 a Catholic sister who was briefly pastoral assistant in my parish and quite familiar with Newark and New York having minister there as a Franciscan nun told me the rumors about McCarrick. Like what you are doing to Bee who lives in Chicago, I did the same to the good sister condemning her and saying it “ is completely without merit. It is based on nothing but hate and imaginary innuendo, ignorance and a desire to harm the reuptation of another human being.” Fortunately I did not retort, “ You would not know truth if it walked up and spit in your face.” I had some manners.
Bee here:
No, my comment on Bernardin is not based on hate or imaginary innuendo, nor ignorance nor desire to hurt another's reputation. What I included are things I witnessed myself, and know are true. There are other things I have heard from others about Bernardin that are not certain to me, as well as other pieces of information I know are true but are only partial, but point in the same direction, that I did not include in my comment because I am less certain of those facts. But they contribute to my overall estimation of the late Cardinal.
It doesn't matter to me. The man is dead. He cannot do any more harm. I'm not his judge. But I do have a right to discern for myself what I know of someone's character and behavior, and reject their ways or leadership. You can believe whatever you want. If you think I am lying, so be it.
God bless.
Bee
"What I included are things I witnessed myself, and know are true."
No, what you included was your perception of what happened. That perception and memory is now tainted by the animus you bear toward Bernardin because you blame him for your suffering and discontent.. You have no right whatsoever to conclude that a man who spoke to seminarians was trying to engage one of several of them in sexual activity. None.
What you SAW was a man speaking to seminarians. What you CONCLUDE is that he was trying to hit on them.
Two very different things.
Quimby K,
Since you vote for the Abortion Party you have zero credibility. I benefit from Bee’s commentary as do many others who post here. You are a sad little man
To Quimby@11:55AM
Utter RUBBISH. Not that Bee needs anyone to defend her because she is perfectly capable of doing so on her own if need be, but YOU have no right whatsoever to presume that she saw one thing and concluded another. Bee is perfectly capable of speaking rationally and concretely. She has proven that time and again. I'm smelling a leftist attempt to discredit the truth. Who was it that said "Thou protest too much"?
'You would not know truth if it walked up and spit in your face.' An anonymous commentator addressing another anonymous commentator (Bee always identifies herself).
Bad manners, yes, but also execrable English. A primary schoolchild could tell you that it should be 'spat' (past tense of 'spit').
'The lady doth protest too much, methinks.' Often misquoted, this line is spoken by Queen Gertrude, Hamlet's mother.
Anon - Bee has no right to assume anything from seeing a Cardinal talk to seminarians.
Her words, "Let's just say he seemed inappropriately interested in them."
"Seemed inappropriately interested."
In other words, it may have been so, or it may not. She may have concluded correctly or she may no have done so. But, she turn that into an accusation.
Is Bee inclined to judge those with who she disagrees unfavorably? Most definitely.
Is there any evidence that Bernardin died of AIDS which she blatantly suggests? Nope.
Oh, he was accused falsely by a gay man who died of AIDS. That SURELY means Bernardin was gay and died of AIDS too...
Riiiiight.
I hope no one ever sees you seeming to show inappropraite interest in anyone and then turns that into a public accusation.
The best thing for you Quimby is the eyes downcast approach, no particular friendships, especially with seminarians and Uber professionalism. Wear your cassock and galero at all times and cold showers. That should keep you from untoward rumors/gossip.
Quimby K,
It has been suggested by others that you should seek help. Maybe your god, Obama’s, insurance product covers your problem
Cuntby,
Let Bee reach her own conclusions and if you disagree with them, say so and give reasons. Attributing base motives to those whose opinions differ from your own is a cheap shot by any standards.
Calumny or detraction when referring to an ordained person such as Cardinal Bernadin is a serious sin and unworthy of a Christian.
John Nolan - Recognizing base motives to those who have shown repeatedly that they have base motives is entirely appropriate.
Let someone try to post a comment similar to Bee's regarding the owner of this blog and see how quickly "Let that person reach his or her own conclusions" comes crashing down.
Quimby,
So with our bishop (who I will not name here and has since moved on) when a number of people independently of each other noted his excessive alcohol consumption, his insanely excessive spending on goods and services for himself and his, at minimum, highly inappropriate social interactions with young, good looking seminarians, and while inebriated with any young man, etc.......all that in each case, would you claim, with a dozen plus people, was a person with tainted perceptions who were irrationally and unfairly blaming Bishop X for their own inner suffering and personal discontent?
Quimby,
I think it could be claimed that your perceptions and views on Bee and your memory of Bee’s past comments, and your opinions on her “inner suffering and discontent” AND her motives etc are all themselves very subjective and flawed, personal perceptions and VERY highly tainted by the animus you feel towards her, and the animus you would feel towards any Catholic who dared to say openly about any liberal, modernist priest or bishop what hundreds, if not thousands, had also observed in any liberal, modernist Catholic cleric, but said or wrote nothing. Why not shine that high powered observation and perception, you claim to possess, within your own psyche?
Regards,
Dr Carl Skinner.
Fr Q,
Have you noted your obsessive concern that no one here appeared to agree with you, or wanted to discuss at length with you, your subjective, possibly quite simplistic and biased views on Archbishop Vigano? Also, have you noted your total neglect to make any comment on the main point that Fr M was originally making with this post? Ie: how with a near 99% certainty, a certain number of leading, liberal Catholic journalists (And a number of lefty liberal Catholic bishops and cardinals too) simply must have been GREEN with envy at the great success of Mother Angelica?
Dearest Q, here is my personal, subjective view regarding you and how you have perceived the success of Mother Angelica: you have experienced a degree of inner suffering and discontent for years at the REALITY of Mother’s success (and too at the numbers of young people attending the EF Mass etc) while so many of the liberal, progressive Catholics’ Catholic Church heroes of the 80s and 90s era never gained a great following and often ended their careers either discredited or in near total disgrace. As well, I note your use of the word “populist” to describe Mother Angelica - if I had your ability to judge other people’s inner state, I would claim that you believe that theologically ignorant, Catholic deplorable plebs made up the vast bulk of people who loved and agreed with Mother Angelica, and no educated, enlightened Catholic like yourself could never take her seriously....
Dear Q, never forget long term psychotherapy is available for your inner turmoil and suffering and the emotional pain you feel and have felt when confronted with reality.
Never forget, Q, that often Reality is best regarded as the thing you bump into HARD !! ....when your beliefs are wrong.
Regards,
Dr Skinner’s wife.
Fr Allan,
I could easily be wrong here, however I believe the gratuitous insult with which “Quimby” opened this thread/discussion re you as, Q claims, typically omitting salient facts can be traced back to the resentments held by one or some about your views and opinions of a certain seminary and the resentments held by one or some at what they claim are your “potshots at other priests who don’t share your ‘liturgical preferences’ “.
Who knows, but odd any way since the label pre-Vatican II that most attributed to his seminary today would not be seen as a denigration or insult, but a compliment.
Anonymous at 7.56pm,
Did you by any any chance reside in a diocese in West Virginia between 2005 to 2018? Amazing how lay people’s subjective perceptions of, at minimum, serious financial improprieties, and substance abuse and the sexual harassment of young men by a certain prelate were 100% confirmed by a later official Church enquiry.
QUIM.
I now have a new word for scrabble! Oh, and I enjoyed looking up the meaning of the French word used above, that is “BRANLEUR”.
When this thread ends I am going to ask my devout Catholic neighbour when we next enjoy a beer together, on showing him this post and the numerous following comments, “spot the ‘intellectual branleur’ in this thread.”
Re: Scrabble
Scrabble rule: Some foreign words are accepted
According to the official Scrabble rules, “all words labeled as a part of speech” are allowed, including those listed as “archaic, obsolete, colloquial, and slang.” Foreign words are permitted as long as they appear in English dictionaries. However, proper nouns, abbreviations, stand-alone prefixes and suffixes, and words requiring a hyphen or an apostrophe are not accepted words. To come out victorious while still following all of these Scrabble rules, brush up on these uncommon English words before your next Scrabble game.
I don’t know if this will interest a single person here but the following interested me:
Branleur is French for wanker. Wanker is a pejorative term of English origin (late 19th century English slang) common in Britain and Australia and New Zealand. It initially referred to an onanist and it is synonymous with the word tosser. Many British and Commonwealth people use the word like people in the USA use the word jerk. However, in Australia and NZ and elsewhere the word wanker can carry suggestions of annoying, egotistical and self-indulgent behaviour. Phil Collins used the word wanker in his cameo appearances on Miami Vice in 1984 and has been credited with introducing the word to America.
In January 2015 the then Mayor of London described British born jihadists as “pornography- obsessed inadequates who only turn to radical Islam when they fail to make it with girls.....they are literally wankers.”
Inspired by a controversy about The White Stripes’ 2003 song “Seven Nation Army” connected to Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign, the British composer Ben Comeau wrote, in the style of J S Bach, a 4 part fugue on the riff of that song to the words “Donald Trump is a wanker”.
When Quimby above was labelled an intellectual branleur (the French word branleur often translates as wanker or jerk) I thought at first he was being called an annoying, pretentious intellectual, and possibly a fake intellectual.
Aren’t words amazing things?
Also, the next chance I get I will attempt to use the word wanker in scrabble and look forward to a game of scrabble where I can show off my knowledge of this word.
Twenty or so years ago I would sit in a wine bar doing cryptic crosswords from the Guardian or the Daily Telegraph with like-minded addicts. One clue which stumped my confreres was 'polyphonic composers in nuns' strip act'. I immediately identified it as 'contrapunctists'. I then realized that crosswords were a form of mental masturbation and have eschewed them ever since.
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