This was at Bishop John Barros installation Mass in Chile! Could it happen here?????? Or is this simply a typical OF Mass????????????????
Friday, November 22, 2019
IS THIS FAKE CATHOLIC NEWS???????? AND IF IT ISN’T WOULD AN AMERICAN SCHISM TAKE PLACE BEGINNING IN PHILLY ????? AND IF TRUE, COULD WE SEE THE SAME RECEPTION OF MARTIN IN PHILADELPHIA AS JOHN BARROS HAD IN CHILE??????????????????
This was at Bishop John Barros installation Mass in Chile! Could it happen here?????? Or is this simply a typical OF Mass????????????????
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23 comments:
The so-called petition begins, "There is a credible report that..."
Well, hell, there's a "credible report" that the noise from windmills causes cancer. So anyone who believes the President of the United States will tell you...
Well, here we go down the ol' rabbit hole again. Lewis Carroll would be so happy. Ms. Bethell never explains her "credible" source, nor, I suspect, does she feel she has any reason to do so.
So she can keep throwing these little pseudo-Catholic grenades here and there, hoping that one of them doesn't blow up in her own face.
It’s a pun on the meaning of ‘PHILADELPHIA”. See also the moviE, too.
Maybe this is one of the topics Martin and Francis discussed in their recent meeting....
I think this is fake news. If true, it would be the final nail in the coffin of a large, institutional Catholic Church in the US.
I put nothing beneath the power of team mercy TM....perhaps it's a preventative measure....
Well, metro Philadelphia (Bucks, Chester, Delaware, Montgomery and Philadelphia Counties) voted 2-1 for Clinton over Trump last time, so sounds like he would be "in touch" with his "constituency"!
The petition can be found at Change.org. Ms. Bethell is somewhat infamous for her "petitons" regarding ecclesial matters.
TJM, I think it is likely TRUE. We know how Francis views the US. This would be a slap in the face to all those Francis haters they imagine only exist in the US.
Anonymous at 3:59,
Along your line of thinking, what about transferring Cordileone to Philly (or Atlanta--a blessing to either diocese) and then making Jimmy Martin archbishop of San Francisco!? Talk being "in touch" with his "constituency" . .
Martin to Atlanta? Yankee in Atlanta, o my!
Fr. McDonald,
Martin to Atlanta---NOOOO!! No, I suggested (tongue in cheek) that the current (EF friendly) Archbishop of San Francisco (Cordileone) be transferred to Atlanta (which, seriously, would be a good thing for Atlanta) so that the gay capital of Frisco would be open for Jimmy Martin.
Or Cordileone to Philly. Same idea.
In the end, it won't matter unless a pope or bishop or cardinal, actually promotes and enforces Catholic teaching within AND accross their jurisdiction.
It is an absurd situation to know that one bishop/priest says one thing, and another says something different.
Francis wasn't kidding when he seemed to be promoting 'making a mess.'
Apparently Cardinal Sarah just said something like: (I paraphrase)
The Vatican CAN'T be doing and saying the things that the Vatican IS saying and doing, so ignore the Vatican(pope) and follow your bishop - unless he is following the Vatican..
So I think that makes me ontologically a protestant now. Except for the fact that I have a bit of 'the Catholic magisterium' of pre-Francis (or gee maybe pre-VII, if I want) in addition to the protestant scripture only way of thinking.
There is something terribly wrong when one is supposed to recognize a 'pope' yet resist... yes, yes, I know Paul resisted Peter, but we are not Paul.
Also, at what point does resistance HAVE to become non-acceptance in order to retain the Faith?
Francis has put me into an absurd position.
Cordelione to Atlanta? Viewers may have a mistaken impression of voting in metro Atlanta, and it ain't the same as Georgia overall. Obama won metro Atlanta in both his 2008 and 2012 presidential bids. Hillary Clinton won it by 8 points over Trump three years ago and far-left Stacey Abrams won the region by a whopping 14 points in 2018 (pro-life Brian Kemp won only because of voting in the "other Georgia", especially rural areas). Metro Atlanta is going the way of Northern Virginia...as for Yankee bishops, well, we are used to them up here---almost every head of our diocese since its creation in 1956 has been a Yankee from our first one (Francis Hyland) to our previous one (Wilton Gregory). An exception was Eugene Marino, from Missisippi---buit that did not turn out too well, exiled after 2 years following his affairs.
Anonymous at 9:26,
Greetings from Waycross and Ware County---definitely part of "the other Georgia." As a lifelong south Georgian, with a family history in this state pre-dating the War Between the States, I am often ashamed of what Atlanta has become politically. As you correctly state, it would not meet most peoples' expectations of classic Georgia--even in the post-civil rights era (I guess a lot of it has to do with "transplants" moving in from other places due to corporate job transfers).
Still, at least for now, Georgia is a center-right to conservative state. As far as church governance goes, we need to be freed from the continuing longtime hegemony of Bernardin's boys . . If San Francisco can have a bishop like Cordileone or Portland can have one like Alexander Sample, why can't Atlanta have an EF friendly bishop in this mold?
Joseph, I would not call Georgia a conservative state, given Stacy Abrams' 49 percent showing here. It is probably more "center right". On abortion, the state is probably about an even divide (depending on how one asks about that issue)---metro Atlanta is (regretfully) more on the pro-choice side while the rest of the state overall is strongly pro-life. The city of Atlanta is 80 percent or more Democratic (though the city makes up just a small part of metro Atlanta). If we had the old "county unit" system of the Talmadges, Republicans would easily win every statewide race in Georgia. Kemp won 130 counties---but lost 8 of the 10 largest voting ones. Yes, it is quite a political contrast between Ware County and here in Fulton County. Kemp got 72 percent in your county and won it by 4,827 votes; Abrams got 72 percent in Fulton and won it by a whopping 193,598 votes. If you are Republican and conservative in Fulton County, you learn to have low expectations, as the last time Fulton voted GOP for president, Harry Truman and LBJ were still alive and Hank Aaron was playing for the Braves. As in the 1972 Nixon landslide over George McGovern.
A successor to Gregory? Who knows. Laity are left in the dark about it. No idea of the candidates or the criteria. We do have an EF parish in Mableton but it is small and I don't think it attracts large numbers. The Cathedral (Christ the King) has a magnificent back altar, but it is seldom if ever used. Even the Episcopalians up here have mostly ditched "ad orientum" for their Eucharists, many of their parishes adopting the "Vatican 2" style altars. I don't detect any groundswell for EF up here, but neither do I oppose its use if their is demand.
Anonymous at 4:59,
Thanks for your response. I have attended the EF parish in Mableton a number of times over the years and, while the building is small, it is usually full or near full for Sunday Mass. Surely, there is more interest in the EF Mass in the greater Atlanta area. Oftentimes, this comes to the fore when more priests volunteer to make it a viable alternative within a Novus Ordo parish.
Your observation about the old county unit system and what it would mean today in terms of political results is very true. I have often made the same observation because, when I think of our state, I don't think of defining it in terms of where its populace is concentrated but, rather, in terms of its geographical boundaries. Being from a rural area, naturally, I bristle at the idea of a population-rich metropolitan area setting policy for the rest of the state.
In national politics, I thank God every day for the electoral college and the Constitutional prescription for two Senators from each state regardless of population! God forbid that California and New York (and other high-population northeastern states) should dictate policy for this country . .
Anonymous said..."We do have an EF parish in Mableton but it is small and I don't think it attracts large numbers."
https://fssp.com/annual-census-shows-prolific-growth-at-fssp-parishes
"Likewise, St. Francis de Sales in Atlanta, established in 1995, has grown 30 percent over the last year. In October of 2018, it averaged 460 people each Sunday; so far this month, it has over 600."
Saint Francis had to add a Sunday Mass to accommodate the growth.
DJR, 600 is fairly small attendance for an Atlanta parish, but I am glad it has grown. I am more comfortable with Of but there ought to be room for both in our Church.
As for Joseph bristling about a population-rich area dominating Georgia, well I guess old Gene Talmadge railed against that too, saying he did not need the votes from streetcar counties. I agree concerning the Electoral College and 2 senators per state---incidentally Stacey Abrams had some piece recently where she was railing against how "undemocratic" the Electoral College and the US Senate are. But our founders had their reservations about "direct democracy", and understandably so---think the "French Revolution"!
Anonymous said..."DJR, 600 is fairly small attendance for an Atlanta parish, but I am glad it has grown."
I guess that depends on one's perpective. We (Epiphany) are "an Atlanta parish," albeit not part of the archdiocese, and 600 people is over 4 times what we get on weekends.
In fact, 600 is more than what Mother of God, Epiphany, and Saint John's get, all combined.
I would venture a guess that there are comparable numbers in some of the smaller parishes on the peripheries of the archdiocese.
One of the reasons for the modest numbers for SFdS is the fact that it is not centrally located. If it had been located somewhat farther east, the numbers would no doubt be greater.
At the public FSSP Masses held in Sacred Heart many years ago, the authorities had to close the building because there were too many people. Even the upper part of the church was completely full.
There is a recent article that points out that, because of the 2 Senator per state rule, a person from Wyoming has 66% more Senate representation than a person from California. This is because, under the original theory, Senators represent the States and not the people of each state (the House does that). As many probably know, Senators were originally elected by the legislatures of their respective states until the Constitution was amended in 1913. All I can say is the founders' reservations about direct democracy were way ahead of their time.
As to Georgia, as the political (and economic) power of the population-rich greater Atlanta area grows, the "other Georgia" becomes more and more Atlanta's de facto colony, politically speaking (still with enfranchisement but ruled from afar by Atlanta). Sometimes I wish we could carve out Atlanta and make it a separate political jurisdiction from the "other Georgia". The "other Georgia" IS a conservative state!
Joseph, I would think twice about calling for secession from the Atlanta area, which provides a lot of the money for the "other Georgia" in terms of schools and roads. Rural Georgia would be hard pressed to fund its schools without money from the State Capitol. Doubtless there is redistribution of wealth from metro Atlanta to the "other Georgia". Some might call that socialism!
The political changes 250 or so miles to your northwest are combination of demographics (large minority growth) and a number of more moderate Republicans deserting the party over Trump's antics. Republicans lost 14 State House seats in metro Atlanta last year---many of them in areas more conservative on economic than social matters. Many did not like the Kemp ads featuring Kemp with his shotgun collection and pointing one indirectly at "Jake." Which makes it all the more interesting about who Kemp will appoint to the Senate---someone more hardline or a more moderate choice? But there will likely be a day in the next decade when the state shifts to blue, and conservatives will have to decide whether to "wait out the storm" or head over to Alabama or Tennessee? As for US senators, a deacon at my parish one time said that direct election of senators was a mistake---you are right they were chosen to represent the state---but unfortunately that horse has fled the barn and we won't be going back to those days.
Anonymous at 5:11,
I agree that the "other Georgia" would lose a lot of currently shared revenue if my highly unlikely fantasy of the severance of greater Atlanta from the rest of Georgia were to become reality. Nonetheless, as far as I am concerned, so be it--our schools waste a lot of money these days on new buildings and bloated central administrative offices in recent times (as when compared the times of my growing up in the 1960's--70's and my father's growing up in the 1940's-early 1950's).
My father used to comment that when he first came to work in Ware County in the mid-1950's, he first met the superintendent of Ware County schools at the Manor Georgia school (then K-12) crawling out from under the 1930's era brick school building wearing green work clothes and holding a monkey wrench. He had just completed some plumbing repairs. Dad said that, at that time, the superintendent had one secretary at his office in Waycross. Admittedly, we had separate city and county school systems at that time (and into the early 1990's). To my knowledge, Ware County's population has not grown much since then, yet, you can imagine what we have today in terms of local educational bureaucracy. It occupies a goodly chunk of an old high school building.
I don't know if you are familiar with a history/tourism magazine called "Georgia Backroads." It is one of my favorite magazines. It highlights history all around the state and shows a lot of what I love about this state (small rural towns with weathered brick store buildings, red clay, white sand and two-lane blacktop roads, historic farmhouses and old stores with old metal Coca-Cola signs, historic battle sites). Contrast this with a magazine called "Georgia Trend" an Atlantacentric publication which, for some curious reason, seems to be found in county offices in courthouses even in rural areas like mine.
I often joke with some of my friends about a continuing trend of consolidation of more and more power in Atlanta which seems to continue unabated (the Georgia Clerk's Cooperative Authority, which seems year by year to continue to take over more and more functions historically performed by county Clerks of Superior Court in Georgia is one notable example). I call this (insidious) trend "the Atlantification of Georgia."
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