This is copied from Rorate Caeli who copies it from the New York Daily News who had a Rorate Caeli contributer write it, but I digress:
NY Daily News Op-Ed -Pining for the Latin Mass: Reflecting on major changes to the Catholic liturgy, 50 years later
By our own contributor Kenneth Wolfe:
Pining for the Latin Mass: Reflecting on major changes to the Catholic liturgy, 50 years laterBy KENNETH J. WOLFENOV 30, 2019 | 5:00 AM
Fifty years ago this weekend, the Catholic Church debuted a new version of Mass following reforms made by the 1960s’ Second Vatican Council. From the use of vernacular language instead of Latin, to the priest facing the people instead of the tabernacle, the changes became mandatory at all parishes on the First Sunday of Advent 1969.
21 comments:
The money quote (Pope Tolerant/Merciful):
“I have at times found myself in front of people who are too rigid, an attitude of rigidity. And I ask myself: how come so much rigidity? You dig, you dig, this rigidity always hides something: insecurity, at times perhaps something else.” This was said by the same Francis who, when asked about homosexual priests, replied “Who am I to judge?”
“I have at times found myself in front of people who are too rigid, an attitude of rigidity. And I ask myself: how come so much rigidity? You dig, you dig, this rigidity always hides something: insecurity, at times perhaps something else.”
Those are the words of our current pope, Jorge Bergoglio, The Francis.
So let me answer this as bluntly as I can: Yes, Holy Father, I AM insecure.
I am insecure that my intelligence is no match for the angelic intelligence of the demons who wish to damn my soul.
I am insecure that our current happy-clappy, no one goes to hell, celebrate everything and forget about confession Novus Ordo culture in the Church is not the answer.
I am insecure that the leadership of our Church has been deceived.
I am insecure that the message of Fatima,. which was supposed to be released in its entirety in 1960 was instead shut away by the pontiff of that time and I do not trust that this gravely important message has been released to us in its complete, proper form.
I am insecure that I will become so lax that I neglect what it takes to follow Jesus Christ without compromise because most of the priests I know have bought into an ecclesiology that is compromised.
I am also insecure that so many priests hace an almost rabid revulsion to the mere mention of the EF, indicating a seriously disordered orientation toward the Church and Her faithful.
So yes, I am insecure. That's why I want what worked for over 1600 years. Catholics have had 50 years of ambiguity and doubt. We need the Church that preached with conviction, authority and certitude.
Go ahead, call me insecure. I can own that.
"Go ahead, call me insecure. I can own that."
From what you post, it looks like you don't just OWN it, you created it!
Anonymous - snarky in that effeminate way....
Mister Wolfe said..
"Since the 1960s, Mass attendance has plummeted, from around 70% of U.S. Catholics every Sunday and Holy Day before the liturgical changes, to 21% of U.S. Catholics currently attending weekly Mass. In other countries, including much of Western Europe, the number can be in the single digits."
Hmmm...Mr. Wolfe failed to have mentioned that the Novus Ordo (as well as Vatican II) has enjoyed tremendous holy success in regard to continents.
Mr. Wolfe isn't keen to note that the Novus Ordo has enjoyed holy, booming success throughout Africa and Asia.
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Mr. Wolfe said...
"But after five decades of experiments and decline, there is some growth to be observed within the Catholic Church. Ironically, it is with traditionalists joining the priesthood, entering convents and attending parishes that offer the very Latin Mass that was replaced 50 years ago."
"Ironically," Mr. Wolfe, again, you failed to have mentioned packed seminaries, convents, and seminaries that exist in Africa, Asia, as well as co-called "conservative" Novus Ordo parishes throughout the world.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mr. Wolfe said...
"But after five decades of experiments and decline, there is some growth to be observed within the Catholic Church. Ironically, it is with traditionalists joining the priesthood, entering convents and attending parishes that offer the very Latin Mass that was replaced 50 years ago."
"Ironically," Mr. Wolfe, again, you failed to have mentioned packed seminaries, convents, and seminaries that exist in Africa, Asia, as well as co-called "conservative" Novus Ordo parishes throughout the world.
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Mr. Wolfe said...
"Interestingly, this growth in tradition — particularly among young Catholics — has occurred while Pope Francis has moved in the completely opposite direction during his nearly seven years in Rome."
He has moved in the opposite direction? Wrong. He has maintained the Catholic Faith.
Conversely, the following is undeniable: Many "traditional" Catholics, at least among those who maintain, as well as post messages to, blogs and Twitter accounts, have mutinied against the Vicar of Christ.
Said folks have declared that the Pope is a heretic...that they have the right to reject Pope Francis' Magisterium...that they trump the Vicar of Christ's God-given authority to teach, govern, and sanctify the Holy People of God.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mr. Wolfe said...
"The Jesuit pope has chastised traditionally minded Catholics numerous times, including saying: “I always try to understand what is behind those individuals who are too young to have lived the pre-Conciliar liturgy, and who want it nonetheless."
Said folks have chastised Pope Francis over this, that, and the other thing. They have attacked and lied about him daily.
Pope Francis' comments about "rigid" Catholics are 100 percent correct.
Nevertheless, Pope Francis has defended and promoted the right of Catholics to worship via the TLM.
He declared to Bishop Rifan the TLM is a "treasure" for the Church.
Pope Francis has blessed the FSSP. He exhorted them to hold fast to their mission within and without the Church.
Pope Francis has defended and promoted the SSPX.
I guess that Mister Wolfe had forgotten all of the above.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mr. Wolfe said...
"This was said by the same Francis who, when asked about homosexual priests, replied “Who am I to judge?”
Mister Wolfe, please get your story straight.
Ilze Scamparini asked Pope Francis the following:
"I would like permission to ask a delicate question: another image that has been going around the world is that of Monsignor Ricca and the news about his private life. I would like to know, Your Holiness, what you intend to do about this? How are you confronting this issue and how does Your Holiness intend to confront the whole question of the gay lobby?
Pope Francis:
"About Monsignor Ricca: I did what canon law calls for, that is a preliminary investigation. And from this investigation, there was nothing of what had been alleged. We did not find anything of that."
"But I wish to add something else: But if a person, whether it be a lay person, a priest or a religious sister, commits a sin and then converts, the Lord forgives, and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets and this is very important for our lives.
"When we confess our sins and we truly say, “I have sinned in this”, the Lord forgets, and so we have no right not to forget, because otherwise we would run the risk of the Lord not forgetting our sins."
"Then, you spoke about the gay lobby. So much is written about the gay lobby. I believe that when you are dealing with such a person, you must distinguish between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of someone forming a lobby, because not all lobbies are good. This one is not good.
********** "If someone is gay and is searching for the Lord and has good will, then who am I to judge him? *************
Mister Wolfe, Pope Francis above response is Catholicism 101. A sinner who has desired to change his life for the better has sought the Lord. The sinner has confessed his sin. God has forgiven the sinner.
Then who am I to judge said person?
Mister Wolfe, the above from Pope Francis is known as...Catholicism.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mister Wolfe said...
"The past 50 years have not been good ones for the Catholic Church. Pope Benedict saw this when he wrote, of the new form of Mass, “we abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it — as in a manufacturing process — with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product.”
Cardinal Ratzinger, not Pope Benedict XVI, said the above.
Anyway, it has always been a failed attempt whenever folks have pitted Cardinal Ratzinger against the Novus Ordo.
Cardinal Ratzinger made the following very clear:
"Lest there be any misunderstanding, let me add that as far as its content is concerned (apart from a few criticisms), I am very grateful for the new Missal, for the way it has enriched the treasury of prayers and prefaces, for the new eucharistic prayers and the increased number of texts for use on weekdays, etc., quite apart from the availability of the vernacular."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT,
Did you get this drivel from that pro Gay "Catholic" website you visit?
So everything is FABULOUS in Catholic land according to Mr Thomas. Did you get that Mr Wolfe? I am sure you've been utterly convinced.
'Mister' Thomas suffers from verbal diarrhoea. It is some time since we were subjected to such a shower of ordure. 'Mister' Thomas also fails to realize that cutting and pasting selective quotations does not an argument make. Indeed, one could cut and paste quotations which would contradict his selection, but it would prove nothing. 'Mister' Thomas seems to think that Cardinal Ratzinger and Pope Benedict are different people.
Sorry, I should have realized that in 'Mister' Thomas's parallel universe Ratzinger, on becoming pope, ceased to be a scholar with his own ideas and became a ventriloquist's dummy spouting words which are from the mouth of Jesus Christ himself. What balderdash, what piffle, what heresy.
Much as I agree with you Mr. Nolan & Dan, I think the smartest thing we can all do is simply stop feeding the troll, if you get my drift. That means IGNORE. His ignorant blather speaks for itself anyway.
Mister Nolan, each response that I posted in regard to Mister Wolfe's claims is a fact.
Examples:
Mr. Wolfe botched his spin upon the "Who am I to judge" story.
The Novus Ordo is packing the pews and seminaries throughout Africa and Asia.
Pope Benedict XVI/Cardinal Ratzinger has been unrelenting in the support that he's given to
the Mass of Saint Pope Paul VI.
Pope Emeritus/Cardinal Ratzinger has insisted that the TLM and Novus Ordo are two forms of the one Roman Rite,
He has insisted that there isn't any contradiction between the TLM and Novus Ordo.
Beyond that, he has insisted for decades that Vatican II has blessed the Church.
He has been unrelenting in support of the Ecumenical Movement and interreligious "dialogue."
He has insisted that climate change is real.
He has linked world peace to the manner in which we are called to treat the earth's environment.
He has praised Pope Francis...and insisted that his former Pontificate and Pope Francis' Pontificate are in continuity with each other.
Mister Nolan, feel free to contradict any of the above...I will prove you wrong.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT,
Your last post shows you lack the intellectual capacity to challenged anyone, let alone John Nolan.
Quit lying about Asia and Africa, you don't know what you are talking about. Did the OF pack the pews in Europe, or North and South America? No, quite the opposite. The pews have been emptying since the Council and accelerated after "Brand X" was imposed in 1969.
Climate Change is real, LOL!!! So you want to turn over your money and freedom to a bunch of wacked out globalists some of whom are the biggest climate footprinters around. Did Obama invite you to his new seaside mansion? A rather odd purchase since we are doomed in 12 years
Maybe the pews are packed because they are not being 'evangelized, but not proselytized' by the likes of Fr. James Martin SJ types. Don't worry, later they will push that upon them.
'Evangelizing' can be such a slow process.
"Mister Nolan, feel free to contradict any of the above...I will prove you wrong."
-Mark Thomas
“It was pride that changed angels into devils; it is humility that makes men as angels.”
-Saint Augustine
Of course climate change is real. It has occurred throughout human history and for millions of years before that.
It is only in the last thirty years that man has had the hubris to think that he can control it. Forty years ago we were obsessing about holes in the ozone layer. Fifty years ago scientists were warning that we were heading for a mini-Ice Age.
The more apocalyptic the predictions, the less credible they are to intelligent people.
Dan,
I know what you mean. That "New Evangelization" has gotten old fast. Really old.
John Nolan,
You stated it better than I, but we are in accord. Only a "liberal" has the hubris to think man can control the climate, whether on earth or in our vast universe. Of course if its biggest proponents lived as if man could control the climate, that would add a modicum of respectability to their cause. I am not holding my breath on that occurring.
"Of course climate change is real. It has occurred throughout human history and for millions of years before that."
No one doubts this, Captain Obvious. But that's not the point, now is it?
"It is only in the last thirty years that man has had the hubris to think that he can control it."
I challenge you to find ONE scientist who, in the climate change debate, has suggested that humans can "control" the climate. Now, if you want to cite scientists who say that humans can impact the climate, in either micro or macro ways, I will say that you have found the point.
Forty years ago no one was obsessing about the ozone layer. Scientists indicated that the ozone layer, which protects us from UV light, was being depleted.
Guess what? People listened to the scientists and ozone depleting substances were restricted or banned.
Guess what again? The ozone layer has recovered.
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