Saturday, February 4, 2017

CONSERVATIVE CRITICISM INTENSIFIES AGAINST POPE FRANCIS

Rome covered in posters critical of the Pope 
... more

I think this is all unprecedented and so unnecessary! Pope Francis and President Trump seem to be inverted opposites of each other but use populist authoritarianism to secure their way thus provoking polar opposite ideological reactions and protests. Both are polarizing, divisive figures.

From the Associated Press:
CONSERVATIVE CRITICISM INTENSIFIES AGAINST POPE FRANCIS

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Conservative criticism of Pope Francis intensified Saturday after his intervention in the Knights of Malta order, with posters appearing around Rome citing his actions against conservative Catholics and asking: "Where's your mercy?"
The posters appeared on the same day that Francis cemented his authority over the Knights by naming a top Vatican archbishop, Angelo Becciu, to be his special delegate to the ancient aristocratic order.
Francis gave Becciu, the No. 2 in the Vatican secretariat of state, "all necessary powers" to help lay the groundwork for a new constitution for the order, lead the spiritual renewal of its professed knights and prepare for the election of a new grand master, expected in three months.
The Vatican's intervention with the sovereign group had provided fuel for Francis' conservative critics, who until Saturday had largely confined their concern with his mercy-over-morals papacy to blogs, interviews and conferences.
On Saturday, dozens of posters appeared around Rome featuring a stern-looking Francis and referencing the "decapitation" of the Knights and other actions Francis has taken against conservative, tradition-minded groups.
Within hours, the city of Rome had plastered over the posters. Police launched an investigation into the conservative circles believed responsible, aided by closed-circuit cameras, the ANSA news agency said.
The posters, written in Roman dialect, also cited the way Francis had "ignored cardinals," a reference to the four cardinals who have publicly asked Francis to clarify whether divorced and civilly remarried Catholics can receive Communion.
Francis hasn't responded directly, though he has made it clear he favors case-by-case allowances.
One of the four cardinals is Raymond Burke, a conservative American whom the pope removed as the Vatican's supreme court judge in 2014 and named to be his liaison with the Knights of Malta. Burke, a staunch defender of Catholic doctrine on sexual morals, has become Francis' most vocal critic and was instrumental in the Knights' saga.
With Burke's support, the Knights' grand master Fra' Matthew Festing sacked the grand chancellor, Albert von Boeselager, over a condom scandal. After learning that the ouster had been done in his name, Francis effectively took over the order. He asked Festing to resign, restored Boeselager to his position, declared all the Knights' sovereign decisions on the matter "null and void" and appointed Becciu to help run the order temporarily.
Becciu's mandate as the pope's "exclusive spokesman" with the order now confirms Burke's marginalization.
In his letter Saturday, Francis said Becciu would work in "close collaboration" with the No. 2 official who technically is in charge at the Knights. But he stressed: "I delegate to you all the necessary powers to decide possible questions that might emerge in carrying out the mandate I have given you."
At a press conference this week, Boeselager insisted the order's sovereignty was never in question during the standoff, though he acknowledged the Vatican's strident statements had led to such misunderstanding that he planned to convene ambassadors accredited to the order to explain.
The Knights are a unique organization: An aristocratic lay religious order that traces its history to the Crusades, the order runs a vast humanitarian organization around the world involving over 100,000 staff and volunteers. The order also enjoys sovereign status and has diplomatic relations with over 100 countries, the Holy See included.

51 comments:

Gene said...

Well, the Pope's most recent foray into dubious theology/heresy is him saying the other day that we shouldn't be too worried about keeping all the Ten Commandments. Let the good times roll, baby!!

TJM said...

I guess when you preach charity but show none to faithful Catholics, this sort of thing will happen. Personally I think modern Popes beginning with Paul VI overexposed themselves which can lead to this sort of criticism. The Pope isn't even in the same league with Trump when it comes to handling the media. Trump plays the left-wing loon media like a violin. THeir daily meltdowns are Comedy Gold.

Dialogue said...

There's nothing good about seeing the pope portrayed in this way, although there is apparently no means for even cardinals to communicate concerns to him. This is a sadness of his own making, but a sadness nonetheless.

Gene said...

TJM, You bet. I've been laughing my butt off and enjoying a conservative high ever since the election. It just keeps getting better.
I love how the Left is revealing its true self...all crazy as Hell and tantrum prone. If they keep it up, and I hope they do, they'll lose even more seats in '18. That, and Trump will probably get to make at least two and possibly three SC appointments, guaranteeing a conservative court for decades. It just don't get any better than that.

Anonymous said...

Didn't somebody said "go make a mess"?

Anonymous said...

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely...the antidote to the bad side effects of absolute power might be absolute faith/humility? Lacking the requisite countervailing faith/humility what is happening with the Papacy today is what one would expect.

Pope Francis is not evil just a victim of the Peter (no pun intended) principle, he has been promoted to a level of responsibility that he is unable to handle. Divine providence will bring something good out of our seemingly hopeless situation.

Anon-1

Anonymous 2 said...

TJM and Gene:

Do you actually believe the stuff you write? Your capacity for projection is astounding. Our new President has a hissy fit meltdown (or perhaps pretends to have one) every time anyone dares to say anything critical of him. And he absolutely cannot handle the Rule of Law (although I suppose it was fine when the shoe was on the other foot and the courts blocked Obama’s immigration executive order). Let’s hope you can. Take heart, though, the case could go either way. There are good arguments on both sides.

rcg said...

Anon-2, I think the issue here is that Pope Francis exposes himself, the Papacy, and the Church to critics such as TJM and Gene through his actions and words. My love for the Church and the Papacy puts me in the position of constantly contriving reasons for what he says and does but he is backing me into a corner. The summary of the events in the article describe someone with not much self awareness or understanding of human nature. While I must be respectful of the Pope I would like to have the ass of his senior staff for letting him stumble so frequently.

Gene said...

Anon2, when have you and your Leftist buddies seen Republicans or conservatives out in the streets smashing windows, punching people, and setting fires? You are one of the worst examples of Leftist lunacy I can think of and dangerous because you are in a position to propagandize students. Meanwhile, I am laughing my apse off at all of you losers.

The Egyptian said...

from Steve Bannon
this kind of explains the Holy Fathers view of capitalism, however the rest is needed to explain the difference,
the whole talk from his vatican from his 2014 speech is at

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/this-is-how-steve-bannon-sees-the-entire-world?utm_term=.yeXvLv97g#.mcv474Axg

David Osterloh

But the thing that got us out of it, the organizing principle that met this, was not just the heroism of our people — whether it was French resistance fighters, whether it was the Polish resistance fighters, or it’s the young men from Kansas City or the Midwest who stormed the beaches of Normandy, commandos in England that fought with the Royal Air Force, that fought this great war, really the Judeo-Christian West versus atheists, right? The underlying principle is an enlightened form of capitalism, that capitalism really gave us the wherewithal. It kind of organized and built the materials needed to support, whether it’s the Soviet Union, England, the United States, and eventually to take back continental Europe and to beat back a barbaric empire in the Far East.
--------------------
That capitalism really generated tremendous wealth. And that wealth was really distributed among a middle class, a rising middle class, people who come from really working-class environments and created what we really call a Pax Americana. It was many, many years and decades of peace. And I believe we’ve come partly offtrack in the years since the fall of the Soviet Union and we’re starting now in the 21st century, which I believe, strongly, is a crisis both of our church, a crisis of our faith, a crisis of the West, a crisis of capitalism.
Now, what I mean by that specifically: I think that you’re seeing three kinds of converging tendencies: One is a form of capitalism that is taken away from the underlying spiritual and moral foundations of Christianity and, really, Judeo-Christian belief.
---------------------------
But there’s a strand of capitalism today — two strands of it, that are very disturbing.

One is state-sponsored capitalism. And that’s the capitalism you see in China and Russia. I believe it’s what Holy Father [Pope Francis] has seen for most of his life in places like Argentina, where you have this kind of crony capitalism of people that are involved with these military powers-that-be in the government, and it forms a brutal form of capitalism that is really about creating wealth and creating value for a very small subset of people. And it doesn’t spread the tremendous value creation throughout broader distribution patterns that were seen really in the 20th century.
=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\
The second form of capitalism that I feel is almost as disturbing, is what I call the Ayn Rand or the Objectivist School of libertarian capitalism. And, look, I’m a big believer in a lot of libertarianism. I have many many friends that’s a very big part of the conservative movement — whether it’s the UKIP movement in England, it’s many of the underpinnings of the populist movement in Europe, and particularly in the United States.
However, that form of capitalism is quite different when you really look at it to what I call the “enlightened capitalism” of the Judeo-Christian West. It is a capitalism that really looks to make people commodities, and to objectify people, and to use them almost — as many of the precepts of Marx — and that is a form of capitalism, particularly to a younger generation [that] they’re really finding quite attractive. And if they don’t see another alternative, it’s going to be an alternative that they gravitate to under this kind of rubric of “personal freedom.”
The other tendency is an immense secularization of the West. And I know we’ve talked about secularization for a long time, but if you look at younger people, especially millennials under 30, the overwhelming drive of popular culture is to absolutely secularize this rising iteration.

John Nolan said...

Anonymous 2

You are entitled to call Gene and TJM to account for what you consider to be hyperbole. A lot of what you write makes sense, although it is a pity you can't or won't identify yourself.

Be that as it may, I have been a Catholic all my life, and have seen a Church apparently determined to tear itself apart. The present situation, and the present pontificate, is without precedent in modern times. Assuming you are a Catholic, do you view this with equanimity?

It would be useful if you could present your own views rather than simply criticize those of others.

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised Fr McDonald hasn't reported on this bombshell:
http://osnetdaily.com/2017/01/catholics-ask-trump-probe-soros-obama-clinton-conspiracy-vatican/

Henry said...

John Nolan: "The present situation, and the present pontificate, is without precedent in modern times."

Let me ask--seriously, not merely rhetorically--whether you know of a pontificate and situation like this one at any time in the history of the Church, whether modern or recent.

Although, as Pope Benedict once remarked, there have been popes that surely could not have been the choice of the Holy Spirit, I do no myself know of one like the current pope among his 265 predecessors.

TJM said...

Anonymous 2, please point out the hyperbole or unfairness in what I have said. I think my response was reasonable and my opinion regarding papal overexposure a valid one. Pope Francis has said very nasty and uncharitable things about conservative/traditional Catholics. I never recall Pius XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, or Benedict XVI taking the low road Pope Francis has taken, although if you can point me to similar nasty language by any of the pontiffs I named to describe fellow Catholics, I would welcome that information.

Anonymous 2 said...

John:

Unfortunately, I don’t think that TJM and Gene’s comments here are just hyperbole.

I was responding to their defense of President Trump and their corresponding attack on anyone who challenges Trump, gratuitously inserting U.S. politics into a thread on Pope Francis and the state of the Church.

And then, typically, Gene resorts to playground ad hominem name calling, asserting yet again that I am a Leftist. You see, John, to Gene anyone who disagrees with him is a Leftist or whatever pejorative epithet leaps into his mind. He has refused even to speak with me in person (fear of contamination I suppose). He knows very well who I am (as I suspect so does TJM) as we have been parishioners of the same Church for several years.

As for my views, they are a matter of record during four years or so of regular contributions to this Blog. Speaking of views, I appreciate The Egyptian providing a link to Steve Bannon’s talk at the Vatican. I agree with much of what Bannon says there in terms of values and goals, although I may disagree about some of the means.

For example, although it is deplorable that those responsible for the economic crisis that began in 2008 have not been held to account, I am not sure that there was any alternative to a bailout (it is a matter beyond my expertise). Also, I support the ideal of the European Community but feel that the Community lost its way and took a wrong turn when it became a Union with a single currency and monetary policy (as for the Syrian refugee crisis, I lay responsibility squarely at the feet of the Bush Administration). By the same token I am in favor of multilateral trade among economies at the same stage of economic development (the original GATT vision) and would have rather followed Sir James Goldsmith’s approach to economic development of less developed countries, emphasizing regional integration fueled by Western investment instead of “jump start” integration of such economies into the GATT/WTO system on the backs of workers in the West. As for the twin threats from secularism and radical Islamic terrorism, the solution to both seems obvious to me—an alliance between Jews, Christians, and Muslims to defend civilized religious values against both.

Perhaps above all, I believe that those who disagree should listen to one another with respect and civility. Preferably, this should be in person if possible. Again, I note that Gene refuses even to meet with me. His attitude, it seems to me, is analogous to those who try to shut down civil conversation on college campuses.


Anonymous 2 said...

P.S. As for my views on the Church, you know, I think, that I support Pope Francis because he is the Pope, just as I supported Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II. I am Catholic, not Protestant, and therefore do not agree that every Catholic can be his own Pope.

Gene said...

John Nolan, What hyperbole?

Mark Thomas said...

"On Saturday, dozens of posters appeared around Rome featuring a stern-looking Francis and referencing the "decapitation" of the Knights and other actions Francis has taken against conservative, tradition-minded groups."

"On Saturday, dozens of posters appeared around Rome featuring a stern-looking Francis..."

That is an old news media trick...employ a photo (or drawing) to promote the the spin associated with a story.

Right-wing Catholic blogs employ that trick to enhance their attacks against the Vicar or Christ, Pope Francis.

Example: The right-wing blog headline reads: "Evil Clown Bergoglio is Leader of International Left-wing, Culture-of-Death Types."

The blogger will select a photo that shows Pope Francis smiling to give the impression that Pope Francis supports with glee the Culture of Death.

Example: FrankieTheHippie hates holy priests."

The photo will feature a "grim" Pope Francis to portray him as being opposed to holiness.

Nazi media types who attacked Pope Venerable Pius XII daily via disgraceful news media reports and techniques would be proud of the vicious right-wingers who do that to His Holiness Pope Francis.

Even the late Jack Chick would have trouble competing against anti-Pope Francis right-wingers in regard attacking the Pope.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Anonymous 2 said...

John:

Apparently my original post to which I then added a P.S. Did not get through. Here it is again:

Unfortunately, I don’t think that TJM and Gene’s comments here are just hyperbole.

I was responding to their defense of President Trump and their corresponding attack on anyone who challenges Trump, gratuitously inserting U.S. politics into a thread on Pope Francis and the state of the Church.

And then, typically, Gene resorts to playground ad hominem name calling, asserting yet again that I am a Leftist. You see, John, to Gene anyone who disagrees with him is a Leftist or whatever pejorative epithet leaps into his mind. He has refused even to speak with me in person (fear of contamination I suppose). He knows very well who I am (as I suspect so does TJM) as we have been parishioners of the same Church for several years.

As for my views, they are a matter of record during four years or so of regular contributions to this Blog. Speaking of views, I appreciate The Egyptian providing a link to Steve Bannon’s talk at the Vatican. I agree with much of what Bannon says there in terms of values and goals, although I may disagree about some of the means.

For example, although it is deplorable that those responsible for the economic crisis that began in 2008 have not been held to account, I am not sure that there was any alternative to a bailout (it is a matter beyond my expertise). Also, I support the ideal of the European Community but feel that the Community lost its way and took a wrong turn when it became a Union with a single currency and monetary policy (as for the Syrian refugee crisis, I lay responsibility squarely at the feet of the Bush Administration). By the same token I am in favor of multilateral trade among economies at the same stage of economic development (the original GATT vision) and would have rather followed Sir James Goldsmith’s approach to economic development of less developed countries, emphasizing regional integration fueled by Western investment instead of “jump start” integration of such economies into the GATT/WTO system on the backs of workers in the West. As for the twin threats from secularism and radical Islamic terrorism, the solution to both seems obvious to me—an alliance between Jews, Christians, and Muslims to defend civilized religious values against both.

Perhaps above all, I believe that those who disagree should listen to one another with respect and civility. Preferably, this should be in person if possible. Again, I note that Gene refuses even to meet with me. His attitude, it seems to me, is analogous to those who try to shut down civil conversation on college campuses.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the popes over the last 50 years are "overexposed" MOST Catholics before the 1960's did not even know the popes name or his face, this is a fact, popes have become to visible and NOT teaching the Roman Catholic Faith let alone the return of The Traditional Latin Mass.

John Nolan said...

Mark Thomas

What blogs have the headlines 'Evil Clown Bergoglio' and 'Frankie the Hippie'? Just who are these 'vicious right-wingers'?

And even if they exist (outside your fevered imagination) it does not follow that all those who have qualms about the present pontificate are tarred with the same brush.

Pox.

John Nolan



Anonymous said...

John Nolan
I don't think we can pin Francis on the Holy Ghost but I do see blogs with headlines like that. Google "Mundabor".

Gene said...

Anon 2, Meeting with you would just be a waste of time for both of us. I have only had one or two liberal friends or acquaintances over the years, but I have since just ceased to communicate with any of them. There is absolutely no common ground anymore, plus I consider them to be serious enemies of the Republic, no joke. It is sad that the nation is so dangerously polarized...I don't think I have ever seen it this bad. Even with all the 60's civil rights tensions, blacks and whites were at least talking and could find some common ground...not anymore. I honestly believe (no hyperbole here) that, once the protesters begin destroying property and burning cars and such, the police should open fire with real bullets (none of this PC rubber bullet crap). Rioting and looting should be met with deadly force. These people are crazy and dangerous. Did you see all your academic buddies screaming and cursing on TV? Nice.

The Egyptian said...

A2
Thank you all I was trying to point out is that Francis has a warped view of capitalism and thus the USA, As Fr Z points out when speaking on subjects outside of religion and in interviews Francis is giving his opinion not a statement of faith, Sadly the media loves to push his every comment, many out of left field as somehow being a new pronouncement "from the chair", remember "who an I to judge" I have had that slapped in my face so often about the most idiotic of things I want to scream.
A1
while I have not seen the HBO movie The Young Pope, this clip intrigues me,sort of makes your point, Francis is WAY over exposed
https://youtu.be/s5WW9wsfQG4

The Egyptian said...

Gene,
you may enjoy this per your comments, warning not for the prudish
http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/comic/snowflake-special/

Anonymous said...

Here in Atlanta, the bigger criticism is of the Falcons' incredible collapse last night in the Super Bowl...could it have been the Almighty favored traditionally Catholic Boston over traditionally Catholic Atlanta? Perhaps I should have known the day was off to a bad start when the celebrant yesterday was a priest from Boston!!!!!

TJM said...

Anonymous 2, my feelings are hurt. You never explained how my statements were mistaken. You just talked past them with glittering generalities.

TJM said...

Anonymous 2, my feelings are hurt. You never explained how my statements were mistaken. You just talked past them with glittering generalities.

I am still waiting to see pictures of Pius XII yucking it up with Adolph Hitler and St. John XXIII engaged in deep conversation with Nikita Kruschev!

John Nolan said...

Actually, the first pope whose face was well known and whose portrait graced the walls of humble Catholic households was Leo XIII (1878-1903). He is strangely underrated - his predecessor was beatified and his successor canonized - but for my money he is the greatest pope of modern times.

Apart from anything else, his teaching (86 encyclicals!) is unambiguous without being hidebound, and he wrote exquisite Latin poetry. His successor (St Pius X) is seen as being more 'pastoral' (before the word acquired the pejorative meaning it has today) but lacked Leo's intellect and broad-mindedness.

The worst pope of modern times? Too early to judge Francis, but Paul VI is a front-runner.

The Egyptian said...

speaking of frank the hippy pope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEchg1KhmTY
by LutheranSatire, you got to hand it to the lutherans, they do satire well
or if you really want something off the wall
The Apostles' Creed (Not the Nine O'Clock News)
https://youtu.be/IUQcCvX2MKk

Henry said...

Anyone reminded of the famous line from Atlas Shrugged, "Who is John Galt?" (Who is Anonymous 2?)

Anonymous 2 said...

TJM:

I was not responding to your comments about Pope Francis but to your comments about Trump. And I did address those.

Anonymous 2 said...

Gene:

There you go again, calling me “liberal.” I am not liberal. Nor am I conservative—in the sense in which you understand the term. I refuse to be politically labelled or to belong to a political tribe.

I am, however, proud to be called Catholic, albeit a struggling one (as I suspect we all are) and a lawyer (English barrister and American law professor in my case) committed to the Rule of Law and the process that safeguards it.

And there is plenty of common ground to be found. It's just that so many of us have simply forgotten how to look for it.

Anonymous 2 said...

The Egyptian:

It will be interesting to see how Trump (and Bannon) supporters try to reconcile their antagonism towards Pope Francis’s views on the economy with Steve Bannon’s very similar views once they realize the similarity.

TJM said...

John Nolan,

Paul VI I am sure would be happy to cede that title to Francis.

You and I have witnessed the almost complete collapse of Catholicism in our lifetime, but we we aren't through yet. With continuing weak catechesis, a painfully bland and boring Liturgy (OF), and the unwillingness of prelates to push back on left-wing loonism and assert the truth of the Faith, there will be little left of Catholicism in another 20 years. The last ones standing will be the "rigid" young people who are attracted to the EF, you know, the folks that Pope Mercy condemns.

TJM said...

Anonymous 2, I would like a response about Pope Francis. Inquiring minds would like to know if you are a papalotor

The Egyptian said...

A2
it will be just as interesting to see how Ttrump as Hitler Bannon-Darth Vader types will reconcile themselves with the fact that Bannon and by extension Trumps views closely follow Catholic doctrine

My main point is that as a south American Francis is woefully uneducated in true capitalism, knowing only crony capitalism from his own country ( which is what wee have degraded into and it will take men of true Catholic good faith to rectify ) painting with a broad brush a very effective system. The alternative, socialism, is much worse, we as Christian men need to be the light shining on the abuse. We need to stop glorifying men like Gates and so on, they all lead to corruption like Soros,

TJM said...

Don't Cry for Me Argentina! Maybe Pope Francis took economic lessons from the Perons!!

Anonymous 2 said...

TJM:

If you would like me to respond, can you please provide the relevant particulars to support your allegations against Pope Francis.

Joe Potillor said...

What seems to be missing, is that these posters are not coming from the conservatives or liberals, but from the Roman people themselves. It's interesting to say the least.

I can only say to the various criticisms the pope gets, is that he brings it upon himself, with an inability to speak clearly (95% of the time), and with the volume of speech...

John Nolan said...

TJM

In economic terms Bergoglio is indeed a Peronist (and we can infer that his theological guru/ghostwriter Fernandez is as well). If you have the stomach for it, go back and read their joint production Evangelii Gaudium.

We are nearly four years into this papacy, and any assessment is difficult. There is room for different interpretations.

The first of these is that he has an agenda for radical and irreversible change. This is what Fernandez has trumpeted. Shortly after his election the media were talking about 'Pope Francis's revolution'. If true, we should see more signs than we do of 'an old man in a hurry'. Curial reform has largely consisted of personnel changes which probably won't amount to much. Wordy and diffuse ramblings about the environment are hardly revolutionary - we hear them from the secular media on a daily basis.

Alternatively, he was put forward by an anti-Ratzinger faction, 'Team Bergoglio', who were dismayed by the 2005 result but failed to ascertain whether or not he was up to the job. Francis certainly comes across as an essentially weak man whose forays into authoritarianism sound petulant. His choice of favourites is worrying. At first it appeared that he would work closely with Gerhard Müller, just as JP II worked with Ratzinger. However, Müller is frequently at odds with the German Bishops' Conference and has stated, correctly, that Conferences do not have authority in themelves. Evangelii Gaudium hinted at giving Conferences more autonomy - the worst recipe for decentralization that could be devised.

At present I veer towards the second interpretation. I don't think he has the makings of a revolutionary. His blatant attempt to rig the 2014 synod backfired spectacularly, and although he has a stubborn streak, he is unlikely to trigger a conflict which will overshadow what's left of his pontificate.

Meanwhile, we'll have to keep praying and sit it out.

Anonymous said...

ALTERNATIVE FACTS ALERT:

"Bannon and by extension Trumps views closely follow Catholic doctrine"

Trump has five children by three wives, has bragged in print about his fornications and adulteries, and has talked about f****** a married woman, grabbing her p****, and getting away with it because he is a "celebrity." He routinely denigrates women who he considers to be unattractive.

Bannon has been married three times with his twins being born three days after his marriage to his second wife. His Breitbart site is known for it's factual errors and refusal to correct the same. It is anti-Semitism and Islamophobic, and is, with the withdrawal of more than 100 advertisers, hurting.

No, Bannon and Trump do not have views (or lives) that closely follow Catholic doctrine.

TJM said...

John Nolan,

Thank you for your perspectives on Pope Francis. Oddly, it's comforting.

Anonymous at 8:05 am,

You sound unhinged. After the sexual antics and misdeeds of Bill Clinton, I wouldn't think you would have the temerity to attack Trump. Moreoever, Trump isn't an abortion drooler like Clinton.

The Egyptian said...

Anon

Please post facts or links, not just spot talking points to cover your disparagement of Breitbart news, you obviously have not read it or studied Bannon, both are totally not antisemitic or racist, the race card has run out it's been over drafted and closed by the left

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mQRiONTrZNQ/WJXQ2gT-kpI/AAAAAAADGQU/O34tHRvbQc00NfBlYGX-ovA63_IxKpWmwCLcB/s1600/theo4.jpg

as for trump I was commenting on economics and capitalism, I hate to go through this again but here goes
Adam ate the apple
Noah ended up a drunk
Moses doubted and was excluded from the promised land
David was a philanderer
Thomas doubted
Paul persecuted
Augustine begged for chastity, but not yet
the only one perfect was not listed,
and i didn't hear anyone compare Trump to Christ
God works through some real fallen people, so lets pray and hope, because if your waiting for someone perfect, you've got a long wait


The Egyptian said...

just read this old topic but had to for anon's sake

USA Today recently reviewed hundreds of hours of Bannon’s radio commentaries and found none of the racism, antisemitism or “white nationalism” that the Times, among others, falsely ascribed to him. All it found was that Bannon worried about the threats posed by Islam and China.

Anonymous 2 said...

It is all so depressingly simple: In this time of tribal politics bad character and vice matter when we are talking about the other tribe’s chieftain but not when we are talking about our own. This is why Hillary’s corruption and lies were emphasized and seen as inexcusable by the Tribe of Trump and The Donald’s were denied or excused and, of course, vice versa.

The truth, of course, is that these things matter whichever chieftain we are talking about.

TJM said...

Anonymous 2,

It must be depressing these days to be a Democrat when all you have is trying to say that the Donald is on the same level as Hillary's mendacity. Trump has been subject to a non-stop barrage of media attacks in stark contrast to the lovefeast Hillary enjoyed from the corrupt, national media. So there must not be much "there, there" when it comes to Trump because believe me, the Media is looking for it, 24/7.

Harry Truman would have vomited at the thought of Hillary Clintoon being his Party's standard bearer. A woman whose whole existence is dedicated to gather power for HER financial gain. Please let me know a "public" servant who has come even close to Hillary in terms of avariciousness. Funny she isn't getting $250,000 for a 30 minute speech these days from Wall Street!

Anonymous 2 said...

TJM:

I have learned from my interactions with substance abusers that it is not good arguing with those who are in denial. Something similar applies here. You are still in denial about The Donald. You will have to recognize rock bottom yourself.

TJM said...

Anonymous 2

I have learned from my interactions with liberals that it is not good arguing with them because they lack intellectual honesty and engage in constant projection, accusing others of the conduct they are committing. Par example, the rioters at Berkley calling the pro-Milo folks fascists/nazis!! LMAO at you!

Anonymous 2 said...

TJM:

So , let me get this straight. Is it your position that Donald Trump does not constantly lie (or, perhaps more charitably put, constantly utter falsehoods) and that any allegations that he does so are liberal projections?

I am sorry to upset your narrative but I have no sympathy for the rioters at Berkeley or, more generally, for the PC crowd that would shut down disfavored speech on college campuses. Provided that certain basic norms of civil discourse are observed there are very few substantive views that are so far beyond the pale that the appropriate response to them is not more speech—particularly at a university of all places!

TJM said...

Although I applaud your sentiments in the second paragraph, you will likely lose your professorial gig if you express them on today's fascist training camps aka universities.

Donald Trump, when accused by the evil, corrupt national media of lying or making things up, is consistently found to be accurate and the media in the WRONG. A poll that came out today said a majority of Americans find Trump more trustworthy than the national media. In terms of liars extraordinaire look no further than Pelosi, Reid, Obama, and the Clintoons. Former Senator Bob Kerry and fellow Democrat said that Clinton was an unusually good liar. Even Chrissy Matthews once upon a time (before he went over to the dark side) referred to the Clintons as liars, with their legions of liars!!