Saturday, November 12, 2011
SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD AND ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, I'LL TAKE THE LATTER, WITH CREAM AND SUGAR PLEASE
My comments first: As a Catholic growing up in the Bible Belt and with Southern Baptists and Presbyterians in particular, I certainly have been influenced by Calvinism. It's part of the southern culture of religion and you almost breathe it in. There are some aspects of it I like that appeal to the Jansenism that many Irish-American Catholics were dished by a predominantly Irish Church in America. But what really intrigued me was "Once saved, always saved." That would reduce a great deal of Catholic anxiety about salvation if only it were true. But is it? I fret so much! But Carol's comment on the Four Last Things and Pinanv525 response to hers I find fascinating. PINANV525 is a former Presbyterian Minister and member of St. Joseph Church in Macon now.
Carol H. said...
When I lived in Dayton, Ohio, my parish priest said that if anyone truly understood how horrible the effects of their sins were, they would never commit any. He then went on to say that this proves our ignorance and therefore mortal sin is impossible. Nobody commits mortal sin, so everyone will go to heaven.
He then began a building renovation campaign, removed the tabernacle from front and center and hid it behind a glass block wall, and removed the pews-replacing them with interlocking chairs. He said the church should resemble a tea-house, and feel empty when no people are inside. He told us that we were no longer allowed to kneel for the consecration, and that we had to stand for all of the kneeling parts- even after receiving communion.
I thank God for EWTN because they educated me in the true faith. My family left that parish and found one that preached the truth.
Please pray for the ignorant victims who fall prey to false teaching, and also for the false teachers, that Christ shine his light upon them so they see their errors. Maybe if they receive this grace they, like St Paul, will spend the rest of their lives proclaiming the true gospel.
pinanv525 then said:
It is really only a short step,theologically, from "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" to the neo-protestant "universal salvation" of Carol's misguided and heretical pastor. The protestant (and post Vat II for some Catholics) view of sin, embodied in its purest form in Calvin's doctrine of "Total Depravity," was intended to emphasize the overpowering triumph of Christ's Grace. The blacker and more hopeless our sinfulness, all the more marvelous is Christ's mercy. Only the terrible Sovereignty of a wrathful God is powerful enough, through the loving and redeeming Son, to save sinners in bondage to the power of evil. This, of course, leads to Calvin's doctrines of "Unconditional Salvation and Irresistible Grace;" God must do it all...we can do nothing because we are so mired in sin there is nothing left of God's Image in us.
There is no distinction, in Protestantism, between venial and mortal sin; theologically, stealing a piece of bubble gum is as much a stain on God's Holiness as murder. All sin, however small, is a violation of the Righteousness of God. So, the logic of such thinking leads, ultimately, to just the kind of mentality Carol is reacting to in her Priest...universalism. (Calvin, perhaps seeing this coming, could only avoid it with his misunderstood and extreme view of Predestination.)
Interestingly, this theology of Universalism plays right into the hands of the secular, egalitarian mindset and is what has led to such things as trying to normalize homosexuality and gay marriage, defending abortion, cultural and moral "equivalence," and a hatred for authoritarianism and traditionalism in any form...especially something as outrageous as the EF and all it implies theologically.
This is a part of the reason I became a Catholic; the fruits of Protestantism are a clear indication of its error and continuing degeneration. We cannot allow this to happen in the Catholic Church...God will not allow it as long as we are faithful. Go to Confession! Go to Mass! Christ have mercy!