It seems to me that no matter how much Pope Francis marginalizes those who are orthodox as going backwards, it is in fact Pope Francis who has been bringing the Church backwards to the 1970’s.
The 1970’s was and still is a miserable failure. To go back to that is a disaster and we will continue to bleed membership to non-denominational and more orthodox evangelicalism.
Pope Benedict is the way forward. I believe that once he passes to His Holiness just reward, the Church will rediscover his way forward and finally put to rest the disaster that the 1970’s was and is!
22 comments:
I have concluded the pope and most bishops and priests simply do not care: Apres moi le deluge seems to be their lazy and misguided approach.
It saddens me greatly to think of a world without the Emeritus pope, his intellect and his gentle way of teaching. That said, I think Benedict XVI's legacy will be significant and felt for years. Many will disagree with me, but his plan to re-enchant the liturgy and eliminate the minefield to the TLM created, at least in my circles, a level of excitement/enthusiasm/passion for the Church and her liturgy that I have no recollection of before or since (I was born during Paul VI). It's just a shame that the rumored "den of vipers" did whatever they were rumored to have done to lead to his abdication. That's speculation and conspiracy theory oriented to be sure, but, come on folks, something went wrong....terribly, terribly wrong inside a likely dramatic and hyper political Vatican (that's the minimum of its likely problems).
Should leveler heads prevail, Benedict's legacy is probably assured and the right path that he benevolently laid out for us should ultimately prevail. Until then, we should likely batten down the hatches as I don't think the storm is anywhere near over.
ByzRus,
Well said! The leftwing loons running the Vatican will ultimately fail. In my area we have 3 diocesan staffed parishes. All 3 pastors are in their 30s, wear the cassock and celebrate the TLM. They just roll their eyes when you speak of the current papacy. They are the future! Deo gratias.
I think when Pope Benedict passes the old says will end soon.
Continued prayers for holy Pope Emeritus. May God comfort Pope Emeritus. May God grant eternal salvation to Pope Emeritus.
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I believe that three major groups will promote narratives in regard to Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI's legacy. Said narratives will focus a great deal upon Vatican II...as Emeritus is linked in powerful fashion to the Council.
'
(The right-wing will have the most to lose in that regard. I will get to that.)
1. Pope Francis' (should he outlive Pope Emeritus...and I do not say that lightly as it's all about God's will)...
...narrative will pay great attention to the tremendous roles that Emeritus played in regard to Vatican II: Vatican II peritus...then in having defended, and promoted, the Council...then, as Pope Benedict XVI, in having interpreted, and implemented, the Council.
Pope Francis, in line with Emeritus' 60-year-old unrelenting promotion of Vatican II, will insist that the Council has blessed the Church abundantly...and heap upon Emeritus great praise for said success.
The majority of Catholics will side with Pope Francis' narrative in question.
2. Liberals will agree that Emeritus contributed greatly to Vatican II...until...and this is where they will promote the tired, false narrative that Emeritus had done so until 1968 A.D.
Liberals will insist that from 1968 A.D., to date, Emeritus has acted as a rigid, right-wing reactionary. They will claim that he has worked to "apply the breaks" to Vatican II.
3. Right-wingers have a great deal to lose in regard to discussions about Emeritus' legacy. The reason is that they have claimed that Emeritus was a great Pope...they have wished that he had not resigned...he was "their" Pope.
Liberals have not claimed the above. They have not pretended to have favored Pope Emeritus. Liberals, at least in that regard, have not been phonies.
However, the right-wing has long been at war with "their" Pope...at war with Emeritus in regard to his unrelenting support for:
-- The Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI...a Mass denounced by right-wingers.
-- Emeritus' unrelenting support for the Ecumenical Movement...a movement denounced by right-wingers.
-- Emeritus' unrelenting support for interfaith dialogue...denounced by right-wingers.
-- Emeritus' claims in regard to "the two forms of the one Roman Rite"...claims denounced by right-wingers.
-- But mainly...in regard to Emeritus' unrelenting, defense, and praise, of Vatican II.
Emeritus has insisted for 60 years that Vatican II has blessed the Church...is in line with Holy Tradition. Two months ago, Emeritus praised Vatican II as "not only meaningful, but necessary."
Conversely, the right-wing has insisted that Vatican II was neither meaningful, nor necessary. They have insisted that Vatican has been an horrific, pew-empting, monumental, destructive flop that must be destroyed.
It is right-wingers, not Pope Francis, who are at war with Pope Emeritus/His Legacy.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas,
Since you have not responded to my question about what Pope Francis did to discipline the clerics involved in a cocaine fueled sex orgy at the Vatican, your comments have no validity.
IF you are part of the left wing you are proabortion, gay marriage, and transgendersim which will get you sent to a very hot place when you die.
"Rightwingers" do not support abortion, gay marriage, or trangenderism, so they seem to be on the side of the Angels and not Demons like the Leftwing.
Bellum!
Mark Thomas,
Here's another example of the evils of transgenderism: this creature from the leftwing killed the father:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/12/smirking-trans-daughter-arrested-fathers-murder/
"Bellum" Someone is channelling the Marquise Isabelle de Merteuil.
In regard to holy Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI's legacy:
It is impossible to separate Pope Emeritus from Vatican II.
But his resignation...actually, his reason for having resigned as Pope...may...may someday enter prominently into the discussion that concerns Emeritus' legacy.
Summorum Pontificum is but a footnote in regard to Emeritus' legacy. Far too many bishops, as well as trads, had long ago destroyed Summorum Pontificum.
That has all but left Vatican II, as well...perhaps...Emeritus' reason for having resigned, as key aspects to consider in regard to his legacy.
Emeritus has insisted that jet air travel has revolutionized the Papacy. Popes are compelled to make Apostolic Visits...to appear in person at such events as WYD.
A Pope may be mentally sharp. But his physical ability to sustain air travel will determine as to whether he may serve as Pope.
Will Popes throw in with Emeritus' in regard to when Popes should resign? If such is the case, then Emeritus will have helped to revolutionize the Papacy. That would force a major reexamination of his legacy.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Actually, MT, most bishops have ignored Traditiones Custodes and the TLM continues to spread. You can live in denial if you like. 3 of our local diocesan parishes in my county ( there are only 3 parishes) whose pastors are all in their 30s celebrate the TLM. So whom am I to believe, you, a leftwinger, or my lying eyes?
Here are the beautiful words of Cardinal Angelo De Donatis, Vicar of the Diocese of Rome, who celebrated today a special Mass at the Lateran Basilica:
"We want to support Benedict XVI with our confident prayer, to sustain him with all our affection, to express to God the gratitude of this diocese that he loved and cherishes so much and served with selfless love."
"We like to think that he is now being held by the hand of St. Joseph, who helps him to keep God's invitation not to fear always alive."
"Like St. Joseph, our bishop emeritus always emphasized the primacy of the Word of God over our human words, recalling the great value of silence and listening. He too made us taste, in his pontificate, the new and good wine of love."
"When He wills, God will approach this brother of ours and say to him, 'Joseph, rise. Joseph, rise.' And it will be Christ and his Mother who will take him with them and lead him to Paradise, where the dream of a lifetime will become the reality of eternity, to us the task of supporting the path of the Pope Emeritus."
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The above is Pope Emeritus' true legacy...a holy man, a friend, and follower of Jesus Christ..a holy man who awaits entrance into Paradise...a man beloved by millions of Catholics.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
TJM says to MT that “Since you have not responded to my question about what Pope Francis did to discipline the clerics involved in a cocaine fueled sex orgy at the Vatican, your comments have no validity.”
This contention is as logical as saying to TJM that “Since you have not condemned the lies and gaslighting of George Santos and the silence of almost all Republicans regarding said lies, gaslighting, and silence, your comments have no validity.”
But TJM can now restore validity to his comments by declaring such a condemnation.
“How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?”
Mark Thomas,
Please respond to my post which is based on reality. Yours is based on wishful thinking. It is impolite not to respond to my request that you tell me what Pope Francis did to discipline the clerics at the Vatican who were engaged in a cocaine induced gay sex orgy. Perhaps the answer is you have no response because it demonstrates that the pope did nothing which demonstrates he approves of such conduct and is no better than the bishops who protected those pervert priests who abused young men. You are between a rock and a hard place. You really need counseling to get to the root of why you worship a Golden Calf rather than Jesus Christ.
Pax or Bellum?
While the grace of God assures us of a peace that transcends human understanding, let's not kid ourselves. The only peace we can hope for these days is within. Our Church has been in a civil war since Vatican II. War has been declared on the Church by Muslims, Protestants, Heretics, Atheists, Hedonists, Homosexualists, Nazis, Communists, Fascists, Fundamentalists, Modernists and just about every other "ist" that can find a zeitgeist to cling to.
TJM is right. Any surrender to the enemy of Truth is a false peace.
Bellum it is.
Mark,
LOL! What about Elizabeth “Fauxchahontas” Warren and “Viet Nam Vet” Blumenthal? Or are your “principles” limited to one side of the political aisle? Notice I did not bring up the avalanche of resume lies of Joe Biden! Academia is really scraping the bottom of the barrel these days if that is what you have to offer as an argument. Maybe StarBucks is calling you!
TJM:
You regularly bring up this alleged incident from 2017, using it in an attempt to discredit what MT writes about Pope Francis, So, I have some questions:
What would Pope Benedict XVI have done about the alleged incident?
If Pope Benedict would also not have done anything public (notice, this implies the possibility of attempting to respond privately), would you be saying the same thing to discredit a commenter who wrote about Pope Benedict as MT does about Pope Francis?
And if not, why not?
Thank goodness we have been warned about the "-ists" that are in cahoots to do harm to Truth and to the Church.
That numismatist can't be trusted with the faith. He'll drop a DIME on you and run... But he's not the worst offender; he's merely a QUARTER-finalist...
The philatelist wants to STAMP out the faith. He'll LICK you if you let him in the door...
If you want to FLAG the really dangerous one, point to the vexillologist...
Now, you won't be able to take much of the oenologist. All she does is WINE about how bad things are in the Church... You have to put a CORK in her verbal excesses...
The phrenologist - he's going to make the road very BUMPY for the faithful...
Yes, thanks for the warning!!!
Mark,
If you find MT’s obsequious comments useful, so be it. I am actually trying to bring a touch of reality to his nonsensical worship of a Pope, something Catholics should avoid. His approach goes far beyond standard ultramontanism which has contributed to the current sorry state of the Church. The record shows that Pope Benedict took a firmer approach to perverts in the clergy, firmer than either St. John Paul and Pope Francis. So I am confident these miscreants would have been dealt with under his watch. I see you are no longer pursuing Congressman Santos in light of a few examples I noted. Happy New Year!
TJM:
No, my principles are not confined to one side of the aisle, especially as I give my allegiance to neither side of the aisle. So, yes, I am very ready to disapprove of the examples of mendacity you cite. Now, what about you? Are you ready to do the same regarding Santos?
By the way, FWIIW, the examples of isolated mendacity you cite, even Biden’s campaign stop rant in 1987, cannot compare with the comprehensive mendacity and gaslighting of Santos, and you know it. Jew-ish indeed! Good grief.
I brought up Santos for two reasons. First, to point out the silliness of your arguments trying to discredit MT’s comments supporting Pope Francis. Second, because the egregiousness of Santos’s mendacity (for which Trump prepared us of course), demonstrates just how far our politics have fallen. Instead of silence (or hand wringing), the man should be slung out on his ear or, better yet, barred from ever crossing the portal. That might at least provide a glimmer of hope, a glimpse of integrity. And as Catholics, we should be ardent defenders of facts and truth, and the virtues of honesty and integrity—even in politics!
Also, at some point, please instruct us on how “[t]he record shows that Pope Benedict took a firmer approach to perverts in the clergy, firmer than either St. John Paul and Pope Francis.” Given the sad news about Pope Benedict’s death today, we might want to postpone addressing this matter further until a later time in the interests of respect and decorum.
P.S. Happy New Year to you (and others here) too!
Mark,
Then you should demand that the three I mentioned resign. Warren in particular is despicable misusing minority status to scam academia no less. Cheers!
TJM:
Nice try at distraction, but sorry no cigar. You must tell me first whether you are prepared to disapprove of Santos’s gross and egregious lying. Well, are you?
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