to chalice or not to chalice?
The building is not being used as it was originally intended and it has a temporary and awkward look that is painfully obvious. Otherwise, it is a beautiful building with a beautiful, perfectly good and useable high altar and railing that should be used. It just goes to show how ridiculous that "spirit Vatican II" liturgist mentality can be.
Reminds me of a Unitarian worship space.
I think it is quite lovely!
Eve thought the Serpent was lovely, too.
I'm concerned all can't participate. The altar should be on a platform that rotates. However, Eyeballing it, EPII isn't long enough for more than 1 1/2 revolutions!
If that high altar could talk, it would cry out USE ME.
The church is beautiful, but the arrangement is entirely wrong. Not only do those seated between the high altar and table alter have their backs turned to Christ in the tabernacle, but it is a complete waste of space.Maybe this is an effort to make empty Masses appear to be more full?
Eve's error wasn't in thinking the serpent was lovely, but in listening to what he had to say.Which is why I never listen to you.Cheers!
Well the good news is that all those liberal "nuns" will be dead and buried and forgotten in a very short period of time. Silver linings.
ByzRC, I literally cracked up at your rotating altar comment---but, wait---maybe that is what the Church will come out with next in an attempt to bridge the divide between the "pig-headed" retrograde ad-orientem folks like us and the "progressive" "spirit of Vatican II" versus populum die-hards. Just like the stopped clock that is right twice a day, the two camps could be happy with the orientation of the priest about half the time!
Are the SISTERS OF SAINT JOSEPH OF CORONDELET known to be an extremely liberal order? I think so! I don't object to a lot of the modern churches like some of your readers, but to me this arrangement is just plain dumb. The Church looks beautifully maintained and its original altar is appropriate. The current arrangement looks not only dumb, it is disrespectful and arrogant. It truly is offensive
Anon/Kavanaugh, No, she could listen all she wanted...her error was in committing the action he suggested...DISOBEDIENCE.
This is the direct result of religious orders that in the age of "THE SPIRIT OF VATICAN II" lost all sight of their devotion to Christ or the Sacred Heart or (in our area) the Precious Blood. Now they are devoted to themselves, their worldly "mission" so to speak, so it makes sense that the "presider" faces a wall during the mass and when preaching while the "congregation" looks at each other and approves of themselves. Totally self centered and slowly dying inside. Hopefully some day a new order will take over and restore the beauty of this churchBrings up a question in the past if an order was slowly dying off didn't they look to joining another order and moving on. Now it seems that they are determined to live to the last ones then selling and dividing the spoils, like a BUNCH OF SPOILED BRATS
I was taught by the CSJs in Atlanta and Augusta prior to Vatican II and they were a premiere active religious order with many many young sisters. At their peak in the early 60's they would have had about 20 nuns in their Augusta hospital, which they sold to a for profit corporation which has since sold to the largest hospital in Augusta. They couldn't staff it any longer. There were about 15 teaching nuns in Augusta too at the elementary and high school. There is not a single sister of St. Joseph left in Augusta. At one time in the 1930's they had plans to have a motherhouse in Augusta.At least they did not destroy the integrity of the pre-Vatican II altars, railing etc and it is still quite beautiful and the new furnishings are of high quality. But the arrangement is typical of the 1970's wreckovations. It could easily be restored with little money spent to do it.
Let's pray that the thriving women's religious orders like the Nashville Dominicans or the Sisters of the Life or the Sisters of Mercy of Alma buy them out and take it over.
No, Gene, it was in the Serpent's words. Which, the Rabbis teach us, is why the LORD did not allow the serpent to speak.Adam got to speak - he said "Blame Eve!"Eve got to speak - she said "Blame the Serpent!"But the serpent, who had already done the damage by speaking, was not allowed to offer any defense.CHEERS!
"It could easily be restored with little money spent to do it."All protestant communion tables should have rollers, for easy departure when true worship at a Catholic altar of sacrifice is restored.
Joseph Johnson - It scares me that there people who would probably think it's a great idea. Maybe, depending on the layout of the church, the reader, cantor and Fr. at the chair should all spin too!Henry - I agree however, here, the dimensions and style are about right for the Russian Orthodox, the Ukrainians or, us Rusyns. It's a beautiful, misplaced fixture.
"It could easily be restored with little money spent to do it."It wouldn't even require money, just a tiny amount of effort. The chairs just have to be moved so they face the original altar. The new (V-2) altar can become a side altar. That way the only thing really removed is the pews, and they are replaced by chairs. Also the seating capacity is reduced by half. Wreck-o-cation is Renovated by restoring the seating. Simple.
ByzRC, The whole spinning altar thing makes me think of one of those old (1930's-1950's) video-clips of a (then) new car spinning on a platform with a beautiful female model as it made its debut at an auto show. I guess it just goes hand in hand with the "spirit of Vatican II" show-man priest mentality!
Joseph Johnson - Those car shows were probably the genesis of the sanctuary archipelago as well!
Pope Benedict XVI said that there can be no rupture as to the pre-Conciliar and post-Conciliar Church. Yet, scenes like this (with the very unnatural contrived re-orientation of a beautiful church with high altar still intact but "off to the side" at every liturgy) quietly (but loudly) scream RUPTURE!
One thing that we should perhaps consider is the effect of this wreckovation on the theology of the building itself. Without question the fixtures are beautiful (the ambo is particularly nice) but, their placement doesn't respect the layout of the existing building as a representation of our life's Christian journey. This church's current layout is probably close to the following: narthex, nave, 'sanctuary', nave and perhaps the former sanctuary/apse area is now acting as the 'chapel of reservation'. Regarding the current 'sanctuary', there really is nothing to distinguish it from where the people are gathered except for the medallion in the floor beneath the altar. There is nothing to stop non-clergy/instituted acolytes from standing on the 'predella' or, from generally using this area for purposes of entry and egress. Additionally, the chair and the ambo are elevated yet not the altar. Our lord present on the altar will unfortunately take the lowest position in the 'sanctuary'. Some might question why this is of such concern but, it is and I think it is reasonable to feel this way. The only blessing of what I perceive as shortcomings is what others mentioned - the ease with which someone could undo these changes.
ByzRC, I believe your right, it you look closely to the blow up image you can see the tops of the old pews beyond the sanctuaryThe Sister of the Precious Blood did the same thing at their motherhouse up here at the Shrine of the Holy Relics at Maria Stein, Ohio where I livegot rid of the pews, now chairs,( with kneelers!!!)Alter is a tiny square table on the main floor, organist right beside it and the ambo 3 foot away, it is more "intimate" as the sisters say, the Sanctuary is now full of chairs to make it a "chapel of reservation" as you call it. At least the chairs all still face to the fronthttp://www.mariasteinshrine.org/chapels-relics/adoration-chapelthankfully they didn't destroy the relic chapelhttp://www.mariasteinshrine.org/relics
Anon @ 9:39...what in the Hell are you talking about?
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