Tuesday, December 20, 2016

NO MATTER WHAT SIDE ONE TAKES, THIS ISN't GOOD AND AUTHENTIC HUMILITY IS NEEDED FROM THE POPE ON DOWN WHICH SADLY HAS NOT BEEN MODELED BY ANYONE IN THIS SAD AFFAIR


ROME
The Times (UK)
Philip Willan, Rome
December 19 2016

The Pope is facing an unprecedented smear campaign designed to undermine his three-year pontificate. It has been orchestrated by cardinals angry about his sympathy for homosexuals and divorcees.

The campaign, spearheaded by conservative forces within the Vatican, amounts to “a subterranean civil war” within the church, Marco Politi, an expert on the Holy See, said. He added that the smear campaign included books, articles and letters contesting, in particular, the Pope’s teaching that divorced and remarried Catholics can “in certain cases” be allowed to take communion.

Mr Politi said that the criticisms of the Pope from within the Vatican constituted a direct and personal attack that was unprecedented in modern times. He cited the pontiff’s progressive reforms, including his advocacy of a more merciful approach to marital breakdown.

In an article published by Il Fatto Quotidiano newspaper to mark the Pope’s 80th birthday on Saturday, Mr Politi said: “It’s a systematic campaign of delegitimisation, which questions the very authority of the pontiff and the rightness of his guidance.”

Mr Politi, a veteran observer of Vatican affairs and author of the book Pope Francis among the Wolves, said that the ideological battle resembled the one fought over the modernising reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s.

While Vatican factions have traditionally fought among themselves, they still accepted the role of the Pope as referee, he said. “It’s absolutely new that the attacks should be levelled directly at the Pope now.”

Last month four cardinals, including the conservative American Raymond Burke, wrote to the Pope asking him to clarify his guidance on this point, which was published in a footnote to Amoris Laetitia (The Joy of Love), a teaching document issued last April.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Authentic humility is needed from the pope". That will never happen.

The whole Communion for adulterers is ridiculous anyway. Has Francis actually visited a Catholic parish Mass on a Sunday.....every single person, EVERY person will be going to communion in their shorts and tee shirts with their hands held out, people who haven't seen the inside of a confessional in decades. The ordinary everyday typical modern day Catholic has no idea about sin, let alone the difference between mortal and venial sin. They don't believe in the Real Precense and don't know what the Mass truly is. They are basically sloppy, uneducated Protestants.

The big difference is that Protestants care about their commitment to Christ and their faith. They care enough to get dressed as nice as possible for Sunday worship, they care enough to have beautiful music, they care enough to study and actually give a sermon that took some thought and preparation. They actually pray. They don't have the fullness of truth or valid sacraments but they put Catholics to shame.

Catholics will run you over in the parking lot when Mass is finished. A Catholic could go to the same church their entire life and not know the name of anyone else in the parish. Protestant ministers know their parishioners, Catholic priests enlist lay people to go and visit the sick because they couldn't be bothered.

Here is the perfect example of the difference between a Protestant minister and a modern Catholic priest. Someone is in the hospital, the minister will be there, will actually know the person, will sit and not only pray but talk to the person and their family. The priest, if, and that's a big IF, if you can get them to the hospital, they are usually annoyed that their time to watch The Golden Girls was interrupted. They will hastily give the Annointing of the Sick, cutting out as much as possible, will not even know the sick persons name, or care, will not sit with them and will get out of the sick room as fast as possible. That's the truth and an honest Catholic will admit it.

The liturgy collapsed, Catholitcity is long gone, convents are empty, Catholic Universities teach heresy without fear of correction and know we have a pope who is trying to officially approve sacraligeous communions and confessions and basically allow second "marriages". That IS what he is doing and it doesn't take a rocket science to see it. He will not even answer honest questions by the cardinals because if he answered honestly he would be shown to be the heretic that he is and everybody knows it. But we deserve this humiliation and cross because as a Church we have been unfaithful for decades. Our Lady is our only hope and fidelity to Christ and the teachings of the Church. It does not rest on the whims of a liberal bishop who is in Rome.

Jusadbellum said...

Calling something "progressive" doesn't automatically make it actually "progress" towards some ideal and away from some imperfect status quo.

Henry said...

This article has it backwards. The authors thinks those defending the pope from misinterpretation are attackers, while those he thinks are defenders actually are attempting to distance the pope from the faith:

http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/images/GREAT_CARTOON.jpg

TJM said...

Henry,

The Cartoon is right on the money, but apostate Catholics won't see it that way. Merry Christmas

Mark Thomas said...

Anonymous, December 20, 2016 at 7:58 AM said..."The whole Communion for adulterers is ridiculous anyway. Has Francis actually visited a Catholic parish Mass on a Sunday.....every single person, EVERY person will be going to communion in their shorts and tee shirts with their hands held out, people who haven't seen the inside of a confessional in decades."

-- I believe that your description of a "typical" (Novus Ordo) Mass is legitimate.

===========================================

Anonymous said..." The big difference is that Protestants care about their commitment to Christ and their faith. They care enough to get dressed as nice as possible for Sunday worship, they care enough to have beautiful music, they care enough to study and actually give a sermon that took some thought and preparation. They actually pray. They don't have the fullness of truth or valid sacraments but they put Catholics to shame."

-- In regard to Protestants and their church attire. I have seen Protestants dress nicely as they've enter their churches to worship God. I have seen, for example, Episcopalians at "liberal" Episcopal parishes dress casually as they entered their churches to worship God.

I have seen protestants who worship at strip shopping center "churches" dress akin to many Catholics at Mass...that is, casually and even in "beach" attire.
======================================================

Anonymous said..."Catholics will run you over in the parking lot when Mass is finished. A Catholic could go to the same church their entire life and not know the name of anyone else in the parish."

-- In my area, where I'm familiar with five parishes, I would guess that as soon as they've received Holy Communion, about 25 percent of a given congregation will bolt immediately to the parking lot.

During the past year in my area, I have heard three priests address during various Masses the issue of their congregations leaving Mass early. Each congregation in question ignored the call from their priests to remain for the entire Mass.
============================================================================

Anonymous said..."Here is the perfect example of the difference between a Protestant minister and a modern Catholic priest. Someone is in the hospital, the minister will be there, will actually know the person, will sit and not only pray but talk to the person and their family. The priest, if, and that's a big IF, if you can get them to the hospital, they are usually annoyed that their time to watch The Golden Girls was interrupted."

-- A Catholic friend of mine, my brother in Jesus Christ, is in the hospital. This morning, I contacted his parish to request that a priest visit him friend in the hospital. Within the hour, a priest arrived and administered to my friend the Anointing of the Sick.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Anonymous said..." The big difference is that Protestants care about their commitment to Christ and their faith. They care enough to get dressed as nice as possible for Sunday worship, they care enough to have beautiful music, they care enough to study and actually give a sermon that took some thought and preparation. They actually pray. They don't have the fullness of truth or valid sacraments but they put Catholics to shame."

-- Some Protestants care about their faith. Some don't care about their faith. I have observed many Protestants on Sundays dressed nicely as they attend services. I have observed Protestants dressed casually as they attended religious services.

I have heard lousy music flow from Protestant congregations.

In regard to Protestant sermons...I have heard Protestant sermons that likely had taken "some thought and preparation," but were filled with heresies.

What good, is a "thoughtful" Protestant sermon that "proves," for example, that the Blessed Virgin Mary was a sinful woman who, with Saint Joseph, had conceived children?

What good is a "thoughtful" Protestant sermon that "proves" that the Catholic Church is evil?

What good is a "thoughtful" Protestant sermon that assures us that artificial birth control, abortion, and same-sex "marriages" are acceptable to God?

Pax.

Mark Thomas said...

The "smear campaign" against His Holiness Pope Francis began the second that Cardinal Bergoglio was announced as our Pope. That is, the Catholic right-wing launched vicious attacks against Pope Francis the second that he appeared on the balcony to greet the Faithful who had gathered at Rome.

-- "Mr Politi said that the criticisms of the Pope from within the Vatican constituted a direct and personal attack that was unprecedented in modern times."

In 1968 A.D., following the release of Humanae Vitae, Pope Blessed Paul VI was undermined from within in far more dramatic fashion than anything that Pope Francis has experienced.

We also have the example of Archbishop Lefebvre, although not a Cardinal, leading vicious attacks against Popes Blessed Paul VI and Saint John Paul II. While not a Cardinal, Archbishop Lefebvre was most definitely a powerful force within the Church. His approach to Rome had grown so extreme that he incurred excommunication.

Of course, various right-wingers then and today who attached uncritically to he and his message positioned Archbishop Lefebvre as man who never, ever, ever, ever made a mistake.

Everything that he did was holy and unassailable...he was on God's side, while Popes Blessed Paul VI and Saint John Paul II were big, bad heretics.

Thanks to the up-to-the-second Internet and the rise of the blogosphere, attacks against Pope Francis appear worse than anything that a Pope has experienced. But the right-wing attacks against our Popes, at least dating to Saint John XXIII, have been vicious.

The right-wing hate to the extent that they hated Popes Saint John XXIII, Blessed Paul VI, Saint John Paul II...Benedict XVI received his share of right-wing hatred (particularly as the result of his having resigned).

Fortunately, the vast majority of Catholics don't share the right-wing's rage against Pope Francis. That is why I'm hopeful — in particular, as the 100th Anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima is upon the horizon — that the "controversy" in regard to the dubia will be resolved peacefully.

The Holy People of God are with Pope Francis, who, in turn, is a man of peace. Therefore with God's help, rather than wage war, Pope Francis will find a way to, if you will, beat the controversy into ploughshares and pruning hooks.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

"*******O God, who in your wondrous providence chose your servant Francis to preside over your Church,******* we give you most hearty thanks for the years of his faithful service, praying that, after having served as the Vicar of your Son on earth, he may enjoy your abundant blessing in this life and, at life’s end, be received by your Son into eternal glory. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Mark Thomas said...

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/5292/cardinal_burke_no_i_am_not_saying_that_pope_francis_is_in_heresy.aspx

-- Cardinal Burke: "No, I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy."

December 19, 2016

"In an interview with CWR, Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke discusses the current controversy over "Amoris Laetitia' and the questions he submitted with three other bishops to Pope Francis."

CWR: Some critics say you are implicitly accusing the Pope of heresy.

Cardinal Burke: No, that's not what we have implied at all. We’re not accusing him of heresy, but just asking him to answer these questions for us as the Supreme Pastor of the Church.
================================================================

CWR: Some consider you to be an enemy of Pope Francis. How do you see yourself in relation to him?

Cardinal Burke: I am a Cardinal of the Church, and one of the Pope’s principal co-workers. I have absolute respect for the Petrine office. I am not the enemy of the Pope.
=================================================================

CWR: Just to clarify again, are you saying that Pope Francis is in heresy or is close to it?

Cardinal Burke: No, I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy. I have never said that.

*********** Neither have I stated that he is close to being in heresy. ************
==================================================================

Raymond Cardinal Burke's above responses have dealt a major blow to the right-wing narrative that the Four Cardinals determined that His Holiness Pope Francis had fallen into heresy.

The right-wing narrative that via the dubia, the Four Cardinals had trapped Pope Francis in his supposed "heresy" has been shattered.

The notion that the dubia had painted Pope Francis into a corner — that is, that Pope Francis must answer the questions or else face the charge of heresy from the Four Cardinals — has just been destroyed.

The right-wing will not receive that which they had been convinced was on the way...Cardinal Burke (the Four Cardinals) declaring Pope Francis a "heretic."

As Cardinal Burke said via the Catholic World Report interview: "I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy. I have never said that."

****** "Neither have I stated that he is close to being in heresy." *******

Pax.

Mark Thomas

DJR said...

Cardinal Burke makes public statement that, if pope embraces heresy, he automatically loses his office.

CWR: Some people are saying that the pope could separate himself from communion with the Church. Can the pope legitimately be declared in schism or heresy?

Cardinal Burke: If a Pope would formally profess heresy he would cease, by that act, to be the Pope. It’s automatic. And so, that could happen.

From Catholic World Report.

CWR: Some people are saying that the pope could separate himself from communion with the Church. Can the pope legitimately be declared in schism or heresy?

Cardinal Burke: If a Pope would formally profess heresy he would cease, by that act, to be the Pope. It’s automatic. And so, that could happen.

CWR: That could happen.

Cardinal Burke: Yes.

CWR: That’s a scary thought.

Cardinal Burke: It is a scary thought, and I hope we won’t be witnessing that at any time soon.

____

CWR: Back to this question about the Pope committing heresy. What happens then, if the Pope commits heresy and is no longer Pope? Is there a new conclave? Who's in charge of the Church? Or do we just not even want to go there to start figuring that stuff out?

Cardinal Burke: There is already in place the discipline to be followed when the Pope ceases from his office, even as happened when Pope Benedict XVI abdicated his office. The Church continued to be governed in the interim between the effective date of his abdication and the inauguration of the papal ministry of Pope Francis.

CWR: Who is competent to declare him to be in heresy?

Cardinal Burke: It would have to be members of the College of Cardinals.

CWR: Just to clarify again, are you saying that Pope Francis is in heresy or is close to it?

Cardinal Burke: No, I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy. I have never said that. Neither have I stated that he is close to being in heresy.

CWR: Doesn't the Holy Spirit protect us from such a danger?

Cardinal Burke: The Holy Spirit inhabits the Church. The Holy Spirit is always watching over, inspiring and strengthening the Church. But the members of the Church and, in a pre-eminent way, the hierarchy must cooperate with the promptings of the Holy Spirit. It is one thing for the Holy Spirit to be present with us, but it is another thing for us to be obedient to the Holy Spirit.



DJR said...

Mark Thomas said... The right-wing will not receive that which they had been convinced was on the way...Cardinal Burke (the Four Cardinals) declaring Pope Francis a "heretic."

As Cardinal Burke said via the Catholic World Report interview: "I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy. I have never said that."

****** "Neither have I stated that he is close to being in heresy." *******


____


Mark, with all due respect, you seem completely oblivious to life in general.

The fact that Cardinal Burke has "never said" that Pope Francis is in heresy and that he "is not saying that" NOW... is irrelevant to whether he will say it in the future.

You yourself have pointed out many, many times that the cardinal has reversed positions regarding Amoris Laetitia.

If the pope does/says something that makes these cardinals change their minds, as Cardinal Burke obviously has already done, there is no reason to think they will not use the "H" word regarding the pope if that's what they believe in the future.

Your viewpoint is extremely myopic.

The so-called "right wing narrative" hasn't been "shattered" in the least.

What's going to be "shattered" is the comfort zones of complacent Catholics, as this crisis develops into a general apostasy on a magnitude much greater than the Arian crisis.

This is not going to go away. It is Our Lord's way of finally renewing the Church and pruning the rotten fruits, beginning with the very summit of the Church.

Anonymous said...

Bee here:

Mark Thomas responded to Anonymous, December 20, 2016 at 7:58 AM saying, "During the past year in my area, I have heard three priests address during various Masses the issue of their congregations leaving Mass early. Each congregation in question ignored the call from their priests to remain for the entire Mass."

Once a priest addressed the issue of people leaving Mass after communion, saying, "Well, we all know who left the Last Supper before everyone else...." :-)

God bless.
Bee

Mark Thomas said...

Sorry, DJR, but the right-wing narrative in question has been shattered. Right-wingers were thrilled beyond belief when news of the dubia had surfaced. Right-wingers insisted that the dubia had signaled the beginning of the end to Pope Francis' Pontificate.

Pope Francis had been called out as a heretic. Amoris Laetitia had been exposed as being heretical. The Four Cardinals, via the dubia, had backed Pope Francis into a corner.

DJR, here are examples from the past month of the right-wing narrative that pretended that thanks to the Four Cardinals/dubia, Pope Francis was finished...he had been exposed as a "heretic."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 21, 2016 A.D., by The Remnant

Il Boom: Cardinal Dubia and Vatican Schism

http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2888-il-boom-cardinal-dubia-and-roman-schism

The Remnant article insisted that this is the beginning of the end to Pope Francis...on top of that, it's the end of the Vatican II Era as, supposedly, the Four Cardinals had drawn the battle lines...one either sides with the Four Cardinals or sides with "heretical" Vatican II/Novus Ordoism

From Hilary White's article in question:

"I don’t know anyone who isn’t either privately or publicly suggesting that this is the “beginning of the end” of the Bergoglian pontificate, that we have all known has been heading straight for exactly this precipice. And now, after fifty years of struggle in our quiet civil war, the cliff is finally in sight."
--------------------------------------------------------------------

November 15, 2016 A.D., from Steve Skojec at One Peter 5:

http://www.onepeterfive.com/cardinal-burkes-groundbreaking-interview-signals-official-papal-resistance/

"I submit to you that these statements are indicative of something momentous. This could well be the prelude to something unprecedented: the challenging of a sitting pope for the crime of manifest, obdurate heresy."
---------------------------------------------------------

November 16, 2016 A.D. Novus Ordo Watch declared that the dubia signaled that Pope Francis would be declared a heretic.

http://novusordowatch.org/2016/11/cardinal-burke-francis-formal-act-of-correction/

"This latest interview contains an explosive open threat made by Mr. Burke, and in this sense it represents a new stage in internal Novus Ordo opposition to Francis:

"They know full well that there is nothing to clarify: Francis has been pushing serious errors, errors that even a number of Novus Ordo scholars and academics have already truthfully labeled as “heretical”.

"According to Catholic teaching, a Pope cannot be a heretic and still be Pope, and Mr. Burke knows that. Therefore, the only logical conclusion for Burke to embrace after a “formal correction” would be to recognize that Francis is not the Pope, and this would mark the beginning of a formal schism within the Modernist Church."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 16, 2016 A.D., right-wing blogger Mundabor declared that the Four Cardinals had painted His Holiness Pope Francis into a corner.

https://mundabor.wordpress.com/2016/11/16/

"The Evil Clown has four choices:

•do nothing (my pint is on this)

•answer “no” and refute heresy

•answer “yes” and confirm heresy

•answer with some Franciswaffle

"Now the kitten have meowed. Consequently, anything but a clear refutation of the heresies contained in Amoris Laetitia must lead to an official proclamation of the heresy of both the document and the Pope."

That is just the tip of the iceberg as far as references to the right-wing narrative in question. That narrative has been destroyed as Cardinal Burke declared that Pope Francis is not even "close to being in heresy."

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

DJR said..."Your viewpoint is extremely myopic. The so-called "right wing narrative" hasn't been "shattered" in the least. This is not going to go away."

The right-wing narrative has been shattered.

Cardinal Burke's declaration that His Holiness Pope Francis in not even "close to being in heresy," has smashed the right-wing fantasy that had Cardinal Burke (the Four Cardinals) sticking it to Pope Francis.

The right-wing fantasy that had Cardinal Burke having trapped and exposed Pope Francis as a heretic is finished.

Cardinal Burke's comments in question have made it clear that to the chagrin of right-wing Catholics who hate Pope Francis, Cardinal Burke will not denounce Pope Francis as a heretic. Such a notion is not on the radar screen.

All the right-wing fantasy talk about the dubia having brought to the end Pope Francis' Pontificate has been exposed as utter nonsense. Cardinal Burke's comments have revealed the following: The supposed challenge to Pope Francis/Amoris Laetitia always lacked fangs and claws.

The right-wing pipe-dream even had the College of Cardinals convoking a conclave to elect a Pope to replace "heretical" Pope Francis.

Thanks to Cardinal Burke's comments, the right-wing has lost the person whom they believed had represented their cause. That is, the right-wing cause to declare Pope Francis and Amoris Latitia heretical, then replace Pope Francis with a "real" Pope.

Cardinal Burke: "No, I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy. I have never said that. Neither have I stated that he is close to being in heresy."

Goodbye, right-wing narrative.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

DJR said..."Mark, with all due respect, you seem completely oblivious to life in general. Your viewpoint is extremely myopic."

Uh-huh.

The myopic folks are those right-wing Catholics who insisted that the dubia had signaled the beginning of the end to Pope Francis' Pontificate. The myopic ones are right-wingers who declared that the dubia had branded Pope Francis a "heretic."

The folks who are myopic are those among the right-wing who declared that thanks to the dubia, the Four Cardinals had initiated the process to depose Pope Francis, then elect a Pope to replace His Holiness Pope Francis.

Via Cardinal Burke's declaration that he does not claim that Pope Francis is even "close to being in heresy," the right-wing myopic folks in question have just lost their imagined general in their fantasy war against "heretical" Pope Francis.

Pax.

Mark Thomas


"I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy. I have never said that. Neither have I stated that he is close to being in heresy."

— Raymond Cardinal Burke

Mark Thomas said...

Deo gratias that Cardinal Burke has — not that it was his desire — rendered it impossible for certain Catholics to position him as the leader among Churchmen who had led the charge to declare Pope Francis/Amoris Laetitia "heretical."

Cardinal Burke declared that Pope Francis is not even "close to being in heresy."

A rational debate within the Church in regard to Amoris Laetitia is fine. What wasn't fine was that certain Catholics insisted that Cardinal Burke/dubia/Four Cardinals had initiated the process to denounce officially Pope Francis as heretical.

From there, the narrative among certain Catholics was that the College of Cardinals would meet to oust Pope Francis officially, then elect a "true" Pope.

That narrative had gained traction most definitely when certain Catholics interpreted in harsh fashion Cardinal Burke's declaration that the Four Cardinals would "correct" Pope Francis should His Holiness not respond to the dubia.

The Catholics in question had employed Cardinal Burke's words to insist that a "showdown" between Pope Francis and the Four Cardinals was on the horizon. The showdown would result in the end to Pope Francis' "heretical" Pontificate.

But Cardinal Burke has made it clear that he doesn't believe that Pope Francis has even come close to having fallen into heresy.

Why didn't Cardinal Burke calm the waters weeks ago when he was touted as the leader of the movement to end Pope Francis' "heretical" Pontificate. Was he unaware that certain Catholics had positioned him as such?

Anyway, the narrative that Cardinal Burke would lead the way to declare Pope Francis heretical has been smashed into a million pieces.

I believed that we were not on the path to the horrific showdown in question. I believed that the Blessed Virgin Mary would calm hearts and minds in regard to the "showdown." I believe that that has occurred.

Thank you, Cardinal Burke, for having made it clear that you do not believe that our Holy Father Pope Francis is even "close to being in heresy."

Blessed are the peacemakers.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Bee, that an interesting point that you've made. I have read that the issue in question is widespread, at least within the Church in the United States. It is a serious issue at parishes in my area.

I wonder whether (and how) parishes where the problem existed persuaded worshipers to remain for the entire Mass?

Pax.

Mark Thomas