But with that said and in light of the execution of French satirists in Paris who are now being called journalists by the liberal press, just where does freedom of speech that could and does incite riots and the fringe to implement death dealing retribution find its limits? Are their limits to freedom of speech and of the press?
We know that in the USA we cannot use freedom of speech to provoke violence or stampedes, such as shouting fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire or using hate speech against homosexuals in particular, although if it is at a religion, Catholicism primary among it, it is okay, the press gives it a pass.
So, where was the liberal press when Pope Benedict gave his stunning, very accurate, sober and intelligent speech about the dangers of Islamic fundamentalists that created riots and hate and even death is some parts of the Islamic world? Who was condemned by the liberal press in and outside of the Church, the extremists or Pope Benedict. Who was forced to make an apology for his freedom of speech?
The satirists who were murdered, executed made a game of offending people of religion no matter what religion and in fact incited people on the fringe, the fundamentalists. Why didn't the liberal press treat these so-called journalists the same way as they treated Pope Benedict and his speech? And why now are they extolling the kind of hate language that provokes political and religious radicals to do evil, despicable things?
Would the liberal media applaud the journalists and cartoonists of the 19th century that vilified the Irish? Or the Germans that vilified the Jews in satire too?
There is a fine line between freedom of speech and inciting riots, violence, death and destruction.
32 comments:
I agree, Father, I think this is a murderous act that is deplorable but I can't help but think that in this instance it was a case of journalists playing with fire. To write about the violence that is a mark of Islam is one thing, and I don't think that any religion or belief should be the target of satire, lampoon or that free speech should be used to insult others.
Nonetheless, nothing can justify evil acts such as this and I pray for the souls of those who were murdered and that the perpetrators will turn away from evil.
Jan
The trouble we face in the US is that ANY disagreement with the LGBTQ agenda is called "hate".
Pointing out the CDC's latest statistics and opining that perhaps men ages 19-25 ought to refrain from sexual activity for their own health is considered ipso facto "to hate" gay people.
You know, like how when you encourage people to stop smoking tobacco or not start, it's all really about you harboring murderous hatred for them? Exactly.
Instead of pushing back at the irrationality (which is one of the proofs for the instability and irrationality of the condition that is same sex attraction), we silence ourselves out of fear of what "they" may do to us (which is considerable: the gay mafia can get you fired from your day job.)
See, the argument here is that gay marriage is a civil right. If it's a civil right, then no religion can deny it. If no religion can deny a person their civil rights, that religion has no rights to the degree they promote 'hate' and hate is defined as anything said or done which annoys or distresses a gay person.
Now, abortion is also a civil right. So you see why all religions MUST pay for abortions as a price of being citizens.
But let's not be silly. Keeping and bearing firearms is also an enumerated civil right...but we aren't asking others to subsidize our purchase of guns and ammo. Free speech (was) a civil right but that never meant others had to subsidize it.
But see how this works: anything that advances the cause of the socialist or sexual revolution is good and must be subsidized and supported. Anything that stands in their way must be shouted down, stopped, or assaulted in the name of "progress".
At no time must anyone be allowed to merely beg to differ or question what this 'progress' points towards or point out the downsides and depravity of progress.
There is only one way to stop the madness and that is frontal assault against political correct memes and the terrorists who use them. Challenge them on the merits. To public debates, to public duels.
A woman in Colorado burned a Koran on youtube and posted her address and directions from the airport to her front door. But she also showed off her shot gun and AR-15 (pink) that she would use on any would-be terrorist.
None came.
You don't just provoke the savages, you must be prepared (and they must know you are prepared) to effectively stop them in their tracks if they act uncivilly towards you.
Anything else is just going to make matters worse as it gives them the sense that they are winning.
Pop the bubble of their claims to intellectual and moral superiority. Pop the bubble of their claims of being the inevitable wave of the future. Neither the Islamic fascists nor the gay fascists have much of a future.
We can either stop them both or convert them both. Our faith is stronger than their hate. Our faith and the Lord's power is stronger than their vices and the lusts that have ensnared them as victims of their own ravings.
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition…
And we'll all stay free." (popular WW II song that we should revive)
An absolute minority cows the majority into silence and self-censorship out of fear and a sense that capitulation is prudence.
The majority dare not challenge the minority out of well founded fear of being attacked and so differentiating between "radicals" and captives doesn't much help the next round of victims. If the captives won't raise a finger to help them, it's as though they're radicals too if only tacitly.
This is a universal human experience which is why Mafias and drug cartels carry such outsized challenges for host cultures. It also explains our own gay-subculture.
The Macon brouhaha over the gay teacher came and went. But it was never resolved was it?
School and diocese made the bare minimum explanation in terse, bare sentences. The goal was to drop the hot potato as quickly as possible while the gay side instantly mobilized 60 protesters and are still working to network and promote their world view as "scientific" and thus, having the moral high ground against an irrational and thus bigoted religion that ought not have any civil right to disagree.
On the Catholic side...crickets with no one daring to stand up for the Catholic view of sexuality and salvation and on the secular side, plenty of agitation and mobilization and networking to advance their cultural aggression and legal hegemony.
But at all times, the soul and health of the poor teacher is ignored. The souls and health of all those ensnared in the gay sub-culture, a culture of death, are ignored as we are terrified of their wrath, of their emotions and the untoward, hostile actions and mischief they may resort to in furtherance of their claim to 'equality' (because nothing says "I'm equal" quite like getting special treatment and double standards applied such that only what insults one group is taken as a 'hate' crime while any aggressor towards another group is a-OK).
Where are the men? Where are the adults?
The so-called "progressive" side of our culture is so patently NOT on the intellectual or moral high ground it's breathtaking to behold them acting as though it's a given, beyond discussion.
Do we think we do them a favor by ignoring them? Or do our children a favor by refusing to address their claims and challenges? By being silent in the face of serious accusations and charges?
Standing up to such aggressive minorities does involve real risk and cost to life and limb. It will involve real stress and sacrifice. But how else can we save their souls and stop the madness from spreading to more innocents by our tacit silence?
Neither radical Islam nor the gay mafia has the manpower or the firepower to actually overthrow Western civilization (although they'll try whether we stop them or not).
So what are we afraid of?
I think "we" are afraid because they are hyper-organized and compact while 'we' are scattered and individuals without the inherent benefit of corporate organization and leadership.
Something to think about.
I think the only way to stop the violence, which is a harsh one, is to stop all Islamic immigration and repatriate all Islamics to their country of origin. It means the innocent suffering with the guilty but this I think is the only way to deal with the problem. That is a better solution than citizens taking up arms themselves, which I think is becoming a very real possibility as atrocities increase. I think America should have stopped immigration immediately following 9/11.
Jan
NO, the better way is to hunt them down and kill them like the mad savages they are.
Father McDonald asks: “Are their [sic] limits to freedom of speech and of the press?”
Yes, of course. Once again: Even if I have a legal/constitutional right to say/do something does not mean it is right for me to say/do it. This is central to the distinction between liberty and license.
Anonymous Jan: Are you referring to ALL immigration or just Muslim immigration?
Gene: Are you referring to ALL Muslims or just radical Islamic extremists?
Anonymous 2, I referred to Islamic immigration. They have declared war on the west and, as such, similar to what happened in the World Wars where immigration from countries we were at war was stopped and people from those countries were interned because of the threat to national security. It meant the innocent suffered for the guilty, but if something like that doesn't happen there is likely to be a break down of law and order. With weapons so freely available in America it is easy to see how vigilante groups could start doing exactly what the Islamics are doing and those communities would not be safe either.
Jan
In December 2001 when we invaded Afghanistan to punish those responsible for 9/11, I opined to my coworkers that this would not be quick, and in all likelihood not be over in my life time. I said this would never be over until war to the hilt between Islam and all other religions, or at least all other Judo-Christian religions, was fought and resolved. I have seen nothing in 13 years to make me alter that opinion. Any nation which tolerates Islam is a nation courting it's own end. And yes, I have actually been to the Middle east, for months not days, and actually dealt with many Muslims, even know some who are not radicals, but I don't care. Islam, as a religion has as many redeeming qualities as Satanism.
Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius ~ Arnaud-Amaury
Anon 2, The Muslim world is doing absolutely nothing to discourage or meaningfully demonstrate that Islam is anything other than a savage religion that was conceived in violence and continues to be a threat to civilized people everywhere. I consider Islam to be an enemy of the Church, the West, and civilization generally. Does that answer your question? Now, go wring your hands and explain to me how peaceful and wonderful all your Muslim buddies are.
It's always better to light candles then curse the darkness.
So our first option ought to be to seek to actively reach Muslim women and children (and every gay person) to introduce them to Jesus Christ, the love the Holy Spirit and the grace to leave that life of oppression and sin and join us in the Church.
To make disciples.
With Muslims we meet in this country I suspect outside of the men (who are terrified of the Muslim terrorists) we stand some chance of making friendly contacts with women and children via Marian devotions, healing, and kindness. Muslim children need to know what decent, self-controlled, gentle MEN are like.
With gays, we're dealing in the main with wounded, hurt souls who are seeking for happiness in all the wrong places. Individuals ought to ALWAYS be befriended, prayed for (and over) and helped to integrate their sexual feelings within a support network of decent, respectful men (or women as the case may be) who show them that love is not quid pro quo.
There is a great ministry called Courage for both individuals struggling with same sex attraction and their families.
Now, if in the process of actively reaching out to individuals in need we happen to run up against the hostile, savage, emotionally stunted men who, in the name of avenging insults will threaten us with bodily harm or threaten our livelihoods (as in the gay situation), the response must be a measured one but a firm one: fire when ready Gridley but remember, this is a two way street.
And then be prepared to put down the savages with overwhelming firepower or overwhelming social media and public debates on the merits of their truth claims.
To wit: with Muslim men who threaten us, we ought to re-read Summa Contra Gentiles and the saints who have experience along these lines. Their truth claims about Allah and Mohammed cannot be proven. There are no miracles, no healing, no exorcisms, no concrete grounds of authority we share that would make us conclude God really did appear to Mohammed. All we have are threats and threats....well, we overwhelmingly outnumber Muslim men (and gay men) in the USA.
With gay men, their entire movement is based on the unproven claim that their condition is healthy (both emotionally and in terms of the results of their sexual practices) and that all their negative repercussions in life is exclusively caused by the feelings of others (i.e. the homophobic hypothesis). In their minds, utopia cannot come until absolutely no one disagrees. But that's ridiculous. It's not disagreement that leads to HIV or cancers or depression or suicidal ideations.
Gene, if you know how, go to YouTube or Spotify and listen to a song by my friend Tom T Hall call "Hang Them All".....
One day "they" will come after you...
Anonymous, I suspect Gene would follow the shoot, shovel, and shut up method with any group of "they" coming to lynch him.
There's a reason why thugs and terrorists hit soft targets: they have reasonable expectations of not being gunned down by armed civilians. In virtually every case of mass casualty attacks, the victims were disarmed by local or regional law, not by their own free choice.
Are you a pistol packin' wacko too Jus?
Gene....."hunt them down and kill them like the mad savages they are".
You say you are an American...a Catholic.
You are a pathetic embarrassment and disgrace to both groups.
Gene:
“The Muslim world is doing absolutely nothing to discourage or meaningfully demonstrate that Islam is anything other than a savage religion that was conceived in violence and continues to be a threat to civilized people everywhere.”
On what do you base this assertion that “[t]he Muslim world is doing nothing to discourage or meaningfully demonstrate. . .”?
Jus...."Better to light candles thAn curse the darkness".
I am an American and a Catholic who understands that the Church and the culture are under attack by ruthless enemies from within and without and that people like Anonymous and Anon 2 and others who continue to defend and make excuses for the enemy are just as dangerous as the terrorists and thugs with guns and bombs. I am glad that there are a lot more people like me out there (at least where I live and work) than there are people like them. But, since even rats will fight when cornered, perhaps Anonymous and Anon 2 will wake up before it is too late.
Yes, Jus, I believe in the shoot, shovel, and shut up approach. Be alert, be suspicious, and shoot straight. Get firearms training…learn to engage multiple targets and get good out to at least 100 yards. Have an escape route and a back up plan. As for the more timid of you, grow a set and get angry.
Gene:
No-one is defending and making excuses for “the enemy” or for “terrorists and thugs with guns and bombs.” You forget -- I had to live with terrorism in Britain in the form of the IRA long before you had to confront terrorism in America. So, please do not lecture me on the evils of terrorism. You are preaching to the choir.
But, if you are going to fight, you need to fight smart and use your brain not just your tough guy macho brawn. That means you have to understand not just the “enemy” but those with whom you can build alliances – military, political, cultural, and spiritual. If you label everyone in the Islamic world as the “enemy” as you do, you run the risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is a dangerous path. Thankfully, you are not in charge.
However, because of past failures to fight smart instead of stupid on the part of those who were in charge, the fight has now become much harder than it needed to be. I hope it isn’t too late to get it right but it might be. If it is, doubtless you will feel vindicated when we “reap the whirlwind.”
P.S. Rats are very intelligent creatures.
PP.S. You have not answered my question at 5:36 p.m.
Fr Ray Blake has a post in which he says, "Je suis no Charlie" and he posts disgusting covers from Charlie Hebdo - looking at the cover depicting the Blessed Trinity I regret to say that these cartoonists appear to have taken on God and paid the price.
http://marymagdalen.blogspot.co.nz/2015/01/je-suis-non-charlie.html
Jan
Anon 2, I hear nothing from the Muzzie world on the news or anywhere else indicating that there is any movement at all to hunt down and stop terrorism. Only tepid little laments and further insistence that Islam is a religion of peace. Pardon me while I projectile vomit.
Kind of a silly discussion. There's a huge difference between being criticized for what you say and being murdered for it. Popes and presidents are expected to stand up and say what they believe is right. If you're criticized, put on your big boy pants. It's part of the job. Otherwise, get out of the kitchen (as Benedict did). To equate criticism with Charlie is repugnant.
"But, if you are going to fight, you need to fight smart and use your brain not just your tough guy macho brawn."
LOL. Good luck convincing Generalissimo Gene of that.
Jan, I agree. I don't have much sympathy with the so-called journalists and cartoonists at Charlie Hebdo - they are anarchists who a hundred years ago would probably have been assassinating people themselves.
You can call them puerile (the French have a tradition of equating superficial puerile attitudes with philosophy, witness those two old pretentious bores, Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone Weil, who held court on the Rive Gauche with all the other pseuds but who would have emptied a room in any real centre of civilization.
The cartoon showing the Holy Trinity which relates to the objection of Cardinal Vingt-Trois to homosexual 'marriage' is so vile that if a Catholic had killed its author I would not have agreed with the murder but would have admitted a number of extenuating circumstances and probably let him off with a caution.
You would not agree with the murder but you would let him off.
That makes no sense.
Gene:
So, now, on this particular point, you are prepared to trust “the news”? Critical thinking time again! This might get you started (in more senses than one =)) First, regarding the attacks in France:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/46-examples-of-muslim-outrage-about-paris-shooting-that-fox-news-cant-seem-to-find/
Now, regarding ISIS:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/08/21/muslim-leaders-have-roundly-denounced-islamic-s/200498
Of course, I expect you will say these are “tepid little laments.” But the moral I draw is: Don’t trust the media (especially FOX News) on this or indeed on anything else.
Anon 2, Well, you have me in check with regard to trusting the media…however, I trust Muslims even less.
*select a cake?* What is this not a robot nonsense.
"A society of sheep will invariably lead to a government of wolves."
RE: Liberals Libs and moderates do not want testicles because they make straddling the fence too uncomfortable. Spines are useful only for holding the body upright long enough to walk to Starbucks or the
latest homosexual rally.
Or, homophonically, just give the masses “panem et circenses” and they won’t notice that some peoples’ are so big they can’t even get up to look over the fence and see what’s on the other side.
Well, panem et circuses we got...
Anon,
No, I'm not packin a pistol. But if I was, I'd not admit it online!
Gene,
We need good men like you to not just be squared away, but to befriend and introduce other good men to the various sciences and arts that will be required to uphold and defend the Constitutional order and the moral order come hell or high water.
You've got yourself squared away. Now get a group of likeminded souls locally squared away. There's a reason our ancestors conquered this continent and it was organization above and beyond individual preparedness. Prep is step one. Cooperative action is step two.
Hardening one's home is do-able immediately but to really be secure from criminals and would-be terrorists we need a local militia/neighborhood watch/community that together can pool resources, watch the homesteads and children while adults are at work, asleep, etc.
The USA used to be a bottom up civilization which happened to have a federal government instead of a bunch of atomized individuals utterly defenseless and helpless unless the feds rolled in with their MRAPS.
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