UPDATED: THE HOLY FATHER'S HOMILY MUST BE READ THROUGH THE LENS OF POPE BENEDICT AND THE BRILLIANT TALK HE GAVE PRIOR TO HIS RETIREMENT FROM THE CHAIR OF PETER WHICH YOU CAN READ IN ITS BRILLIANT ENTIRETY HERE! THE LAST PARAGRAPH WAS:
"And we know that this Council of the media was accessible to all. So, dominant, more efficient, this Council created many calamities, so many problems, so much misery, in reality: seminaries closed, convents closed liturgy trivialized ... and the true Council has struggled to materialize, to be realized: the virtual Council was stronger than the real Council. But the real strength of the Council was present and slowly it has emerged and is becoming the real power which is also true reform, true renewal of the Church. It seems to me that 50 years after the Council, we see how this Virtual Council is breaking down, getting lost and the true Council is emerging with all its spiritual strength. And it is our task, in this Year of Faith, starting from this Year of Faith, to work so that the true Council with the power of the Holy Spirit is realized and Church is really renewed. We hope that the Lord will help us. I, retired in prayer, will always be with you, and together we will move ahead with the Lord in certainty. The Lord is victorious. Thank you."
[end]
The following is a synopsis of Pope Francis daily homily for Tuesday, April 16th. His homilies give us insights into his papal magisterium and where he is leading us and we pray under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. My comments at the end.
Pope: 2nd Vatican Council, work of Holy Spirit but some want to turn back the clock.
Pope Francis dedicated Tuesday's mass to Benedict XVI 16th who turned 86 on this date. “May the Love be with him, comfort him and gave him much consolation,” he said.
Pope Francis’ homily at the mass was centered on the theme of the Holy Spirit and our resistance to it. It took its inspiration from the first reading of the day which was the story of the martyrdom of St. Stephen who described his accusers as stubborn people who were always resisting the Holy Spirit.
Put frankly, the Pope continued, “the Holy Spirit upsets us because it moves us, it makes us walk, it pushes the Church forward.” He said that we wish “to calm down the Holy Spirit, we want to tame it and this is wrong.” Pope Francis said “that’s because the Holy Spirit is the strength of God, it’s what gives us the strength to go forward” but many find this upsetting and prefer the comfort of the familiar.
Nowadays, he went on, “everybody seems happy about the presence of the Holy Spirit but it’s not really the case and there is still that temptation to resist it.” The Pope said one example of this resistance was the Second Vatican council which he called “a beautiful work of the Holy Spirit.” But 50 years later, “have we done everything the Holy Spirit was asking us to do during the Council,” he asked. The answer is “No,” said Pope Francis. “We celebrate this anniversary, we put up a monument but we don’t want it to upset us. We don’t want to change and what’s more there are those who wish to turn the clock back.” This, he went on, “is called stubbornness and wanting to tame the Holy Spirit.”
The Pope said the same thing happens in our personal life. “The Spirit pushes us to take a more evangelical path but we resist this.” He concluded his homily by urging those present not to resist the pull of the Holy Spirit. “Submit to the Holy Spirit,” he said, “which comes from within us and makes go forward along the path of holiness.”
MY COMMENTS: There are many ways to turn to clock back but none of them are going to be successful for individuals or for the Church.
This is a simple daily homily by Pope Francis and the Mass is dedicated to Pope Benedict on his 86th birthday today. God bless him. I don't think the Pope would then give a homily that would imply rebuking his living predecessor on his 86th birthday or repudiating him either. So we have to keep the homily in context.
Do we want to go back to the early Church before the accretions of time came in and in the minds of many who want to go back just to the early Fathers is where the Church should be today? There are progressives in the Church who like the retro Church of the Acts of Apostles and of the Church Fathers, what some refer to as "resourcement."
Do we want to go back to the time when the Church and the State were one? We know how corrupting this was for the papacy, other bishops and the Church as a whole. We see this corruption in the Anglican religion of the United Kingdom and we see it in Islam when it becomes melded to the state too.
Do we want to go back to the time of the Reformation?
Do we want to go back to the time of Vatican I?
Do we want to go back to the 1950's?
Do we want to go back to the "headiness" of the Vatican II period and the corrupt interpretation of it in the 1960's and 70's?
No we must move forward and interpret the Church in continuity with what has preceded as Pope Benedict did and now Pope Francis.
Pope Benedict was calling us to move forward in continuity. He wasn't calling us to go back to the time before the Second Vatican Council. He wasn't going to make the Extraordinary Form of the Mass the Ordinary Form of the Mass. He was quite clear about that and he never celebrated the older form of the Mass as the pope at least in public.
Pope Benedict was calling us to a new way that had not be heard of in 50 years, reform or renewal in continuity. That is not going backwards and Pope Benedict's vision of moving forward as quite disruptive to those who thought we could remain in the 1970's prior to Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict was disruptive to those who think we can return to the 1950's prior the Pope John XXIII.
POPE BENEDICT WAS CALLING US AWAY FROM THE VIRTUAL COUNCIL AND TO THE TRUE COUNCIL! WE CAN'T TURN THE CLOCK BACK TO THE VIRTUAL COUNCIL!
We can't turn to clock now back to Pope Benedict, there is a new successor to Saint Peter on the block now and he's Pope Francis.
He's calling us to evangelize and doing so he is washing the feet of Catholics and people of other religion and those of no religion and he is washing the feet of men and women. I wouldn't call that circling the wagons but reaching out and making people ponder the Catholic faith. It is an invitation to Christ and in a not so very subtle way. He is proclaiming the truths of Christ to the world.
The reform of the clergy, religious and the laity is to equip us to bring our Catholic faith to the world whether or not the world wants us to. But we can't force people into the Church and we can't make them stay either. Freedom must be respected. But we won't always be respected and many martyrs may come out of Pope Francis forward way of looking and being Church.
24 comments:
Going back is not possible. However, let us not make the mistake of thinking that the EF is moving back. The Second Vatican Council did not call for the Novus Ordo of 1970. What we had in 1965 was even too far by 1967 with the virtual elimination of Latin and the elimination of the Propers with Musicam Sacram.
I don't know what our Holy Father means, he needs to be specific.
By his fruits you shall know him!
And the fruit is not ripe at this stage
It is not a matter of turning the clock back, it is getting back to the true teaching of the Church, if this is turning back the clock to some then so be it, because many souls have been lost because of the last 50 years of confusion and treachery. Read the book, Peter Lovest Thou Me, by Abbe le Roux, one will get a shocking reality check on especially the pontificate of JPII and the harm it has done the Church
Going back would be easier than fixing all that needs to be fixed, but alas, is not an option.
Instead, we must pray for our priests and bishops, as well as for Pope Francis.
I think it is not yet possible to form any rational opinion of Pope Francis. As Stephen said, "by his fruits you shall know him", and those fruits are just now budding.
Liturgically there really hasn't been the flowering that was hoped for. It seems that, largely, people don't have any deeper of an understanding of liturgy than they did (in what I read in accounts) before VII. VII was used as a scapegoat to bastardize, slobbize, and banalize liturgy.
I contend that really, so far, the only truly, absolutely positive things that have happened in the last 50 years that are a direct result of VII are those religious congregations that have GENUINELY reformed themselves (I think of the Franciscans For Life) to do work closer to what their Founder(s) intended, and the proliferation of generally good lay ecclesial movements.
Other than those two bits, I don't see much.
We cannot turn back the clock, but we can return to proper doctrinal, and liturgical theology.
Father, you are really working overtime to "spin" this your way. Pope Francis laid it out in the open. We cannot, we will not turn back the clock. That was clearly a backhanded slap at Pope Benedict, right after wishing him a Happy Birthday.
The future is coming. What you are hoping for, wishing for, spinning Pope Francis' words to be, is not the future. You want to know what is in store for the future, you ask Pater Ignotius, aka, Fr Kavanaugh. He knows what's in the future. He and priests like him are the future. Pope Francis will clear the way so that Fr Kavanaugh and priests like him will rise to leadership positions, and increase in numbers, both as parish priests and Bishops and Cardinals. The Church will not go back, because Almighty God has decreed by the election of Pope Francis through the College of Cardinals who symbolically rejected Pope Benedict by electing the total opposite of him, that the Church will move onward, upward and forward, no more a religion of bigotry and hate toward homosexuals and alternate-sexuals. No more a "good old boys" club where nuns who fight for social justice and equality are silenced. No more a church out of touch with its people, with an antiquated liturgy that has has zero relevance to the human beings of today. No more a Church of judgmental zealots who condemn people of sin when they are only following their hearts, being exactly who God created them to be. No more a Church steeped in irrelevant traditions and trappings created in the middle ages when the Church was both a religious and secular government power.
We will be a Church who is open, welcoming and tolerant, who will turn NO ONE away, nor condemn anyone no matter their lifestyles. A Church who willnot control her people, but accept them as they are while challenging them to become better. This is the Church Jesus Christ intended and envisioned, and it will be the future, and it will be very very soon. Glory be to God. Amen.
Father, you are really working overtime to "spin" this your way. Pope Francis laid it out in the open. We cannot, we will not turn back the clock. That was clearly a backhanded slap at Pope Benedict, right after wishing him a Happy Birthday.
The future is coming. What you are hoping for, wishing for, spinning Pope Francis' words to be, is not the future. You want to know what is in store for the future, you ask Pater Ignotius, aka, Fr Kavanaugh. He knows what's in the future. He and priests like him are the future. Pope Francis will clear the way so that Fr Kavanaugh and priests like him will rise to leadership positions, and increase in numbers, both as parish priests and Bishops and Cardinals. The Church will not go back, because Almighty God has decreed by the election of Pope Francis through the College of Cardinals who symbolically rejected Pope Benedict by electing the total opposite of him, that the Church will move onward, upward and forward, no more a religion of bigotry and hate toward homosexuals and alternate-sexuals. No more a "good old boys" club where nuns who fight for social justice and equality are silenced. No more a church out of touch with its people, with an antiquated liturgy that has has zero relevance to the human beings of today. No more a Church of judgmental zealots who condemn people of sin when they are only following their hearts, being exactly who God created them to be. No more a Church steeped in irrelevant traditions and trappings created in the middle ages when the Church was both a religious and secular government power.
We will be a Church who is open, welcoming and tolerant, who will turn NO ONE away, nor condemn anyone no matter their lifestyles. A Church who willnot control her people, but accept them as they are while challenging them to become better. This is the Church Jesus Christ intended and envisioned, and it will be the future, and it will be very very soon. Glory be to God. Amen.
And I thought I was clairvoyant!
We are Church, you are a heretic.
I think clairvoyant is nicer than heretic. I think only a church trial can label someone a heretic that it is the function of the bishops or some committee of them, no?
A trial or bishop certainly have authority for formal declarations; however, it is not uncharitable to call a spade, a spade. Also, in so doing, I cannot annouce an excommunication, but this is along the same lines of a self-excommunication priests and bishops today speak of when they have the courage to speak of excommunication. There is scant caritas or agape in seeking to be nice over seeking to be truthful, no?
We Are Church's comments are so ludicrous, I just assumed this was one of our number posting in an intentionally ridiculous and outlandish manner.
Excuse me, am I lost in a Catholic nursing home?
Who knows what the fuutre brings? - but certainly in a world where almost half of mankind is struggling to find enough food for the day it is not exactly Rocketscience to predict that Pope Francis approach has longterm perspective while the Fr.Z's of this world - folks who seem to worry about the latest Mac's, Ammo and Bugati's plenty - well shall we say are lacking...
And all the read Francis through Benedict monikers of the world will not change that picture - most Catholics do not see selfless pious reverence to the liturgy but some real moral rott shimmering underneath the say this do that red and black.
We Are Church--Although I severely hope you're joking, something inside me fears you're being completely serious. Therefore, I will address what you've written. My response is in bold.
Pope Francis will clear the way so that Fr Kavanaugh and priests like him will rise to leadership positions, and increase in numbers, both as parish priests and Bishops and Cardinals.
And hell will freeze over. Satan will repent, and the prophet Isaiah will rise from the grave and crown himself Antipope Solomon. On a more serious note, you say "clear the way. Short of excommunication, I don't see how that'd be possible. Of course, "clear the way" indicates a use of force, which liberals such as yourself tend to avoid and denounce as "mean."
The Church will not go back, because Almighty God has decreed by the election of Pope Francis through the College of Cardinals who symbolically rejected Pope Benedict by electing the total opposite of him, that the Church will move onward, upward and forward,
Onward, upward, and forward like the Episcopal Church. Almighty God also decreed by election Benedict IX, Alexander VI, John XII, and Urban II (you know, the one who called for the First Crusade). Or do they not count?
no more a religion of bigotry and hate toward homosexuals and alternate-sexuals.
Alternate-sexuals? Like pedophiles? Aside from heterosexuals and homosexuals (which you've already listed), who could you possibly be talking about? Zoophiliacs?
No more a "good old boys" club where nuns who fight for social justice and equality are silenced.
There's no reason to even address this. They won't be silenced, until, of course, someone in the secular government decides they need to be silenced
No more a church out of touch with its people, with an antiquated liturgy that has has zero relevance to the human beings of today.
You've put me on the verge of blasphemy. The only things many "human beings" of today see as relevant are material wealth, sex, and drugs. Maybe we should include more death metal at Mass.
No more a Church of judgmental zealots who condemn people of sin when they are only following their hearts,
Osama bin Laden was following his heart. Hitler and Himmler were following their hearts (oh no! Godwin's Law!) Many evil people follow their hearts, yet you choose to condemn them. Unless you don't condemn them and their actions.
being exactly who God created them to be.
God created Satan, Himmler, Hitler, Stalin, bin Laden, etc.
No more a Church steeped in irrelevant traditions and trappings created in the middle ages when the Church was both a religious and secular government power.
Traditions for which a large of number of martyrs have died. Oh, and I suggest looking up the Divine Liturgy of St. James. It was written during the first century, yet shows many of the trapping you're probably deploring.
We will be a Church who is open, welcoming and tolerant, who will turn NO ONE away, nor condemn anyone no matter their lifestyles.
Ugh. No matter? At all? It'd take an idiot to not know where this idea would lead
A Church who willnot control her people, but accept them as they are while challenging them to become better.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but the Church already does this. Why have a Church at all if everyone does there own thing?
This is the Church Jesus Christ intended and envisioned, and it will be the future, and it will be very very soon.
Don't hold your breath. Oh, and by the way, (sorry, Fr. McDonald, but I have to say it) by claiming that the Church isn't what Christ intended you're exactly in line with Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, and Cranmer--that is, a heretic.
Marc, I thought we'd had a troll sighting on this blog, until I clicked on the name "We Are Church".
Was that a ride!
I thought the same as Marc. If 'we are church' honestly believes what he posted, there is no way on earth he can rightly call himself Catholic.
No, Marc. It seems to be the real deal. Click on the name and follow the links (assuming they are genuine, of course).
What is “ludicrous” is that they are trying to “spin” Pope Francis their way while accusing Father McDonald of trying to “spin” Pope Francis_his_way. They even drag Pater Ignotus/Father Kavanaugh into it and try to “spin” him their way too.
Enough with the “spinning!” We will all find out in Pope Francis’s, and in God’s, good time what is in store. All our prognostications, speculations, fears, and hopes, will make not one jot of difference.
That is why I suggested what I believe Gene has dubbed the “Hamlet option.” (See April 14 post “What a Relief”).
I sincerely suggest that you ban idiots like WE Are Church and gadria. They are merely trolls on a traditional Catholic blog and have no place here. Ignotus is enough representation for modernists, apostate Priests, and the "anything goes between two consenting mammals" crowd. Seriously.
Oh, and you don't need a Bishop or a council to know heresy and call it that.
Gene, maybe We Are Church shouldn't be banned. Maybe we should seriously consider his ideas. Imagine the possibilities!
Using the new, democratic Church, I would propose:
The diocese be changed from Savannah to Macon. From there, we would elect Fr. McDonald as the first Bishop of Macon. Using this same democratic method, we could declare his blog writing as ex cathedra.
And then, we could democratically create a "Patriarch of Georgia (or maybe of the South? Patriarch of the US?) with the power and authority to excommunicate, and then proceed to democratically elect Fr. Dawid as said patriarch.
Finally, we could elect Templar as Inquisitor General of our new diocese.
Because, according to the "everyone's good" view espoused by We Are Church, no one would dare use democracy to such "extreme" ends.
OH THE GLORY OF IT ALL!
Flavius, Yeah, the "I'm Ok, You're Ok" school of theology. I have a friend and former classmate who is now a Psychiatrist. I asked hjm once about the "I,m Ok, You're Ok" stuff. He said, "Well, if I'm a therapist and you are a bag of sh.., and I say, 'I'm Ok, You're Ok,' I haven't helped you very much, have I?"
The expression "wanting to turn the clock back" is a metaphor for desiring the impossible; as the poet reminds us:
The moving finger writes, and having writ
Moves on - nor all your piety nor wit
Can call it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all thy tears wash out one word of it.
But the Pope said nothing about clocks; what he said was "ci sono voci che vogliono andare indietro". He may have been referring to SSPX; he may have been making a general observation. There is no evidence that he was criticizing those attached to the Usus Antiquior, or that he sees progress as consisting in attempting to restart the failed revolution of the 1960s and 1970s.
Poring over every single extempore remark like a Roman augur scrutinizing flocks of birds or chickens' entrails is not really helpful. It's what he does that counts. His first consistory will be interesting, not least in what he will be wearing - the cardinals will be in rochet and mozzetta, so he can hardly get away with a plain white cassock. I expect Abp Mueller to get a red hat; Francis seems to have established a good working relationship with him. If the Secretariat of State is to diminish (as it did in Pius X's reign) then the Holy Office will increase, all the more so since it now has the responsibility for investigating clerical sexual delicts regarding minors.
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