While I alternate between the use of the terms conservative and liberal for Church matters, I do think it is better to best to use orthodox and heterodox to describe the polarization in the Church that has existed since Vatican II and on steroids today because of the pontificate of the late Pope Francis, RIP.
Orthodoxy and heterodox give religious and theological significance to these two groups.
For example, a papal candidate who embraces the social teachings of the Church that go back to the 1800’s is orthodox but in political terms would be seen as liberal or progressive. Orthodox Catholics must be careful about criticizing any Catholic who takes seriously the Church’s social teachings which are in fact, in political terms, progressive or liberal. These are orthodox.
Heterodox papal candidates who want to ordain women, active gays and so-called transgendered people and start processes of blessing LGBTQ couples, triads or polygamists, which will lead to accepting these as “sacramental marriages” are progressive and liberal in the political sense but clearly heterodox if not heretical.
A papal candidate that forgoes the tradition of papal trappings can be very orthodox but appear as a liberal or progressive when if fact they aren’t.
Thus so-called traditional Catholics should be very careful about seeing papal candidates through a political lens. One can be very pastoral and have an outreach to those most in need of salvation but be very orthodox.
The heterodox don’t care about the salvation of souls, only embracing the sinner and the sin.
The heterodox don’t love sinners and can’t differentiate between the sin and the sinner. They might be traditional and conservative but they are still heterodox.
37 comments:
There are folks who will employ such labels as "liberal, conservative, traditional, modernist..." to pigeonhole our next Pope. But the overwhelming amount of Catholics will hold the Pope in high regard. The Pope will receive a tremendous outpouring of love and respect from the Holy People of God.
Not even in our age of television would a Pope perceived as having a bland personality fail to to be held in high regard throughout the Church.
As has been the case with Pop e Francis, for example, the overwhelmingly amount of God's Holy People will hold the next Pope in high regard.
God will gift us with a Pope who will teach, govern, and sanctify us in never-failing faith.
It is exciting , amazing, as well as comforting, to contemplate that Jesus Christ will speak to us via our Pope.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Unequivocally, I'm sick of the heterodox.
Too often, they are concerned only with agenda or ideology as suggested. Too often, they sound like programmed people, like those who followed Chairman Mao just lacking little red books to wave. Too often, they wave VII, not the Bible. Too often, their message is whatever they want it to be, changing as needed.
I hope at least one cardinal elector speaks with the faithful, hears their cry and considers ALL, not just the VII automaton. Between financial malfeasance, scandal and ideological pursuits, these princes do not enjoy the confidence of the people. May the Church again be Catholic, may the papacy reclaim its origins shunning the deification and papalotry it has come to encourage.
Christ Is Risen!
And hopefully God's Holy People will be excited, amazed, and comforted to consider these statements that track Catholic teaching much more than the diabetes-inducing deluge this blog is undergoing: "the head of the Church is Christ, not the Pope"; "the figure of the Pope is praised too much. One risks falling into the cult of personality"; and "the Pope is not an oracle". What "Satanic" people would tear down the holy holy holy Sanctifier the Pope with such divisive attacks???
Nick
Mark,
I again caution you against giving a pope abilities beyond those any human has. Please consider the following:
No, Jesus does not speak directly through the Pope. Catholics believe the Pope holds a unique position of authority and leadership within the Church, but he is not considered a mouthpiece of God or Jesus. The Pope's role is to interpret and proclaim the teachings of Christ, passed down through Scripture and Tradition, not to receive direct revelations or messages from Jesus.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
The Pope's Authority:
Catholics believe the Pope is the successor of Saint Peter, who was appointed as the leader of the apostles by Jesus. This tradition, which emphasizes Peter's role as the "rock" upon which the Church was built, is seen as granting the Pope a unique position of authority within the Church.
Interpretation and Teaching:
The Pope's primary role is to guide the Church in matters of faith and morals, not to receive direct messages from Jesus. He does this by interpreting Scripture, applying Church teachings, and addressing contemporary issues in light of the Gospel message.
Infallibility:
While Catholics believe the Pope possesses infallibility, meaning he cannot err in matters of faith and morals when speaking ex cathedra (officially), this is not the same as receiving direct divine messages. Infallibility protects the Church's teachings, not the Pope's personal wisdom or pronouncements.
Direct Communication with God:
Catholics believe everyone has the ability to communicate directly with God through prayer and contemplation. The Pope, like all other Catholics, is also encouraged to pray and discern God's will in his own life.
In essence, the Pope is a leader within the Church, not a conduit for direct divine communication. His role is to guide the faithful, not to deliver direct messages from Jesus.
MT Suit,
God was asleep at the switch when we got Francis, a nasty, mean-spirited old man
I am sick to death of the commentary on a religion running as if a political thing or football playoff, where spirituality never mentioned at all, the heterodox particularly wanting the political appellations as they are after only political worldly objectives and have no spiritual life at all.
Many orthodox are guilty of the same thing, their spiritual lives consist only of rote and ritual, but they at least see that what they seek to preserve is necessary for those who do seek a spiritual life. And those who are spiritual truly see the necessity for the ancient doctrines and practices if they hope for union with God.
Francis was the poster boy for the worldly heterodox, his very worst act as pope showed his utter unfitness and unworthiness for the office, where in his encylical on prayer, he told contemplative cloistered orders to get a REAL job like social work. Anyone who cannot see that the life of prayer/true love of God is the engine room of the Church powering all her other works, is not worth listening to... and anyone who actively opposes that centrality of a life of prayer/love of God IS an enemy of the religion, and Francis indeed made war on the truly contemplative orders.
We need an energetic, younger, and spiritual pope, up to the demanding task of combating and outlasting the entrenched worldly office manager drones and political activists and perverts infesting the Church who are milking it dry and leaving it only a dessicated husk.
Bob, well said. Holy, holies will soon be deluging us with more bilge
On point, Bob.
On the one hand, an older pope will go to his reward sooner, lessening what the people have to endure if that is at all like what we just endured.
On the other, I've been anxiously waiting for a post biological solution pope that's Catholic, will relegate VII to its place in history, will self police, clean house and refocus the Church on prayer, liturgy and shake off this sinful synodality talking, talking, talking.
And, the monastics are one of the ideals in God's vineyard. To say otherwise, is absurdly worldly. "Now set aside all earthly cares." Just once, I want to see traditional spirituality win, as taught by the apostles. Social work is secondary. In current form, this field hospital will never heal the patient despite the harangues and harassment provided by the generally ideologues.
Mark, that last line is so outrageous as to be profanity.
Bob,
Mark's last line is not only profanity, but heresy!
What's the Church's best kept secret? Our Social Teaching.
You mean "social teaching" as perverted by leftwing clergy and Catholics? Hey, abortion still is not healthcare, nor socially just, but you support it every time you vote Democratic!!
For the uninitiated, I would hope salvation in Jesus Christ would be first and best. To me, the spiritual and eternal are first, the temporal cannot supercede either. Of course, care of souls is important, I'm not suggesting otherwise.
Bob, ByzRus, and Nick ,
Here is an interesting take from The Federalist questioning why the "Climate Pope" did not announce in advance he did not want world leaders expanding their carbon footprints by flying to Rome for his Obsequies:
https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/29/it-takes-a-lot-of-jet-fuel-to-throw-a-funeral-for-a-climate-alarmist-pope/
Thx, TJM.
Increasingly, none of these folks who wring their hands over one cause or another have much credibility with me.
The Church should limit its political posturing and social warrioring so they don't continue looking as foolish as those listed in the article.
That is facetious, as liberal and conservative both noise them about constantly in their media. However, they all miss the point that a father and mother's first duty is to assure the needs of their own children are met, and THEN to extend care outwards.
But, despite all the professions and trades represented in each parish, how many people in those parishes live lonely lives of quiet desperation unable to afford needed auto and home repairs, adequate diet, health care, legal assistance or even get the grass cut if unable, and then die utterly anonymously, hardly rating a tsk-tsk from a single person there?...
But a priest miss a chance to drink beer and parade their social sensitivity at a black lives matter protest march, never! Or fail to pass the plate to squander resources on paid professional organizations who pay an army of staffers so they can make a living on misery, heaven forbid! Then they can all pat themselves on the back for how much they care.
Thanks ByzRus!
Typical of this late papacy's surrealism. Hitchens wrote a three paragraph piece regarding the Francis years, the last paragraph I'll leave off as it the kicker which says it all, but here are the first two followed by the link, it just fits so beautifully with the Federalist observations...
"Who am I to judge? More and more, the earth, our home, seems to resemble an immense pile of filth. We don’t need to be like rabbits. Make a mess! How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? The great majority of our sacramental marriages are null. Abortion is like hiring a hitman. God never tires of forgiving us; we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy. I don’t remember the footnote. A person who thinks only about building walls is not a Christian. All religions are willed by God. Frociaggine.
Stooping, the pope tenderly embraces a severely disfigured man. China’s underground Church has the rug pulled from beneath its feet. Abuse victims in Chile are told they are committing “calumny.” Inmates weep openly as the Holy Father visits a prison to wash their feet. The Pontifical Academy for Life is gutted and starts promoting bizarre doctrinal errors. A little child runs onstage and the pope lights up with joy. An Argentine sex abuser is helped out with a job in the Vatican treasury. Cardinal Burke is kicked out of his apartment. A half-naked figurine who may or may not be some kind of Amazonian goddess is saluted in the Vatican gardens. A number of well-connected pedophile priests are given reduced penalties after appealing to the pope for “mercy.” Alone in St. Peter’s Square, with the pandemic darkening the world, the Vicar of Christ somberly raises the Eucharist to bless the whole of humanity. A doctrine chief is appointed with a special interest in the theology of making out."
https://firstthings.com/the-last-modern-pope/
TJM - No, I mean Social Teaching as found in the "Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church."
Byz - Salvation in Jesus Christ is not a secret.
Bob - I am sorry your experience of parish life has been so awful. In all of the parishes I have served - all of them - there are youth groups that volunteer to mow lawns, men with tools who can help with home repairs, women's groups who provide meals for those in need, etc. If these don't exist in your present parish, you can step up to be the Coordinator of Parish Service Group.
K, well that Compendium has been perverted by leftwing clerics, like supporting the flow of millions of illegal aliens into the US, many with communicable diseases and criminal records, with nary a thought as to the adverse consequences to the local communities. Not surprising given how the clergy protected its own versus the victims of clerical sexual abuse. Do you think, at all?
TJM - Unlike you, I think all day. The Compendium, approved by Saint Pope John Paul II, contains the Church's teaching. And it is that teaching that you don't like.
I would ask which portions of the Compendium you find "perverted," but I fear you would suggest that hundreds and hundreds of quotes from and references to Sacred Scripture, Ecumenical Councils, Papal documents, the Catechism, the Congregation for Clergy, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Congregation for Catholic Education, Seven Pontifical Councils, thirteen Patristic authors and Saints, and the one thousand, two hundred, and thirty-two footnotes are all "suspect."
K,
Obviously you do not think because you failed to refute the two points I made about the Church’s complicity in human trafficking and the sexual scandals. Or is that your idea of “social justice?”
Hey K,
I have laid off of you for a while, not pointing out how evil your comrades in arms are, but here is a reminder. Have you no shame, have you no decency?
https://pjmedia.com/robert-spencer/2025/05/01/typical-leftist-calls-on-secret-service-to-murder-trump-oh-and-shes-teaching-your-kids-n4939426
This could explain why Dems are currently losing support from rational, normal types.
TJM - As always, I will stand with the Church and her teaching, not your blather and Trump-worship.
Fr. MJK,
How so?
Ordinarily, I neither care nor am concerned with the voting patterns of others. By making your own as well as your rationale public, I fail to see how you are so standing.
K, quit your lying. If you vote Democratic you are not standing with Church teaching, any simpleton knows that. You are full of blather and leftwing Idol Worship (Abortion, Mutilation of children a la the Transgender Cult, LGBT nonsense and allowing murdering, diseased illegal aliens to ruin the US which harms working men and women but not the so-called "Elites!"
TJM & Byz - Cite the teaching of the Church that you think I am violating.
Fr. I really haven't time for this as you are being "cute". You know that to which I am referring.
https://smgparish.org/documents/2018/10/Catechism%20of%20the%20Catholic%20Church%20on%20%20Voting.pdf
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/why-catholics-cant-be-pro-choice
Thou Shalt Not Kill! And a number of other Church Teachings on sexuality that the Demonrat Party supports! How many illegal aliens are living with you that you are supporting on your personal resources?
Hey K, I know you talk about moving to New York City, and just to show you I am not a hard hearted guy, I think you should read this from New Yorkers who have abandoned the Rotten Apple for Florida:
https://nypost.com/2025/05/02/business/ex-new-yorkers-dish-on-why-they-moved-to-florida-for-good/
Byz - No, I am not being "cute." I wanted a citation of a specific doctrine. Thank you for providing that.
In the intro under "Five Non-negotiable Issues" is this phrase: "..,and no person who rea1ly (sic) wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary to the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues."
Would that apply to a candidate who supports Invitro fertilization, including supporting the use of tax-payer dollars? "Today, President Donald J. Trump signed an Executive Order expanding access to in vitro fertilization (IVF) for Americans." https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/02/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-trump-expands-access-to-in-vitro-fertilization-ivf/
As for the second citation, I have said here frequently, I am not "pro-choice." If you say that my voting records "proves" that I am, then your vote for Trump proves that you are pro-abortion since IVF results in more embryo deaths than direct abortion. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/257066/more-human-embryos-destroyed-through-ivf-than-abortion-every-year
Lastly, the Church respects the conscience of the individual voter. It is left to the voter to determine which candidate for office is the one he/she will choose.
ByzRus,
By now you must realize K lives in a fantasyworld of the unhinged!
In the real world, people are grateful for President Trump cracking down on the evil Biden unleashed in the US via illegal aliens. Here is an example of a young lady who was widowed because of one of these “points of divinity!”
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/05/young-widow-who-lost-husband-illegal-drunk-driver/
Fr. MJK.
What to do, it is equally faulty, to my understanding, to absent oneself from the process in entirety in an attempt to find the ideal candidate.
Your voting record is principally your business. Agree, the Church does respect the conscience of the individual voter. I've tried, and perhaps not succeeded, to do as little damage as possible while exercising my rights. I have tried, and perhaps not succeeded, to be aligned with the expectations of the Church.
That said, this is a semi-public forum. Not being the official organ of a diocese, the Church at-large, a particular bishop, I suppose we are free to "speak our minds". I've tried to exercise some restraint given the elementary knowledge of some and the near child-like proclivities of others. I don't wish to avoid them where I otherwise am not a subject matter expert. With this in mind, it might be prudent for all of us, particularly those who occupy a pulpit, to focus solely on the Church and her principal mission. What do I know, however?
TJM,
Without question, to achieve normalcy as perceived by some, will take time and some pain will no doubt be felt along the way. All I'll say is I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for the time being. He has his hands full between blatant waste, lawless attitudes and laisse-faire standards, morality inclusive.
Byz - Yes, "The perfect is the enemy of the good." As the Church respects individual conscience, each voter must do the mental, conscientious "calculations," if you will, in preparing to cast a vote. I hope we all do.
The principal mission of the Church, some will say, is the "salvation of souls." I would put it as CCC 849 does, "Having been divinely sent to the nations that she might be 'the universal sacrament of salvation,' the Church, in obedience to the command of her founder and because it is demanded by her own essential universality, strives to preach the Gospel to all men."
The salvation of souls is, in my thinking, the business of the Holy Spirit. Preaching the Gospel is a far more earthy, messy, and, often, mundane pursuit. It should take place wherever the Christian finds him/herself. In today's Gospel Jesus affirmed this mission with His words to Simon Peter: "Feed my lambs, Tend my sheep, Feed my sheep." Believing is the Resurrection is meaningless until that mystery is lived among the lambs and the sheep.
Who knows, when we carry out the Lord's command, we may actually begin to smell like the sheep...
Thank you for your thoughts, Fr.
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